Why didn't Brian just release Smile as a solo album back in '67?

[Sam_BFC]

I also read an interview somewhere where Brian just describes it as their 'sto-o-ned' album or something like that haha.

[Cam Mott]

Not exactly.  No chimes or bells, what Vosse described was an alternate mix Brian played on acetate where he faded in the vocals in the break one at a time, building up the rhythm, the voices sounding “like little percussion instruments.”  This mix hopefully exists somewhere on acetate (Durrie Parks).

From the Mike Vosse article:
"He took the tail end of "Wind Chimes" - which the way it was originally recorded was, again much more beautiful than on Smiley Smile - and he had a minute and a half tag on it where he took a stand-up tack piano and a grand piano and, a track at a time, did little music box overdubs and then he went in and mixed them with different echoes on different channels into ... I've never heard anything like it.

And that is just a description of the tag we know isn't it?

[runnersdialzero]

This mix hopefully exists somewhere on acetate (Durrie Parks).

ARRRGGGHHHHH.

Has it ever been said why Van Dyke can't get to these? Absolutely mind boggling to think what could be on those acetates. Could be little of interest, but at the same time... :|

[Jason]

I think if the Durrie Parks acetates were of interest to Brian's entourage (since he owns the rights to the recordings), they would have been borrowed, catalogued, copied to tape, and returned by now. Keep in mind, these acetates might not exactly be on the shortlist of lost treasures on shellac. Not everything is as important as the Velvet Underground and Nico 1966 acetate.

And plus too, the acetates might be of negligible musical interest, not to mention sound quality.

Let's take stock of what circulates from the Smile sessions from acetate sources, in chronological order -

Prayer rough mix, 10/4/66 (1:07)
Prayer rough mix, 10/4/66 (deliberate edit of vocal phrase before the "hmmmmm") (0:58)
Cabinessence backing track, 10/11/66 (4:05)
The Old Master Painter "final" mono mix, 11/30/66 (1:08)
The Old Master Painter "part 2" mono mix, 11/30/66 (1:12)
The Old Master Painter "part 2" mono mix ("Barnshine"), 11/30/66 (0:53)
Cabinessence chorus rough mix, 12/6/66 (0:29)
Cabinessence verse/chorus/tag rough mix, 12/6/66 (later booted in two-track binaural stereo from tape source) (2:25)
Child Is Father of the Man tag/bridge/chorus rough mix, 12/6/66 (1:55)
Child Is Father of the Man tag/chorus/bridge/chorus rough mix, 12/6/66 (1:41)
Barnyard mono mix, 12/13/66 (1:02)
Do You Like Worms parts 1-3 rough mix, 12/21/66 (different vocal parts during Hawaiian section) (3:36)
Heroes and Villains verse rough mix, 12/22/66 (Brian lead vocal, heavily reverbed) (0:52)
Cabinessence chorus/tag rough mix, 12/27/66 (later booted in two-track binaural stereo from tape source) (1:46)
Cabinessence "finished" verse/chorus/verse/chorus/tag mix, 12/27/66 (Carl's reference for the 20/20 version) (3:22)
Heroes and Villains "Bicycle Rider" mono mix, 1/5/67 (features prevalent "what have you done" vocals) (0:32)
Heroes and Villains "Bicycle Rider" mono mix, 1/5/67 (features less prevalent "what have you done" vocals) (0:31)

[runnersdialzero]

I think if the Durrie Parks acetates were of interest to Brian's entourage (since he owns the rights to the recordings), they would have been borrowed, catalogued, copied to tape, and returned by now. Keep in mind, these acetates might not exactly be on the shortlist of lost treasures on shellac.

Still - I would bet that if this had been done yet, it would have been done after 93 when the Good Vibrations box came out. No mention has been made of them being recovered etc. and we certainly haven't heard anything.

[OneEar/OneEye]

Is there any idea of how many of these acetates exist?  Durrie Parks has some apparently, Bruce has said he has one at least, and I would think Brian would have some, or one of the other band members possibly. 

[hypehat]

Hasn't Mark said that they have catalogued every single piece of Smile material? I remember reading that here last year. Does that render the Durrie acetates redundant?

[BJL]

I wonder, were some key treasure to be found, on say the durrie parks acetates, would those in the know say anything about it?  or would they just make a few safeties and bide their time until the long awaited day when it can be released officially? 

