Brian on the Smile album after it collapsed

[MBE]

Brian sounded pretty great in 1970. I think the Surf's Up remake was done in 1971 anyway and if Won't You Tell Me is any indication he still could have nailed it. Don't You Just Know It imho was just a Baker's Man style vocal. In other words just sloppy fun. Even"Hard Time" from 1974 has Brian sounding pretty darn good. From 1975 on I'm no fan of Brian's voice but before then he was fantastic. One funny thing is that I don't find the Inside Pop version of Surf's Up to be that solid vocally. That one is too raw for me. Conversely on the studio demo from 1966 he sounds amazing.

[runnersdialzero]

Listening to Brian's falsetto in the early 70's, "Awake" etc..., I would even speculate that he would've sung it better in 1970 than on the 66 demos. But, he probably wasn't involved with his whole heart, too nervous and uninterested.

You nailed it. I'd be willing to bet Brian's 71 vocal for "Surf's Up" would floor any of us - I'd bet it was great. He was still more than capable. But to Brian? Considering the history of the song and the abandoned project it was part of, his very high standards of himself, and everything you just said, it just couldn't be pulled off. Like someone else said, too, it could have easily been an attempt to sabatoge it.

So sad that this one was never "properly" finished. The 71 version is great, but lawdy lawdy, what could have been...?

As far as the end of the 71 version, I'm pretty sure it's been well documented that it was totally Brian's doing. I always took it as a sort of, "Well, if you guys are gonna do this regardless of my wishes, let's do it right." I think the reprisal of "Child" was always meant to be there in one form or another. Also well documented is that it's Al doing the lead "A children's song..." vocal, not a sped up Brian.

[Andrew G. Doe]

yup. I asked Stephen D. awhile back about this and he said it was Brian:

Hi Stephen,
Sorry if you've answered this before, but who sang the "A Children's Song" lyric at the end of Surf's Up in 1971? I've always assumed it was Brian. Badman's book mentions he arranged the final part, but doesn't say whether he actually sang that tag.

Thanks!

COMMENT:  Well, if you had read my book, Recording The Beach Boys, you would find on page 44 a detailed recollection of that part of the sessions for Surfs Up and the story of how BRIAN added the Children's Song line to the end of the song.  ~swd

Be that as it may... when the vocal tracks are isolated out, it's very obviously Alan, something he confirmed when questioned directly about it. FWIW I always heard it as Alan from the very first time I heard the song.

[Sam_BFC]

In saying Brian added the line to the song, does he actually mean he did this directly by singing it or just that he dictated it be added?

[pixletwin]

In saying Brian added the line to the song, does he actually mean he did this directly by singing it or just that he dictated it be added?

Reading Stephen's quote it reads to me as though he isreferring to Brian supplying the lyrics and direction.. NOT the actual performance.

[Andrew G. Doe]

In saying Brian added the line to the song, does he actually mean he did this directly by singing it or just that he dictated it be added?

Reading Stephen's quote it reads to me as though he isreferring to Brian supplying the lyrics and direction.. NOT the actual performance.

In the book, Steve states that Brian sang those lines.

[TdHabib]

Bear in mind there was actually another line that wasn't used on the coda: "The father's life is done, and the children carry on."

[Sheriff John Stone]

One thing I always found interesting was Brian's dwindling use of The Wrecking Crew after the collapse of SMiLE. Did the construction of his home studio have anything to do with that? I mean, could you invite those guys over to your house to record? Did Brian do that? Could the home studio accomodate many musicians?

Brian's production got simpler and simpler with Smiley Smile, then Wild Honey, and finally Friends. You could even include his Surf Up's stuff into that. It has been written in books that this was a conscious attempt to go with the simpler "stripped" production? Was it a conscious choice, or was it because he didn't have access to The Wrecking Crew, for whatever reason?

[variable2]

One thing I always found interesting was Brian's dwindling use of The Wrecking Crew after the collapse of SMiLE. Did the construction of his home studio have anything to do with that? I mean, could you invite those guys over to your house to record? Did Brian do that? Could the home studio accomodate many musicians?

Brian's production got simpler and simpler with Smiley Smile, then Wild Honey, and finally Friends. You could even include his Surf Up's stuff into that. It has been written in books that this was a conscious attempt to go with the simpler "stripped" production? Was it a conscious choice, or was it because he didn't have access to The Wrecking Crew, for whatever reason?

he just got tired of making every song a big production with a lot of instrumentation

[Sheriff John Stone]

One thing I always found interesting was Brian's dwindling use of The Wrecking Crew after the collapse of SMiLE. Did the construction of his home studio have anything to do with that? I mean, could you invite those guys over to your house to record? Did Brian do that? Could the home studio accomodate many musicians?

