THE BEACH BOYS PLAY MONTEREY POP

[Sheriff John Stone]

What you posted is true, Luther. But I think what you have on a Beach Boys' board, or any other band's forum for that matter, is a search for some answers - note the plural. There are many Beach Boys' fans who believe the 1967-1973 period was just as good "musically" as the previous era, 1962-1966. However, commercially, and in some cases critically, it was not. Why was that?

Of course there were a number of reasons, and you listed some valid ones above. But that doesn't make any one of them invalid, and I know you're not saying that. Some of the things we are discussing were REAL and valid. Do we add more validity, yes, in some cases. I don't think it's possible to agree on a percentage, but that's OK; that's what makes the discussion fun. That's what makes these message boards interesting. It makes you think.

Did not playing Monterey have an adverse effect on the group's career? Maybe, maybe not. Probably yes. Major? No, not really. How much? You tell me!

[the captain]

How much? You tell me!

1.13%. Exactly. I measured. And I know not everyone, or maybe even not anyone, is overtly saying that any of these singular missteps were the be- and end-all. It's more the underlying tone sometimes that just strikes me as unrealistic. I guess that's what you get on a board dedicated to a band, though, so I ought to shut my mouth on such things.

[Cam Mott]

All bands have their season and the Boys season passed. I remember the shock to find out that not everyone in subsequent generations revered the Beatles as I do so I don't think even the Beatles were immune to seasonal change.

[Surfer Joe]

Jimi's comment "and you'll never hear surf music again" was a reactionary message about Dick Dale, who I believe had been injured in a major accident in early 1967 and was also one of Jimi's heroes.

I think the story on that is that Dale had just been diagnosed with cancer, or some disease, but it seems to be kind of unconfirmed. Apparently it comes only from Dale, at some unspecified later time, and may be second hand at that, as in "someone told me this is what he meant..." since I don't think they knew each other.  One version I've seen has it that Hendrix had been misinformed that  Dale was dead.  And to add to the confusion, I think there are mixes where Hendrix goes on a bit more, and it gets even vaguer- just non-sequitur stuff. If anyone knows for sure, please post.

In any case, I heard about a year ago that Dale's website was implying he's in bad shape once again.  I sure wish him the best.

[Surfer Joe]

Also, Luther, Cam, SJS, all good points in good posts, despite Luther's obvious ongoing alcohol problem (moment of clarity?).

I agree with what you guys are saying, and think these points all mesh. The one thing I would try to add is that the Beach Boys' decline (I know that word is going to start a riot, but what the hell) is just so sudden and abrupt that you can't help but zero in on that period and ask questions. The change from "Good Vibrations" to the rest of Smiley Smile is a jolt almost unlike anything else in rock history.

Dylan had his ups and downs but his career followed a generally logical path. The Rolling Stones evolved logically, waxed and waned here and there, and then gradually declined to dinosaur status. If the Beatles had hung in there, albums consisting of the solo material as band material would have shown more hits, but some slightly less iconic ones,  the emergence of George followed by a fairly gentle decline into increasing musical incompatibility, and then various personal problems, especially John's circa 1973-75.

The Beach Boys were cruising at full altitude when they flew into the side of Mount Everest.

Of course I'm talking about their career status and perception, not the artistic merits. But the nearest comparison I can think of would be Elvis in his schlock movie soundtrack period, which still yielded a lot of gems like "Bossa Nova Baby" but was a jolting and bewildering change from where he had been.

Luther, to your (alcohol-tinged, but lucid and insightful) point the only "what-if" of great substance in 1967 would be one involving Brian's mental health and well-being.  But I think of it this way: they had Sunflower in their fairly near future.  That wasn't a hit album in 1970, but they had lost a lot of ground by then.  The kind of focus, talent, and multiple contribution that produced that album might have gone quite a bit further in 1967 when they still had more career momentum. If only they had managed themselves better when Brian abdicated...Good as some of the stuff still was, you just look at all that talent and shake your head.