[Mike's Beard]

Thanks for the link.  Brian sorta tells us alot without actually saying too much if you know what I mean.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

Thanks for the link.  Brian sorta tells us alot without actually saying too much if you know what I mean.

I know. He sorta skims over the fact that he had just wasted hundreds of thousands of dollars and countless recording sessions just to 'junk it'.

[grillo]

Thanks for the link.  Brian sorta tells us alot without actually saying too much if you know what I mean.

I know. He sorta skims over the fact that he had just wasted hundreds of thousands of dollars and countless recording sessions just to 'junk it'.

I always thought that "Brian' sounded a lot like Carl on this recording. I think we even covered that on this board, but I'll be damned if I can remember who we decided it really was.

[TheLazenby]

Something that very much intrigues me... doesn't one of the 'Smile's on Andrew Doe's unreleased albums page include a 12-minute "Heroes and Villains"?  What the heck would make up a 12-minute version of that??

I mean, I can see ten minutes (my own preferred edit, combining the single version, the Cantina "part 1", the Bicycle Rider interlude, and "part 2" comes out to ten and a half minutes, IIRC), but there's still a bit missing...

[XY]

And that is just a description of the tag we know isn't it?

I don't know. Music box overdubs? Is that just the piano part without any further sounds? I expected something like the bells from that unconnected H&V intro session.

[Fall Breaks]

Something that very much intrigues me... doesn't one of the 'Smile's on Andrew Doe's unreleased albums page include a 12-minute "Heroes and Villains"?  What the heck would make up a 12-minute version of that??

I mean, I can see ten minutes (my own preferred edit, combining the single version, the Cantina "part 1", the Bicycle Rider interlude, and "part 2" comes out to ten and a half minutes, IIRC), but there's still a bit missing...

Maybe something that I dreamed about the other night? A version that uses the first verse ("I've been..." --> "heroes and villains") as a recurring chorus! It never repeated one performance, though, but used the Smiley version, the Cantina version and even the live versions from In Concert and the Endless Harmony soundtrack. It worked well in the dream, and I remember thinking that they must have changed the speed and/or the key (maybe with that apparatus used on "She's Goin' Bald"?) to make it all go together.

[tomstuart]

Why didn't Brian just release SMiLE as a solo record? Because, as we discovered in 2004, it'd be nowhere near as good without the rest of the Beach Boys vocal contributions...

I like you. A lot.

Thanks!

[Bicyclerider]

Hasn't Mark said that they have catalogued every single piece of Smile material? I remember reading that here last year. Does that render the Durrie acetates redundant?

No, that means they've catalogued every piece of Smile material still existing in the Beach Boys tapevault.  There's lots of tapes missing and presumably there are actetates that have material on them from the missing tapes - we just don't know what's on the acetates out there.

[Cam Mott]

He was dissatisfied with Wonderful, rerecording it twice (January and April, both incomplete), and he was still tinkering with Heroes despite the fabled five to six minute mix that was done and played by Mike to a reporter.  And Old Master Painter had been cannibalized to finish Heroes, so was now without a third section/ending.

Here is my take for what it's worth [nothin']:

1. That January version of Wonderful was a b-side H&V single version to replace the H&V single Part 2 b-side, discontinued when H&V Part 2 was later re-instated to the H&V single b-side. April version another possibility fo the b-side of a proposed post-SMiLE Vt single.

2. Anything after the March H&V wasn't SMiLE era.

3. The third section of OMP was borrowed for the short-lived cantina version of the H&V single but a different version of it was soon recorded for the b-side H&V Part 2 which presumably left OMP intact if it was ever the plan to not have that ending on the OMP in the album and also on the H&V single.

The rest I can't say but I have a feeling that they were far enough along that Brian felt comfortable with being able to finish and mix down an album in short order, if many/most of the tracks hadn't already been so mixed, and so turned almost all his attention to the H&V single.

What do you think?

[The Shift]

Maybe something that I dreamed about the other night? A version that uses the first verse ("I've been..." --> "heroes and villains") as a recurring chorus! It never repeated one performance, though, but used the Smiley version, the Cantina version and even the live versions from In Concert and the Endless Harmony soundtrack. It worked well in the dream, and I remember thinking that they must have changed the speed and/or the key (maybe with that apparatus used on "She's Goin' Bald"?) to make it all go together.

Sounds like you fell asleep with your headphones on and the iPod playing all your fave versions of "Heroes.." on repeat!!