Brian's production got simpler and simpler with Smiley Smile, then Wild Honey, and finally Friends. You could even include his Surf Up's stuff into that. It has been written in books that this was a conscious attempt to go with the simpler "stripped" production? Was it a conscious choice, or was it because he didn't have access to The Wrecking Crew, for whatever reason?

he just got tired of making every song a big production with a lot of instrumentation

And I've often wondered why (thinking out loud)....

First, Brian was so successful with those productions - commercially and critically. Second, when you heard him in the studio with those guys, he appeared to be motivated and driven by THEIR creativity and musicianship. And thirdly, I think Brian genuinely liked the guys and they him.

[Jay]

This has also puzzled me. If you document the Smiley Smile through Friends period, it becomes obvious just how quickly Brian lost interest. It's not that he just long interest, but how fast the process was.

[MBE]

This has also puzzled me. If you document the Smiley Smile through Friends period, it becomes obvious just how quickly Brian lost interest. It's not that he just long interest, but how fast the process was.

I think Brian enjoyed being a Beach Boy on those three albums. Sunflower as well. I think he was working with the other band members because this was a period of genuine unity and the whole band was starting to really come into their own. I think Brian enjoyed being a part of the band and not having to lead it all the time.

What is interesting is the way his interest ran hot and cold during the 20/20, Surf's Up, and Spring sessions. What he did on those ranks among his best work but he couldn't be counted on to be there. By So Tough and Holland he was more obviously troubled but even then when he showed up it was good music.

[TdHabib]

As far as I know Brian was HEAVILY involved in "Friends," it was just cool out music. And it's just a beautiful album

[Andrew G. Doe]

What is interesting is the way his interest ran hot and cold during the 20/20, Surf's Up, and Spring sessions. What he did on those ranks among his best work but he couldn't be counted on to be there. By So Tough and Holland he was more obviously troubled but even then when he showed up it was good music.

I stand to be corrected, but to my current knowledge, the song on CATP Brian was most heavily involved with (including performing) was "He Come Down".

[Dancing Bear]

I think Brian was the main creator behind every song in Friends, except for the Dennis' tracks and (maybe) the Diamond Head jam. But this time I guess he brought the basics of the songs to the studio and the rest of the group helped him finishing and producing them. Like someone said, he had stopped finishing things. At that point in time, I don't know if it was more a problem to concentrate or carry alone the load, than lacking interest in the project. But his hands are all over Friends.

[Jason]

I stand to be corrected, but to my current knowledge, the song on CATP Brian was most heavily involved with (including performing) was "He Come Down".

Didn't Brian produce some sessions for You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone before Carl came in and fleshed out the work? If I remember correctly, the gruff backing vocal on that was Brian as well. He Come Down is the obvious one, you can hear him all over the backing vocals. The tune is presumably his too, with Al and Michael writing the lyrics. Apparently he's in the backing vocals on Marcella but I can't hear him.

[Sheriff John Stone]

This has also puzzled me. If you document the Smiley Smile through Friends period, it becomes obvious just how quickly Brian lost interest. It's not that he just long interest, but how fast the process was.

I think Brian enjoyed being a Beach Boy on those three albums. Sunflower as well. I think he was working with the other band members because this was a period of genuine unity and the whole band was starting to really come into their own. I think Brian enjoyed being a part of the band and not having to lead it all the time.

 

And, I always found that disheartening. Oh, not because Brian was "enjoying" himself working with the others and not having to lead, but because I believe this was the first step into his decline.

Brian had long since stopped touring, the years of churning out multiple albums per year appeared to be passing - basically Brian had a lot of time on his hands. When I add up the total minutes of new music that Brian was releasing during some of those years, from somebody as prolific as Brian, well, I just think opportunities were missed; he was still so young relatively speaking....

[MBE]

What is interesting is the way his interest ran hot and cold during the 20/20, Surf's Up, and Spring sessions. What he did on those ranks among his best work but he couldn't be counted on to be there. By So Tough and Holland he was more obviously troubled but even then when he showed up it was good music.

I stand to be corrected, but to my current knowledge, the song on CATP Brian was most heavily involved with (including performing) was "He Come Down".