About ten years ago Mojo magazine reviewed the (then) latest Lennon compilation and called John Lennon's solo career the biggest disappointment in rock history, which I thought was an interesting comment. I would rank the Beach Boys' failure to step up following Brian's golden age right there with it.

[the captain]

Wine having damaged the keyboard doesn't intoxicate me.

[Surfer Joe]

Denial- that's one of the phases, right? We're here for ya, man!

[Cam Mott]

The Boys' popularity did take a nose dive [more or less] but I think Brian's mental and emotional problems are generally dated a little too early [and a little more severe] than actual. The Boys' popularity took that nose dive on Brian's watch, with him going at full tilt and full power at least through Friends and maybe beyond. The decline can't be blamed on Brian, the Boys, or mental or emotional issues, but just on the whim of Popular music buyers. No one's fault, just the clock ran out on their season.

[grillo]

Man Luth, I'm sorry to hear about your obviously crippling booze issue but I'm sure there's some hope of recovery in some distant future, so chin up!
 I agree that the BB are an unusual example of career trajectory, but I wonder if it might be because they were never really all that mainstream. Yes, they had hits, many of which I'm not yhe biggest fan of, but the hits were all kinda novelty songs. Were the Beach Boys ever really accepted as cool by the masses like the Stones or Beatles were/are? Seems like maybe the early hits were sort of a fluke of timing (not that those songs aren't head and shoulders above almost anything else from that time period) and it was a real struggle for Brian to succeed in the popularity contest part of music so he just gave up that struggle. In turn, the public stopped paying attention.

[the captain]

wtf.

[Surfer Joe]

O.K., now I really disagree with the last couple of posts, except of course the parts about Luther's tragic but inspiring battle with addiction. But he's beginning to ask questions, and that's a good sign.

Cam, just my opinion, but I think BW underwent a radical change, personally, professionally, and creatively, the biggest of his life, in Spring '67 and the BBs let that define them from pretty much then on. Have at me.

Grillo, one big difference I have with most here is that if I chose my top fifty BB songs, many more would come from before Pet Sounds than after. I like the later stuff, love much of it, indifferent to a lot of it. But I really love the earlier hit-era stuff.  Songs like "Wendy", "Warmth Of The Son", "Please Let Me Wonder", "Don't Worry, Baby", "Girl Don't Tell Me", "Keep An Eye On Summer", "California Girls", "Fun, Fun, Fun", "Girls On The Beach", "Salt Lake City", "Good To My Baby" - seldom equaled by anyone at any time- again, just my opinion.

[Sheriff John Stone]

You can look at the group's decline WITH A NUMBER OF REASONS, or, as Cam pointed out, you can view it as the band simply running it's course (or season), as all bands do.

I'm somewhere in between. And I do put a lot of emphasis on Brian's input. When the Beach Boys were popular, Brian was composing/producing/performing music that the public wanted. They were in synch with each other. When the group's popularity started to wane, Brian was making music that the public didn't want.

Brian WAS "Surfer Girl", "Don't Worry Baby", and much of Today, Summer Days, Pet Sounds - and even "Barbara Ann". And the audience loved it. They wanted it. They wanted more. But Brian changed. His music changed. He became Smiley Smile and Friends and "I Went To Sleep" and "You Need A Mess Of Help". But the audience didn't want that.

It is said that the Beach Boys audience changed, and that the Beach Boys weren't hip, or edgy, or hard rock-ey enough to change with them. Just like this thread; would the new "hip" audience (like Monterey) accept them? But, I don't think the Beach Boys' audience changed much at all. It was the Beach Boys, or mainly Brian, who was changing. Brian wanted Smiley Smile; the fans embraced "Darlin'". Brian wanted Friends; the fans wanted to "Do It Again". Brian wanted "Time To Get Alone", the fans preferred "I Can Hear Music". Brian wanted a Fairy Tale; the fans wanted to "Sail On Sailor".