[Bicyclerider]

He was dissatisfied with Wonderful, rerecording it twice (January and April, both incomplete), and he was still tinkering with Heroes despite the fabled five to six minute mix that was done and played by Mike to a reporter.  And Old Master Painter had been cannibalized to finish Heroes, so was now without a third section/ending.

Here is my take for what it's worth [nothin']:

1. That January version of Wonderful was a b-side H&V single version to replace the H&V single Part 2 b-side, discontinued when H&V Part 2 was later re-instated to the H&V single b-side. April version another possibility fo the b-side of a proposed post-SMiLE Vt single.

2. Anything after the March H&V wasn't SMiLE era.

3. The third section of OMP was borrowed for the short-lived cantina version of the H&V single but a different version of it was soon recorded for the b-side H&V Part 2 which presumably left OMP intact if it was ever the plan to not have that ending on the OMP in the album and also on the H&V single.

The rest I can't say but I have a feeling that they were far enough along that Brian felt comfortable with being able to finish and mix down an album in short order, if many/most of the tracks hadn't already been so mixed, and so turned almost all his attention to the H&V single.

What do you think?

Correct on the reworkings of Wonderful - but the fact that he was reworking it shows he wasn't satisfied with the first version (or why not just use it for the Bside of Heroes or Vegetables?).

If the rerecord of the fade was for the Bside of Heroes, what would be the fade for the Aside?  If he kept the cantina mix as the A side, then both would fade with the OMP fade, but a different mix (cantina) and different version (Bside).  I would think that would preclude using the same fade a third time with OMP.  If he reworked the Aside, we don't have any clear evidence what he would have used as a fade, it might be possible that he would have used it twice, once with OMP and once with the Heroes Bside, but then again he may have concluded that OMP was now unfinished and another "problem" track along with the elements.

Disagree that the April Vegetables sessions weren't Smile era sessions, but that's just a personal preference on how you want to define what is Smile and what is post Smile.  The Derek Taylor Smile is junked quote isn't until May, correct?

[Cam Mott]

Correct on the reworkings of Wonderful - but the fact that he was reworking it shows he wasn't satisfied with the first version (or why not just use it for the Bside of Heroes or Vegetables?).

If the rerecord of the fade was for the Bside of Heroes, what would be the fade for the Aside?  If he kept the cantina mix as the A side, then both would fade with the OMP fade, but a different mix (cantina) and different version (Bside).  I would think that would preclude using the same fade a third time with OMP.  If he reworked the Aside, we don't have any clear evidence what he would have used as a fade, it might be possible that he would have used it twice, once with OMP and once with the Heroes Bside, but then again he may have concluded that OMP was now unfinished and another "problem" track along with the elements.

Disagree that the April Vegetables sessions weren't Smile era sessions, but that's just a personal preference on how you want to define what is Smile and what is post Smile.  The Derek Taylor Smile is junked quote isn't until May, correct?

It might have meant he was making a special single-only version of Wonderful, wasn't there precedent that the album version wasn't always the single version? Also he expressed concern about giving too much away about SMiLE with the single. Not sure.

Part 1 was reworked and longer than the cantina version and several Part 1 sessions immediately followed the cantina version so I am making the assumption that the cantina version was probably no longer intake. My assumption is the H&V a-side would no longer have that fade as it had moved to the Part 2 b-side. What the known Part 2 b-side tracks have in common is they reference the non-H&V album tracks, so in my mind the reworked OMP/cantina fade became a Part 2 reference to OMP instead of the H&V Part 1 fade.

Yes, an announcement was published on May 6, in an article written by May 2, that it had already been junked. When had it previously been junked is the interesting question. Taylor is already reporting in March the problems with the single and album, they are done, then not done, delayed, then not delayed, withheld , then not withheld, etc.. In the third week of April Taylor reveals that Brian has deep problems with the very nature of the material, this is after the April Vt. So Vt could still fall under SMiLE but I think SMiLE was already junked.  I base that on the April change of the title of Vt from the SMiLE title of "Vega-Tables" to the SS title "Vegetables" for one. The natural break of activity after early March coinciding with the reporting of uncertainty around the trial and the future of the SMiLE album and single for another. Thirdly, BW and Marilyn have associated the buying of the Bellagio house with following the junking of SMiLE and they had a deed for that house on March 28 and NME reported they were already moving in by April 3.