THE BEACH BOYS PLAY MONTEREY POP

[A Million Units In Jan!]

I also seem to remember (from a book, maybe David Leaf's?) that they didn't play because of money.

[KokoMoses]

Whatever the case, they DID play the Big Sur Folk Festival, which did gain them a few hipster brownie points!

Speaking of: does anyone know of any footage of the Boys from that gig? There's a ton of stuff from that festival, including CSNY playing in what looks like a backyard pool area, so I'd be amazed if no one pointed a camera in The Beach Boys direction!!!

[Jon Stebbins]

Whatever the case, they DID play the Big Sur Folk Festival, which did gain them a few hipster brownie points!

Speaking of: does anyone know of any footage of the Boys from that gig? There's a ton of stuff from that festival, including CSNY playing in what looks like a backyard pool area, so I'd be amazed if no one pointed a camera in The Beach Boys direction!!!

CSNY footage is from the 1969 Big Sur Festival for which a feature film was made. Beach Boys(minus Dennis and Brian) played there in 1970, and no film was made that year.

[KokoMoses]

Damn, I had no idea those were two different festivals!!! Thanks for the info!!!

Wouldn't It be Nice from that gig is on some compilation album, I think!

[Jason]

The whole gig is also unavailable to listen to.

[KokoMoses]

Funny because wasn't it supposed to have been a great gig?

Ah, but I'm sure the whole show will be up on "BeachBoysCentral" any minute now! 

[metal flake paint]

Damn, I had no idea those were two different festivals!!! Thanks for the info!!!

Wouldn't It be Nice from that gig is on some compilation album, I think!

Celebration, Recorded Live, Big Sur Folk Festival, Monterey, California 1970, A&M Records, originally released 1970.

[Wilsonista]

Playing in Monterey or not was a non factor. The singles after Good Vibrations just didn't find an audience. Simples as that.

If it was as cut and dried as that, they never would have had major chart success in Britain with those so-called uncommercial singles.

[Cam Mott]

I doubt SMiLE mattered much one way or another and their invitation was because of Pet Sounds and Good Vibrations and the rest of their previous catalog.

[Dancing Bear]

Playing in Monterey or not was a non factor. The singles after Good Vibrations just didn't find an audience. Simples as that.

If it was as cut and dried as that, they never would have had major chart success in Britain with those so-called uncommercial singles.

Uh, ok. If you want to stick to the old myth that the Beach Boys' commercial decline was due to not playing in Monterey, Jann Wenner's evil schemes and the acid rock dictatorship, feel free to do so. One million bands and singers sold millions of records without having played in Monterey or having street cred with Rolling Stone magazine.

[Surfer Joe]

I don't believe he said that, about wanting to stick to myths, etc.  I think he said it wasn't as simple as indicated.

[Jon Stebbins]

Damn, I had no idea those were two different festivals!!! Thanks for the info!!!

There were EIGHT Big Sur Folk Festivals...every year from '64 through '71.

[Dancing Bear]

Ok then. Another angle:

"Why wasn't Smile released in 1967?" isn't simple. "Why did Brian change so much from '65 to '75" isn't simple.

But "Why did the Beach Boys started selling less and less records in USA from '66 to '70" IS simple. If it's not the case, I'd like to know why.

[Wilsonista]

Correct me if I am mistaken, but the Americans aren't the only people in the world who bought records. The band continued to enjoy commercial success outside the US. Singles that flopped in the USA became hits elsewhere. That's not Leafian myth, it's fact. 

Surer Joe, thank you for "getting" my point.

[Dancing Bear]

Whenever we talk about the band's comercial decline in the late 60s, it's about the American market. And if their non appearance in Monterey, the main subject here, would have any consequences, it would be in the American market.

Debating with Mr. McCabe often seems like being in a Monthy Python sketch. 

[Surfer Joe]

Why wasn't Pet Sounds a hit album?  Because Capitol didn't promote it, and because they released a hits compilation against it, which was always a signal that a band was over.

Turns out that nothing I just said really bears close scrutiny of the facts, but it's perceived history.  History is a process of streamlining and simplifying the story, and reducing people to characters, but the truth is often more complicated.

In 1967 the Beach Boys were at a crossroads, and Monterey would have been a nice time and place to re-launch the band's image.  By all accounts it was a great showcase for Hendrix, Otis Redding, Big Brother, and the Who. Dropping out either hurt them or was (at least) a missed opportunity. The New Beach Boys could have gotten some nice press and been widely seen in a classic film, in some prestigious company.

SMiLE was, of course, the big missed opportunity.  Rolling Stone undoubtedly hurt them, and Hendrix' "You'll never hear surf music again", whatever it meant, probably hurt them about as much as Jeff Bridges' hip ranting against the Eagles in "The Big Lebowski" has hurt that band in recent years.

On the other hand, the Four Seasons were still having some success in this period, and attributed it to not changing. 