This is a long way to say that the band probably would've gone over fine at Monterey. Those fans were still there. They still "liked" the Beach Boys, the good old Beach Boys. Did they (the fans) really care if the Beach Boys changed, looked cool, were hip guys, or smashed their instruments? Probably not. They might've just wanted to hear some good old Chuck Berry rock and roll music with some nice harmonies. Didn't Endless Summer eventually prove that....

[Cam Mott]

Nothing to go at you about, that is just my opinion too, according to my understanding of what I think I know.

[Surfer Joe]

Well, I respect that, even if I see it differently, because I know from years on here that you know your stuff.  Good points, SJS, too. I strongly agree that the BBs changed more than their audience did. The standard line that they were suddenly out of step would make a lot more sense if they had been putting out more "Barbara Ann" and "I Get Around" and "Help Me Rhonda" and suddenly flopping with it.  The truth is probably closer to the opposite of that, striped shirts and "Papa Oo Mow Mow" excepted. And (as you mention) when they did put out a nostalgic record, "Do It Again", with a surfing mention, it did pretty well.

[KokoMoses]

Grillo, one big difference I have with most here is that if I chose my top fifty BB songs, many more would come from before Pet Sounds than after. I like the later stuff, love much of it, indifferent to a lot of it. But I really love the earlier hit-era stuff.  Songs like "Wendy", "Warmth Of The Son", "Please Let Me Wonder", "Don't Worry, Baby", "Girl Don't Tell Me", "Keep An Eye On Summer", "California Girls", "Fun, Fun, Fun", "Girls On The Beach", "Salt Lake City", "Good To My Baby" - seldom equaled by anyone at any time- again, just my opinion.
[/quote]


Surfer Joe, I think you hit one of the biggest Beach Boy nails on the head, and God (only) knows there are many of them!

That list of songs you pointed out really is just the tip of the iceberg, as far as pre-Pet Sounds stuff is concerned. A truely mind-bending run of quality, that, in my opinion has never been equaled. At some (debatable date-wise) point the Beach Boys sort of became a monster eating it's own tail, or rather, the tail eating the monster!!! Nothing they could do would ever eclipse the insanely strong impression they made as purveyors of a FORMULA!!! A wonderous formula at that, but such a distinct and singluar formula! It's a bit like the "New Coke" fiasco! Remember that? The new Coke might have tasted fine, but people's reaction was "You're chaning the taste of Coke? Why??" They even did away with the old logo seemingly without realizing or caring about how entrenched that logo had become in the public's hearts and minds for 50+ years, at that point.

And yeah, I agree completely that it was The Beach Boys who changed rather than their audience. I honestly think The Boys could have come out carrying surfboards and wearing the damn striped shirts and played an entire set of nothing post 1965 and the audience would have eaten it up! Sure, some might 've snickered here and there, but they'd still be clapping along. Hell, for all we know "The Beach Boys At Monterey" might've have very well marked the birth of ironic hipster-nerds as we now know them, 30+ years ahead of schedule.... But The Boys had already hurtled around their own personal curve and were a different creature. Their leader was a troubled genius who couldn't care less about being a rock star and being hip, or rather his hipness had little to do with being cool and showing how hard you could rock in 4X4 blues or shred on guitar. Brian had already gone from "what the kids want" into deeply personal/painful introspection, into wild vibrant avant garde pop, and was now veering into the vortex of psychodrama and doing whatever the hell it was that pleased him. And what were the rest of the Beach Boys supposed to do, tuck Brian into bed and continue on as if it was 1965 forever? That wasn't an option. So, they struggled for a few years but became their own band and their own people, then came Endless Summer and the tail ate the snake. But how was this not supposed to have happened? We can blame Mike all we want, but pre 1966 Beach Boys is some powerful merda!