He Came Down has grown on me over time and yes Brian seems to have been a big part of it. You can hear him sing on You Need A Mess Of Help and Marcella. Maybe Cuddle Up. I know Bruce said he watched Brian produce You Need A Mess Of Help in a 1972 review he did for the album.

[MBE]

This has also puzzled me. If you document the Smiley Smile through Friends period, it becomes obvious just how quickly Brian lost interest. It's not that he just long interest, but how fast the process was.

I think Brian enjoyed being a Beach Boy on those three albums. Sunflower as well. I think he was working with the other band members because this was a period of genuine unity and the whole band was starting to really come into their own. I think Brian enjoyed being a part of the band and not having to lead it all the time.

 

And, I always found that disheartening. Oh, not because Brian was "enjoying" himself working with the others and not having to lead, but because I believe this was the first step into his decline.

Brian had long since stopped touring, the years of churning out multiple albums per year appeared to be passing - basically Brian had a lot of time on his hands. When I add up the total minutes of new music that Brian was releasing during some of those years, from somebody as prolific as Brian, well, I just think opportunities were missed; he was still so young relatively speaking....

Well I look at it this way. I like the group sounds of the period and some of my favorite Brian stuff was recorded between 1967-74. Do I wish Brian had done more before his voice gave out? Of course but I'm happy for what I have and also again must stress how much I love that mid period music from him and the others.

[Jim V.]

So Andrew, you're saying that Brian contributed more to "He Come Down" than "You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone" and "Marcella"? That's kinda weird.

And a little bit more off topic, what did he do vocally and/or instrumentally on Holland and L.A.?

On Holland, I'm pretty sure he played most instruments on Funky Pretty and wrote Sail On Sailor but didn't play on nor sang on the finished version. And then there was his goofy Magic Transistor thing on the extra EP.

And then on L.A., did he do anything at all? If I remember correctly, on Good Timin' he played piano possibly? But no vocals?  And I guess thats it. His "contributions" to the album were Good Timin' and Shortnin' Bread but he wasn't on Shortnin' Bread vocally or instrumentally right?

Sorry to take this off track, but I just wanna see if I got this stuff right.

[adamghost]

So Andrew, you're saying that Brian contributed more to "He Come Down" than "You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone" and "Marcella"? That's kinda weird.

And a little bit more off topic, what did he do vocally and/or instrumentally on Holland and L.A.?

On Holland, I'm pretty sure he played most instruments on Funky Pretty and wrote Sail On Sailor but didn't play on nor sang on the finished version. And then there was his goofy Magic Transistor thing on the extra EP.

And then on L.A., did he do anything at all? If I remember correctly, on Good Timin' he played piano possibly? But no vocals?  And I guess thats it. His "contributions" to the album were Good Timin' and Shortnin' Bread but he wasn't on Shortnin' Bread vocally or instrumentally right?

Sorry to take this off track, but I just wanna see if I got this stuff right.

Not at all man, and I'm chiming in here because we hashed a lot of this stuff out in the vocal credits thread last year and I just went back and looked at the information yesterday and it's fresh in my mind.

On CATP, there was a long discussion about whether one of the gruff vocals was Brian and the conclusion was that there were at least three identifiable Carl vocals on there and possibly one more person way back in the mix who we couldn't identify.  Byron Preiss' book suggested Brian played synthesizer and percussion on "Marcella," though other than the opening chord I don't remember there actually being any synthesizer on that one. 

I don't know about HOLLAND but the only Brian involvement I'm aware of on the released album are the bulk of "Funky Pretty," some of the keyboards on "Fairy Tale" and the backing vocal on "California."

L.A. we also hashed this question out:  we've confirmed that Brian IS singing on "Angel Come Home."  We've confirmed that he is NOT on "Here Comes The Night," "Baby Blue," or "Goin' South."  He is probably not on "Sumahama" based on a comment Carl made in an interview indicating that was just Carl and Bruce, and it may be that he is not on "Shortenin' Bread" either -- there's conflicting information on that one.  The consensus was that Brian played piano on "Good Timin'" but did not sing on it.  That leaves "Love Surrounds Me", "Full Sail" and "Lady Lynda."  I had access to vocals-only mixes for the CWF foundation show to arrange "Sail" for Carnie and Wendy and based on that I'm pretty certain Brian is not on that one, though Geoffrey Cushing-Murray and Dennis may possibly be (though on the balance I doubt it in Dennis' case).  It's not out of the question that he's on the other two songs, particularly as "Lynda" has many vocal parts that IIRC predate the L.A. sessions.

