Good Timin vocals

[Jon Stebbins]

Stebbins, you say Carl wasn't in a condition to complete a record in '79. Why? I thought he was doing much better in '79 than '78?

Most of L.A. Light was recorded in '78. BTW... I agree with what you said about Angel and LSM.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'd agree with that, Dr UNH.

But in hindsight, for all of the garbage that was released on the late '70s albums, just imagine if they had waited and released the best songs off of Adult/Child, MIU, LA, and Keepin' The Summer Alive as one or two single LPs.

They were rushing them out and praying for a hit, it seems to me.

Not exactly - Adult/Child was never released, M.I.U. was released 18 months after Love You, and for the last two albums you name they had CBS leaning on them very heavily.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Carl was still reeling from his addictions in 1979. Heroin is a tricky thing to kick, and Carl had a serious problem with it for years.

Carl was heroin-clean in 1979: he'd hit rock-bottom on the Jan/Feb 1978 NZ/Oz tour and that was his wake-up call (it's possible he saw the footage). May have still had an alcohol problem, but he was off the hard stuff.

[Jon Stebbins]

Personally I think that either Carl or Dennis were much better producers than Bruce but neither were in any condition to complete a record in '79, Brian was even worse.

And, that continues to fascinate or mystify me. That period, 1974 - 1981 (or to 1983) found Brian, Dennis, and Carl in such bad shape. There was substance abuse, mental illness, financial irresponsibility, divorce, inter-group fighting, some poor performance in the studio, and just a basic deterioration.

But why? The Beach Boys were given a second chance in 1974, a second chance that very few rock bands are given. It brought a lot of (new) money, a lot of fame, and a chance to reaffirm their legend, their status, and their reputation(s). But they blew it. A look back at that period shows one debacle after another, one tragedy after another. As fans looking back with 20/20 hindsight, it's hard to figure out why. They had it all.

Many historians point to Murry's death as a real turning point. I suppose there's some truth to that. But that has to be other reasons why they couldn't stay healthy, stay creative, even stay married. I mean, they lost it all - again. It's as if they learned nothing from their decline in the late 60's/early 70's. Anyone have any thoughts?

To be fair...1974 through mid 1977 was Dennis' most productive and prolific time. And he was relatively straight in '74 and '75 as well...and physically healthy throughout '76. The bad stuff kicked in mid '77 for him.

[lance]

I know there's been some discussion before regarding the falsetto 'Surfer Girl' part in L.A., with some people saying it was Carl, some Brian, some Bruce...but I wonder if it wasn't Terry Melcher. It seems that when I hear those old RipChords records his voice has a similar timbre to the Good timin' vocal.


But then it's probably Figuroa.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I know there's been some discussion before regarding the falsetto 'Surfer Girl' part in L.A., with some people saying it was Carl, some Brian, some Bruce...but I wonder if it wasn't Terry Melcher. It seems that when I hear those old RipChords records his voice has a similar timbre to the Good timin' vocal.

Don't think Melcher was involved back then - correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he appear on the scene in 1984 ?

[lance]

Well, as a producer, sure. But he had sort of been 'on the scene' since the early sixties.
The hypothetical scenario I'm envisioning is him just singing an uncredited cameo on the one song, nothing more. But I don't know. It's just that I think it sounds more like him than Carl, Bruce or Brian. Nothing more, no other 'evidence' than my own ears, which might be wrong.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Personally I think that either Carl or Dennis were much better producers than Bruce but neither were in any condition to complete a record in '79, Brian was even worse.

And, that continues to fascinate or mystify me. That period, 1974 - 1981 (or to 1983) found Brian, Dennis, and Carl in such bad shape. There was substance abuse, mental illness, financial irresponsibility, divorce, inter-group fighting, some poor performance in the studio, and just a basic deterioration.

But why? The Beach Boys were given a second chance in 1974, a second chance that very few rock bands are given. It brought a lot of (new) money, a lot of fame, and a chance to reaffirm their legend, their status, and their reputation(s). But they blew it. A look back at that period shows one debacle after another, one tragedy after another. As fans looking back with 20/20 hindsight, it's hard to figure out why. They had it all.

Many historians point to Murry's death as a real turning point. I suppose there's some truth to that. But that has to be other reasons why they couldn't stay healthy, stay creative, even stay married. I mean, they lost it all - again. It's as if they learned nothing from their decline in the late 60's/early 70's. Anyone have any thoughts?

To be fair...1974 through mid 1977 was Dennis' most productive and prolific time. And he was relatively straight in '74 and '75 as well...and physically healthy throughout '76. The bad stuff kicked in mid '77 for him.

And why do you think that was, Jon? Instead of POB being a "taking of", a starting point, a success to be built on, it was basically down hill from there. As far as the band was concerned, Dennis didn't have the pressures or responsibilities that Brian, Carl, and even Mike had. Why couldn't Dennis be.....happy?