[NHC]

Set list and reception. When this topic last came up a year and half or so ago, I wrote something along the lines of this:  If they had come out like they owned the place with a huge guitar riff for Surfin' USA or that great opening instrumental Carl did live for Fun Fun Fun, and to heck with anyone who didn't like it, I truly believe they really would have owned that place.  Yes, their star had fallen somewhat and there was always pressure to be "new" or "relevant", whatever any of that means, but they were still the Beach Boys and were asked to play for a very good reason. Set list?  A couple of power openers like I mentioned, then maybe Sloop John B, Heroes and Villains , Rhonda, anything to get the hips to clap along as if they could resist anyway.  Darlin' would have been good but I can't recall if it was available by then. Another Pet Sounds tune, Surfer Girl and another golden oldie, close it off with Good Vibrations.  Absolutely nothing to be embarrassed about, and the proof of that is we're still listening to those songs 40 years later and everybody still knows the words. Would performing have helped their career?  No clue. I will say, though, that speaking only for myself as a first-generation fan, not so much that came after that period was even close to what came before.

[BJL]

The Boys' popularity did take a nose dive [more or less] but I think Brian's mental and emotional problems are generally dated a little too early [and a little more severe] than actual. The Boys' popularity took that nose dive on Brian's watch, with him going at full tilt and full power at least through Friends and maybe beyond. The decline can't be blamed on Brian, the Boys, or mental or emotional issues, but just on the whim of Popular music buyers. No one's fault, just the clock ran out on their season.

Brian may have been okay emotionally, he may not have, but it's hard for me to understand the statement that Smile to smiley-smile/wild honey wasn't a nose dive.  I actually prefer Wild Honey and Smiley Smile most days, but in terms of an artist firing on all cylinders, pushing for the best and the newest, working constantly to progress...all that changed.  Smile was spending days to get 30 seconds of one song perfect.  Smiley Smile was: "how about we smoke some weed and finish this record up by next wednesday." 

[Surfer Joe]

Somebody who had access to a lot of the studio tapes once told me (twenty years ago) that it was like one day a different guy walked into the studio.  He said all the confidence and command you always hear on the earlier stuff just seemed to vanish overnight.

Great post, ED5- to back up your "tip of the iceberg" point, just pull out Endless Summer, which was drawn strictly from that era, all pre- Pet Sounds, and then Spirit Of America, which was drawn from the same pool, other than "Breakaway".  Just a stunning achievement, when you think that those eight incredible LP sides loaded with iconic songs represented about fifty months' work and completely excluded the band's (consensus) best album and single greatest hit*.


*Though "Good Vibrations" was later tacked onto the CD version.

[cta]

The "Brian pulled the group out" is probably just some working-claim at the time and they've kept up with it since.

In 1967, they could have blamed it on fifty different things and one of them would have easily fit the excuse.

Monterey, I'm sure, is a lot bigger now in memory and footage than it was at the time being just a festival. 

[grillo]

I just want to point out that I wasn't saying the early songs are bad, in fact I too love '61-'66 the best. My point was the songs BW wrote or used as singles are NOT the songs that I like best, nor do I think they are a true representation of the group or Brian's headspace. Brian changed, sort of, in a way, by ceasing to care about writing hit singles and instead he went with his rather weird muse, something that has always been there from the start, but now its ALL that is there. Whatever chart action they saw came clearly from Brian and Murry's dramatic need for popularity, and when Brian decided it was taking too big a toll on himself he simply reverted back to his strange muse, public be damned. On some level I do enjoy the early hits, but I like Our Car Club WAY better than BTTYS or even FFF.

[Surfer Joe]

O.K., Grillo, I'm getting you now- misunderstood before.  Your point is well-taken. I think a lot of people see it that way, and I did too, to a degree, at one time. I've really grown to love the hits a lot more over the years. Some of them are monsters, obviously- "California Girls", "Don't Worry Baby", "I Get Around"- and I know you're not talking about those, at least not primarily.  But "Little Deuce Couple", "Shut Down", "Catch A Wave"...these records have a really special place for me and they just seem to get better with age.

