The Latest from Jon (Stebbins, that is)

[Glenn Greenberg]

post deleted
 

[Exapno Mapcase]

"Dylanesque" usually means it's shite because it's not Dylan.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

"Dylanesque" usually means it's shite because it's not Dylan.

It's an expression loosely used, probably should listen to the song first to see what I mean.

Vega is a lot better looking and sings much better!  

Poor Bobby D, smoking like a chimney these days and sounds like an ashtray.
Even Charlie Sexton can't help him now.

[MBE]

C'mon now you know with Dylan "It's All Good"

[the captain]

To briefly wander further down this off-topic line, Dylan sounds great. His '00s output is the second best decade (to the 60s) of his career, in my book. So his voice is scratchy now: it wasn't as if he has lost a voice that would have been considered traditionally good anyway. His band is great, the production on the albums has never been better, the material is surprisingly consistently strong, and Dylan's phrasing is brilliant.

[The infamous Baldwin Organ]

I think Dylan has finally grown into the performer he wanted to be for so many years; a tired, world-weary storyteller from another time and place.

I didn't grow up with his 1960's records, but I'd consider him a great artist on the strength of his last few albums alone. Maybe not everyone likes them, but those have been the best NEW records that have come out recently, to my ears anyway.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

To briefly wander further down this off-topic line, Dylan sounds great. His '00s output is the second best decade (to the 60s) of his career, in my book. So his voice is scratchy now: it wasn't as if he has lost a voice that would have been considered traditionally good anyway. His band is great, the production on the albums has never been better, the material is surprisingly consistently strong, and Dylan's phrasing is brilliant.

Luther my man, you and johnnyhypothesis gotta be smokin the wacky weed!  

Seriously, Dylan's voice is soooo bad that everyone thinks his Xmas album is a put-on!  I have every one of his albums up till "Modern Times" but I just can't bear the deteriorating voice any longer. Musically, yes, as good as ever.  Great band!

I know you are about the tunes Luther.  And you are a talented dude ("I'll Bet He's Nice" is still on my iPOD a year after getting it from you - Thanks) but face facts, Dylan now sounds like merda.

 It's quite the famous story that Dylan quit smoking in 1969 and we got the sweet "Lay Lady Lay" and Nashville Skyline.

[KokoMoses]

I happen to feel that from pretty much Smile onward, Brian sounded like a sick crazy person. Still love him though!

I know Dylan technically sounds like merda, but he's probably the only living rock dinosaur who I could go see and if he played nothing pre 1996, I'd be perfectly happy! Time Out Of Mind and beyond has been some of his best stuff and his current band is his best since the Rolling Thunder band.

[the captain]

To briefly wander further down this off-topic line, Dylan sounds great. His '00s output is the second best decade (to the 60s) of his career, in my book. So his voice is scratchy now: it wasn't as if he has lost a voice that would have been considered traditionally good anyway. His band is great, the production on the albums has never been better, the material is surprisingly consistently strong, and Dylan's phrasing is brilliant.

Luther my man, you and johnnyhypothesis gotta be smokin the wacky weed! 

Seriously, Dylan's voice is soooo bad that everyone thinks his Xmas album is a put-on!  I have every one of his albums up till "Modern Times" but I just can't bear the deteriorating voice any longer. Musically, yes, as good as ever.  Great band!

I know you are about the tunes Luther.  And you are a talented dude ("I'll Bet He's Nice" is still on my iPOD a year after getting it from you - Thanks) but face facts, Dylan now sounds like merda.

One thing that bugs me about this board is the continued hero worship of BW ignores that fact that he can't sing anymore.  Some bemoan the fact that Brian, and Dennis, destroyed their voices while many others ignore Brian's present lack of singing ability and still see him as the same singer he was in 1966.

Dylan may have been 'God', but many, many long time fans have stopped buying his stuff cause they can't stomach the voice  anymore. Thank goodness for the "Bootleg Series".  If the critics and music snobs would stop trying kiss Dylan's ass, maybe he'd get a wake-up call, quit smoking and get his voice back.

 It's quite the famous story that Dylan quit smoking in 1969 and we got the sweet "Lay Lady Lay" and Nashville Skyline.