EDIT: I remember the day Dennis died, and a Beach Boys' buddy of mine came over to the house, and we got to talking about Dennis. And, I remember this friend saying, "I could never figure Dennis out. He had life by the balls. He had loving wives, kids, adoring fans, talent, and looked great. But it wasn't enough." I realize that statement, in retrospect, was naive, and my friend meant no disrespect by it. But, still, I often think about that statement, and, periodically, I will remind my friend that he made it. Because, in some ways, it does make you wonder....

[Jason]

Carl was heroin-clean in 1979: he'd hit rock-bottom on the Jan/Feb 1978 NZ/Oz tour and that was his wake-up call (it's possible he saw the footage). May have still had an alcohol problem, but he was off the hard stuff.

Yeah, he had kicked the heroin in 1978 but he was still reeling from the effects well into 1979. The alcohol didn't help either.

[Rocker]

Thanks. Also, the LA Light Album is said to be produced by Bruce Johnston, but I also read that it was mostly Carl and Shilling (spell?)? What did Bruce do, and what did Carl and S do?

Good Timin is mostly produced by Jim Guercio, Baby Blue and Love Surrounds Me are mostly produced by Dennis, Carl's songs are mostly produced by Carl(Jerry Schilling was a manager and never a producer) Bruce pulled the rest of L.A. Light together and sweetened and polished the aforementioned tracks to their L.A. Light completion. Personally I think that either Carl or Dennis were much better producers than Bruce but neither were in any condition to complete a record in '79, Brian was even worse. Bruce had sobriety on his side.

Bruce mentioned in an interview just before L.A.'s release that Al did most of tzhe production on "Lady Lynda" and that he should be given credit for it, if it would become a hit (which interestingly happened in England).
I agree with you guys, that the production on the album sounds very dead. Same goes for KTSA. Never been a fan of Bruce's productions to tell you the truth.

[TdHabib]

BTW, on the Dennis thing about '74-'77 being his freshest period, I agree. Look at the pictures, he looks better than ever in the '74-'75 ones, still very good in the 1976 pictures and then in '77 when he shaved the beard off. And it's hilarious because I was listening to a few boots the other day of '73-'75 BB concerts and you can totally tell the difference in Dennis' demeanor. In '73 he's charming and talkative, but clearly feeling no pain. In '74 and the Beachago concert I have, he's still charming and talkative, but it's well structured, well formed sentences 

Also, just to share a nugget from the Hartford concert, the audiences is smoking...ahem...substances quite heavily (Carl yelling out jokingly "I smell something's burning!") and Dennis adds into a blank void "Anything but the head of Ed Carter!"

[urbanite]

I'm kind of shocked, I never heard before that Carl was on heroin.  That's serious, life-destroying drug use.  I guess Brian's deterioration from substances wasn't enough to make him stay away from the stuff.  Was Al Jardine ever into drugs or other vices.  He seems the cleanest of the bunch from what little I know.

[Jason]

Michael and Al both smoked pot, although Michael used it more than Al. Blondie also apparently had a cocaine addiction.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Michael and Al both smoked pot, although Michael used it more than Al. Blondie also apparently had a cocaine addiction.

Yeah, I remember reading that Mike and Al both experimented a bit in the late 60s. Blondie doesn't suprise me. What about Ricky Fataar and Bill Hinche?

[Jon Stebbins]

Personally I think that either Carl or Dennis were much better producers than Bruce but neither were in any condition to complete a record in '79, Brian was even worse.

And, that continues to fascinate or mystify me. That period, 1974 - 1981 (or to 1983) found Brian, Dennis, and Carl in such bad shape. There was substance abuse, mental illness, financial irresponsibility, divorce, inter-group fighting, some poor performance in the studio, and just a basic deterioration.

But why? The Beach Boys were given a second chance in 1974, a second chance that very few rock bands are given. It brought a lot of (new) money, a lot of fame, and a chance to reaffirm their legend, their status, and their reputation(s). But they blew it. A look back at that period shows one debacle after another, one tragedy after another. As fans looking back with 20/20 hindsight, it's hard to figure out why. They had it all.

Many historians point to Murry's death as a real turning point. I suppose there's some truth to that. But that has to be other reasons why they couldn't stay healthy, stay creative, even stay married. I mean, they lost it all - again. It's as if they learned nothing from their decline in the late 60's/early 70's. Anyone have any thoughts?

To be fair...1974 through mid 1977 was Dennis' most productive and prolific time. And he was relatively straight in '74 and '75 as well...and physically healthy throughout '76. The bad stuff kicked in mid '77 for him.

And why do you think that was, Jon? Instead of POB being a "taking of", a starting point, a success to be built on, it was basically down hill from there. As far as the band was concerned, Dennis didn't have the pressures or responsibilities that Brian, Carl, and even Mike had. Why couldn't Dennis be.....happy?