The bottom line is we only know for sure that Brian sings on "Angel Come Home," and he probably plays piano on "Good Timin'".  But that may be it.

[c-man]

One thing I always found interesting was Brian's dwindling use of The Wrecking Crew after the collapse of SMiLE. Did the construction of his home studio have anything to do with that? I mean, could you invite those guys over to your house to record? Did Brian do that? Could the home studio accomodate many musicians?

Brian's production got simpler and simpler with Smiley Smile, then Wild Honey, and finally Friends. You could even include his Surf Up's stuff into that. It has been written in books that this was a conscious attempt to go with the simpler "stripped" production? Was it a conscious choice, or was it because he didn't have access to The Wrecking Crew, for whatever reason?

Brian used the "Crew" heavily on "Friends", "20/20" and "Sunflower".  In fact, so did the other Boys.  Just not Carol Kaye.  

[c-man]

So Andrew, you're saying that Brian contributed more to "He Come Down" than "You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone" and "Marcella"? That's kinda weird.

And a little bit more off topic, what did he do vocally and/or instrumentally on Holland and L.A.?

On Holland, I'm pretty sure he played most instruments on Funky Pretty and wrote Sail On Sailor but didn't play on nor sang on the finished version. And then there was his goofy Magic Transistor thing on the extra EP.

And then on L.A., did he do anything at all? If I remember correctly, on Good Timin' he played piano possibly? But no vocals?  And I guess thats it. His "contributions" to the album were Good Timin' and Shortnin' Bread but he wasn't on Shortnin' Bread vocally or instrumentally right?

Sorry to take this off track, but I just wanna see if I got this stuff right.

Not at all man, and I'm chiming in here because we hashed a lot of this stuff out in the vocal credits thread last year and I just went back and looked at the information yesterday and it's fresh in my mind.

On CATP, there was a long discussion about whether one of the gruff vocals was Brian and the conclusion was that there were at least three identifiable Carl vocals on there and possibly one more person way back in the mix who we couldn't identify.  Byron Preiss' book suggested Brian played synthesizer and percussion on "Marcella," though other than the opening chord I don't remember there actually being any synthesizer on that one. 

I don't know about HOLLAND but the only Brian involvement I'm aware of on the released album are the bulk of "Funky Pretty," some of the keyboards on "Fairy Tale" and the backing vocal on "California."

L.A. we also hashed this question out:  we've confirmed that Brian IS singing on "Angel Come Home."  We've confirmed that he is NOT on "Here Comes The Night," "Baby Blue," or "Goin' South."  He is probably not on "Sumahama" based on a comment Carl made in an interview indicating that was just Carl and Bruce, and it may be that he is not on "Shortenin' Bread" either -- there's conflicting information on that one.  The consensus was that Brian played piano on "Good Timin'" but did not sing on it.  That leaves "Love Surrounds Me", "Full Sail" and "Lady Lynda."  I had access to vocals-only mixes for the CWF foundation show to arrange "Sail" for Carnie and Wendy and based on that I'm pretty certain Brian is not on that one, though Geoffrey Cushing-Murray and Dennis may possibly be (though on the balance I doubt it in Dennis' case).  It's not out of the question that he's on the other two songs, particularly as "Lynda" has many vocal parts that IIRC predate the L.A. sessions.

The bottom line is we only know for sure that Brian sings on "Angel Come Home," and he probably plays piano on "Good Timin'".  But that may be it.

Brian's on the "Shortenin' Bread" track (piano and Moog).  That basic track was recorded months before the album's vocal sessions.  Also, I think he's on "Baby Blue", just not the high falsetto.  I think he sings a lower part in the middle.  Those vocals were apparently cut at Criteria in Miami.  The tag vocals were presumably added back in L.A. later.

[Andrew G. Doe]

So Andrew, you're saying that Brian contributed more to "He Come Down" than "You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone" and "Marcella"? That's kinda weird.

That's my current understanding.

[TdHabib]

Ron Altbach on "Lady Lynda" from a youtube comment:

I co-wrote this with Al. We wrote it in Big Sur in 1976 The only BBoys on the vocals are Al and Mike. Bobby Figueroa, Eddie Carter, Eddie Tuleja and I were the back-up vocals. The electric wurlitzer piano was originally the sound my band King Harvest used on Dancing in the Moonlight. So, yes, this was in the same kind of non-bboys production that Al and I did on MIU. And we had a great time doing it. Ron Altbach

I don't know if he's referring to the final version, though.