I could not disagree more.

[Andrew G. Doe]

One thing that bugs me about this board is the continued hero worship of BW ignores that fact that he can't sing anymore.  Some bemoan the fact that Brian, and Dennis, destroyed their voices while many others ignore Brian's present lack of singing ability and still see him as the same singer he was in 1966.

Not a hero to me, and you may have noticed that I generally have harsh things to say about Brian's vocals these days, 'cause the simple fact is that, by any normal yardstick of rock and/or pop, his current live voice is sub-par most of the time. Not my opinion, fact.

[the captain]

many others ignore Brian's present lack of singing ability and still see him as the same singer he was in 1966.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone here--ever--even hint that he's the same singer he was in 1966. You'll read comments about his ragged voice having a certain gravitas, about him showing the occasional glimmer of "old Brian," or every time he shouts someone will say he's enthusiastic. But when in the life of this board has anyone ever said he sounds like the 1966 Brian? I think you're reaching with that.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

 .

[KokoMoses]

"The God worship thing is nuts.  I think Luther, if Dylan put out 60 minutes of fart sounds, you'd think it was genius.  The guy sounds like s#@t!"

Ah, c'mon!!!! Lol, I know he sounds like s#@t! but hasn't he ALWAYS pretty much? At least as singers are concerned! No Dylan fan has never put on a Dylan album expecting to hear the latest American Idol winner! But Brian..... Brian had a LOVELY supernatural voice for many years!!! I mean, he was never Carl, but who the hell is??

[SurfRiderHawaii]

?

[the captain]

The God worship thing is nuts.  I think Luther, if Dylan put out 60 minutes of fart sounds, you'd think it was genius.  The guy sounds like s#@t!

I think you're seeing something that isn't there about Brian, but more importantly I want to point out this part of your post because it shows you literally have no idea what my position on Dylan's work is. I am ambivalent about at least half of his 60s work, actively dislike a solid percentage of his 70s work, strongly dislike almost all of his 80s work, get back to ambivalent in the 90s, and then love the 00s. That's hardly mindless idol worship. It's called a personal opinion. That it differs from yours doesn't mean sh*t. I'm not claiming any kind of objective truth or reality and I'd appreciate a little courtesy.

[KokoMoses]

For me the 2000s Dylan is almost like an entirely new creature. New dude! And yeah, sort of like we can imagine he always wanted to be. His post 2000 stuff has a real "band" feel to it too, like it's not just some rock God and his backup guys. Dylan melds with these cats like Elvis did with his "From Elvis In Memphis/Back To Memphis" guys. For me, there's a sense of joy and playfulness to this stuff that wasn't there often before. I'm a HARDCORE Dylan fan. Love ALL Dylan Decades, but anything pre Time Out Of Mind, for me can feel a bit removed and cold, though amazing. So, I can completely get how Luther (and to an extent, myself) prefer his newer stuff.

[the captain]

This thread has evolved into a couple of interesting topics, btw. One, which Dylan is best, which we've hit on. Another is what makes a good rock voice ... which to me is another funny point. Nobody will argue Bob Dylan has what is generally considered a traditionally good voice in terms of tone, pitch, range, etc. Aside from the mention that he never had a very good voice in those regards to begin with, it's noteworthy that we're talking about rock music here. This isn't opera. It's not even jazz (though Billie Holiday's best work, in my opinion, was her trashed-voice work, too.) It's rock. If you don't prefer Dylan's scratchy voice, fine. But it's rock music: the lack of "good" voice is irrelevant. If we're dismissing Dylan for his voice, we're dismissing Howlin Wolf, Don Vliet, Lou Reed, Leonard Cohen, Tom Waits, Ray Davies, John Lennon, and on and on. We'd whittle down to a pretty small subsection of pop music history if it takes a "good voice" to have a good voice in the pop or rock context. Truth is, someone can suck (or be limited) and be great. You don't have to like it, but that is the truth of rock history.