And one that I think is one of Brian's most underrated achievements- not one of his greatest, necessarily, but one of his most underrated- is "Help Me, Rhonda". The bass line on that one is one of the greatest in pop history, and the changes are  really slick, too (though they nearly always were by then).  Certainly one of his most inventive tracks, when you think of that guitar lick playing off the totally unique bass line. Then the little eight-note device to get into another key for the chorus is just more icing on an amazing slice of cake. Something as simple as learning it on guitar only increased my admiration for it, but the Stack-o-Tracks version of it is the single biggest testimony to that record, other than the record itself.  It also has great lyrics. To borrow a phrase from J.R.R. Tolkien, I wish it had more honor among its own people (us).

I also love "Fun, Fun, Fun" , but I've loved that one since I was seven years old, so I might be biased.  I think it's possibly Mike's and Brian's greatest lyric, and it's just an exciting record that never gets old.

One I'll single out to sort of "agree" with you on- though you didn't say this- and though I might get pelted with rocks and garbage, is "Surfer Girl" (which I like a lot) vs. "Girls On The Beach", which I love. "Surfer Girl" will always be the classic record; to me "Girls On The Beach" is "Surfer Girl" revisited and perfected- just a better record than the classic, in my opinion.

[Sheriff John Stone]

There's another song from that era (1962-66), which is sometimes viewed as simplistic, or child-like, or even as a novelty, but I think it's a work of art, from beginning to end, and that's "Little Saint Nick". There is soooooooo much packed into two minutes. Dare I say genius?

[Stephen W. Desper]

COMMENT:

Michael Love was in a strange mood during that time. He was in his "idealistic period" discovering his inner spiritual self and all that sort of thing.  The boys were booked to be at the show, but Mike wanted to pull out at the last minute because he found out that coca-cola was one of the sponsors.  To him (at that time) coke represented all that was wrong with big corporations pushing the younger person into drinking something that was not healthy. He felt so strongly about this that he refused to appear. The group followed.

However, the American Productions (A Beach Boy Inc. subsidiary) sound system was booked -- and me along with it. I was the winner on that one!  I got to mix all those groups -- one great sound after another. I had a fantastic seat, right in front of the stage, elevated above the crowd about 20 feet back.

While Hendrix was on stage, getting ready to perform, I had to make some microphone adjustments on stage. I remember going up to him and identifying myself as the Beach Boy's engineer. I ask JH what he thought of Brian. He said he thought Brian was "cool" but he didn't like surfing music much -- and then proceeded to tune up at 120 dB.

Having been there and experiencing all that went on, I would say that if the group had performed, they would have been right up there with all the other great groups that apperared.  Their music was as much a part of that crowd's experience as any of the other bands or singers. I'm certain they would have been well received as they always are.

The organizers wanted them and made concessions to get them there. One being that they would be able to bring their own sound system -- and engineer.  The American Productions sound system was the heart of what came to be a collection of several sound systems into one big system. Their's was the largest mixing board and most powerful amp/speakers around the area, but still other systems were needed to fill the entire area with quality sound. So all these systems were pooled together. When the group pulled out, the sound system was already on its way to the gig. Had it not been allowed to be used, the festival would have not been the success it was. The other consoles available were very much smaller and would have compromised what turned out to be a very special moment in time.

As it turned out, the group made money from their sound system rental, but certainly missed out on becoming a part of history. 

Good Listening, ~Stephen W. Desper 

[Shane]

Fascinating comments.  I just got ahold of the 4-CD boxed set of the festival that came out in the early 1990s.  One of the most striking things about this set is the sheer sound quality.  It literally sounds like the bands are playing in the room with you... leaps and bounds better sound quality than the Woodstock recordings!

[Chris Brown]

Thanks so much for sharing your memories Steven...I can't even imagine what an incredible experience Monterey must have been for you.  I never thought that the Mike Love/Coca-Cola reasoning had any merit, but I'll certainly take your word for it.  It really is a shame too, since most of us think that with the right set list, the Boys would have killed at the festival.

Glad to have you back on the board in general too!