The most credible answer to that comes from what Barbara told me..."he couldn't accept or love himself." She mainly says that was because of Murry... Karen Lamm basically told me the same thing, "Dennis' biggest hangup is that he never felt accepted by his father. He could never get past that." Most of his friends agree. The Manson thing only made it worse. That generated major guilt and shame, warranted or not. He didn't relax or sleep well because he was constantly haunted by relentless inner turmoil, that wears on you. Sometimes he'd get a little better like in '70 and in '74/'75. But the darkness always returned, and always in a more severe form. Substances gave him a brief break from obsessing about whatever that darkness and pain was....but of course they just created a larger problem, a deeper hole. One thing that helped was living on the boat, and in the studio, sailing and working. When the boat and studio were gone he had no anchor...thus more time to self medicate the gnawing self doubt...which turned into a death spiral.  Brian's problems generate from pretty much the same place. These guys were severely traumatized at an early age, they might have been pre-disposed to addiction anyway, they both were/are very fragile inside. Some of us have that built in sense that everything is going to be okay, and we like ourselves, and feel loved and secure at our core. That comes from good parenting. Its a stable foundation. Brian and Dennis do/did not have that. In fact they both have a giant deficit in that area...massive self doubt, massive insecurity, massive inner turmoil and pain. Brian's morphed into huge fear and emotional paralysis, Dennis' morphed into self destruction. Draw your own conclusion.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Personally I think that either Carl or Dennis were much better producers than Bruce but neither were in any condition to complete a record in '79, Brian was even worse.

And, that continues to fascinate or mystify me. That period, 1974 - 1981 (or to 1983) found Brian, Dennis, and Carl in such bad shape. There was substance abuse, mental illness, financial irresponsibility, divorce, inter-group fighting, some poor performance in the studio, and just a basic deterioration.

But why? The Beach Boys were given a second chance in 1974, a second chance that very few rock bands are given. It brought a lot of (new) money, a lot of fame, and a chance to reaffirm their legend, their status, and their reputation(s). But they blew it. A look back at that period shows one debacle after another, one tragedy after another. As fans looking back with 20/20 hindsight, it's hard to figure out why. They had it all.

Many historians point to Murry's death as a real turning point. I suppose there's some truth to that. But that has to be other reasons why they couldn't stay healthy, stay creative, even stay married. I mean, they lost it all - again. It's as if they learned nothing from their decline in the late 60's/early 70's. Anyone have any thoughts?

To be fair...1974 through mid 1977 was Dennis' most productive and prolific time. And he was relatively straight in '74 and '75 as well...and physically healthy throughout '76. The bad stuff kicked in mid '77 for him.

And why do you think that was, Jon? Instead of POB being a "taking of", a starting point, a success to be built on, it was basically down hill from there. As far as the band was concerned, Dennis didn't have the pressures or responsibilities that Brian, Carl, and even Mike had. Why couldn't Dennis be.....happy?

The most credible answer to that comes from what Barbara told me..."he couldn't accept or love himself." She mainly says that was because of Murry... Karen Lamm basically told me the same thing, "Dennis' biggest hangup is that he never felt accepted by his father. He could never get past that." Most of his friends agree. The Manson thing only made it worse. That generated major guilt and shame, warranted or not. He didn't relax or sleep well because he was constantly haunted by relentless inner turmoil, that wears on you. Sometimes he'd get a little better like in '70 and in '74/'75. But the darkness always returned, and always in a more severe form. Substances gave him a brief break from obsessing about whatever that darkness and pain was....but of course they just created a larger problem, a deeper hole. One thing that helped was living on the boat, and in the studio, sailing and working. When the boat and studio were gone he had no anchor...thus more time to self medicate the gnawing self doubt...which turned into a death spiral.  Brian's problems generate from pretty much the same place. These guys were severely traumatized at an early age, they might have been pre-disposed to addiction anyway, they both were/are very fragile inside. Some of us have that built in sense that everything is going to be okay, and we like ourselves, and feel loved and secure at our core. That comes from good parenting. Its a stable foundation. Brian and Dennis do/did not have that. In fact they both have a giant deficit in that area...massive self doubt, massive insecurity, massive inner turmoil and pain. Brian's morphed into huge fear and emotional paralysis, Dennis' morphed into self destruction. Draw your own conclusion.

Thanks, Jon.

[Chris Brown]

Very well said Jon.  Murry really was the root of the most wonderful (music) and terrible (substance abuse) elements of his sons' lives.

[ESQ Editor]

Both versions have their merits, but the 1974 recording is grittier and better. Bruce's production on LA was a bit too much syruppy for me, but the song, in general, is among the group's "post Holland" best.

[Jason]

The 1974 version has a charm to it that the released version, as good as it is, does lack. The backing track (which also circulates) is very punchy, with tons of the classic touches. The original backing track was perfectly fine to have been left as is when the band went back to the song, but Jim Guercio probably found it too punchy for the late 1970s. Of course, in a perfect world, Good Timin' would have been part of a 1974 album that would have gone further with the Holland progression.