[Wirestone]

Actually, something peculiar to me about Dylan is that his pitch-sense is actually not bad. He doesn't always have the equipment to hit the note cleanly, but he knows what it is (and sometimes avoids it just to mess with you). This is true with Waits, too. Now, Cohen and Reed are different -- they've developed styles based around the fact that speak-sing/are chronically flat.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

The God worship thing is nuts.  I think Luther, if Dylan put out 60 minutes of fart sounds, you'd think it was genius.  The guy sounds like s#@t!

I think you're seeing something that isn't there about Brian, but more importantly I want to point out this part of your post because it shows you literally have no idea what my position on Dylan's work is. I am ambivalent about at least half of his 60s work, actively dislike a solid percentage of his 70s work, strongly dislike almost all of his 80s work, get back to ambivalent in the 90s, and then love the 00s. That's hardly mindless idol worship. It's called a personal opinion. That it differs from yours doesn't mean merda. I'm not claiming any kind of objective truth or reality and I'd appreciate a little courtesy.

To quote you (U R pretty clear) "To briefly wander further down this off-topic line, Dylan sounds great. His '00s output is the second best decade (to the 60s) of his career, in my book. So his voice is scratchy now: it wasn't as if he has lost a voice that would have been considered traditionally good anyway. His band is great, the production on the albums has never been better, the material is surprisingly consistently strong, and Dylan's phrasing is brilliant."

[SurfRiderHawaii]

I love Dylan!  I think my favorite period was the "Rolling Thunder Revue".  I love the Daniel Lanois produced stuff alot.

"Everything is Broken" (80's) is a real favorite.

And I've always loved his voice; even in the 90's.  Just now, I can't handle it anymore

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Luther, I really admire your ability to hear "the tune/song" over the sound!

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And where would the Beach boys be without those angelic voices blending into magic.  It is rock but they'd never have been bigger than Jan and Dean.

[MBE]

Dylan really was good for most if not all of his career. I admit I like the pre 1978 stuff best because I actually do like his young voice, but his albums since Time Out Of Mind (excepting maybe the Christmas one) are all pretty darn fantastic in their own way.  I think the stuff he didn't put out in the 80's is better then what he did but he's just a great artist. Ok he doesn't sound pretty but he makes it work for him because he adjusted down his phrasaing and even his style.

The thing about Brian is that he never really was able to find a vocal style that worked after 1974. Oh he's done some solid vocals here and there but he wasn't able to find a consistent range or change the sound of his music enough for something to really work all the way. Dennis on the other hand was able to use his later day rasp to his advantage at least until 1980 or so. I think from 1974 on he wrote things that were a little darker less vocally challenging. Stuff that called for a certain weariness. To me hearing a hoarse Brian sing something light like Solar System just doesn't sit right.

[mikeyj]

And where would the Beach boys be without those angelic voices blending into magic.  It is rock but they'd never have been bigger than Jan and Dean.

How do you figure that?

[c-man]

I happen to feel that from pretty much Smile onward, Brian sounded like a sick crazy person. Still love him though!

I know Dylan technically sounds like merda, but he's probably the only living rock dinosaur who I could go see and if he played nothing pre 1996, I'd be perfectly happy! Time Out Of Mind and beyond has been some of his best stuff and his current band is his best since the Rolling Thunder band.

And, he's picked up a horde of new (younger) fans.  Hence his new albums always land at the top of the charts or close to it.

[the captain]

And where would the Beach boys be without those angelic voices blending into magic. 

The Beach Boys needed great voices because their songs were created for great voices singing complex harmonies. It's why Brian's deteriorated voice is less often successful than Waits' or Dylan's. But Lou Reed, Bob Dylan, Tom Waits, et al. didn't write that way. My point (well, this particular point of mine in this thread, one of a few) is that rock/pop is a big tent. Certainly you CAN have a great voice, and you CAN use it to great effect. But so can you be just as effective without one, as long as you have something else to offer. It's almost irrelevant to his music that Bob Dylan "can't sing."

[TdHabib]

Shoot me but I think Brian has improved vocally today---I think TLOS is the best set of vocals he's done since 74 and a good vocal performance by any yardstick. No, not nearly up to his old standard, but I played it for someone who was groomed on the old BB stuf and nothing since about 1968 and she loved it and even remarked, with no concurrent remark from me, "he sounds good for his age. Good falsetto." This was on "Live Let Live".