When you hear records like "Do It Again" "Darlin' ", and "I Can Hear Music" it sounds to me like a band that still had plenty to offer.

[Jon Stebbins]

Why wasn't Pet Sounds a hit album?  Because Capitol didn't promote it, and because they released a hits compilation against it, which was always a signal that a band was over.

Turns out that nothing I just said really bears close scrutiny of the facts, but it's perceived history.  History is a process of streamlining and simplifying the story, and reducing people to characters, but the truth is often more complicated.

In 1967 the Beach Boys were at a crossroads, and Monterey would have been a nice time and place to re-launch the band's image.  By all accounts it was a great showcase for Hendrix, Otis Redding, Big Brother, and the Who. Dropping out either hurt them or was (at least) a missed opportunity. The New Beach Boys could have gotten some nice press and been widely seen in a classic film, in some prestigious company.

SMiLE was, of course, the big missed opportunity.  Rolling Stone undoubtedly hurt them, and Hendrix' "You'll never hear surf music again", whatever it meant, probably hurt them about as much as Jeff Bridges' hip ranting against the Eagles in "The Big Lebowski" has hurt that band in recent years.

On the other hand, the Four Seasons were still having some success in this period, and attributed it to not changing. 

When you hear records like "Do It Again" "Darlin' ", and "I Can Hear Music" it sounds to me like a band that still had plenty to offer.

The Four Seasons had LESS chart success than the BB's did in the '67 to '68 period.

[Wilsonista]

What I was objecting to was your idea that they didn't find an audience post 66.  I'm saying that they did find success overseas. Nothing more. 

[grillo]

On the other hand, the Four Seasons were still having some success in this period, and attributed it to not changing. 

Also, the 4Seasons WERE changing as per their album Genuine Imitation Life, which is sorta good, the best song being the only 4seasons song that has Beach Boys-like harmonies (Something's on her Mind).

[Surfer Joe]

The Four Seasons had LESS chart success than the BB's did in the '67 to '68 period.

I didn't say otherwise.  Just said "some success". Couple top twenty singles, something like that. Just making a comparison.

On the other hand, the Four Seasons were still having some success in this period, and attributed it to not changing. 

Also, the 4Seasons WERE changing as per their album Genuine Imitation Life, which is sorta good, the best song being the only 4seasons song that has Beach Boys-like harmonies (Something's on her Mind).

Yeah, by 1969.  Nonetheless, I've heard them attribute their continued success, whatever that was, to not changing, as stated. Right or wrong, it's their own view, which I thought was interesting enough to mention.  And I don't think Genuine Imitation Life Gazette was a huge career milestone as much as it is a well-regarded album.

[grillo]

Also, the 4Seasons WERE changing as per their album Genuine Imitation Life, which is sorta good, the best song being the only 4seasons song that has Beach Boys-like harmonies (Something's on her Mind).
[/quote]

Yeah, by 1969.  Nonetheless, I've heard them attribute their continued success, whatever that was, to not changing, as stated. Right or wrong, it's their own view, which I thought was interesting enough to mention.  And I don't think Genuine Imitation Life Gazette was a huge career milestone as much as it is a well-regarded album.
[/quote]
True. Man, that was '69 huh?

[Surfer Joe]

I had cheated and looked it up.  Apparently it was January, '69.  Is "Idaho" from that album?  That's a great sounding record.

[Jason]

Jimi's comment "and you'll never hear surf music again" was a reactionary message about Dick Dale, who I believe had been injured in a major accident in early 1967 and was also one of Jimi's heroes.

[Cam Mott]

Why wasn't Pet Sounds a hit album?  Because Capitol didn't promote it, and because they released a hits compilation against it, which was always a signal that a band was over.

Turns out that nothing I just said really bears close scrutiny of the facts, but it's perceived history.  History is a process of streamlining and simplifying the story, and reducing people to characters, but the truth is often more complicated.

Well done.

[the captain]

(This is gonna be a single paragraph because I'm using a computer whose Enter key was f***ed by wine. I didn't spill it, but it was spilled. Hopefully we can all get through this.)      People here put so much stock into the missed opportunities of the Beach Boys, as if each of them might have been the thing to keep them from everlasting, uninterrupted super-popularity. The promotion of Pet Sounds, the release of Smile, playing Monterey, whatever. But as much as all of us here love and respect this band, only one band that I can think of has ever achieved uninterrupted mass appeal combined with uninterrupted critical acclaim: the Beatles. And while I also realize plenty of people here prefer the BBs to the Beatles, I'm sure there are Doors fanatics who prefer the over the Beatles, Zappa fans who prefer him over the Beatles, and on and on. Realistically, any of the missed opportunities wouldn't likely have had any major effect on the longer-term reality: pop bands come and go pretty quickly, and even the long-lasting ones (as the BBs clearly have been) have their ups and downs. Playing Monterey would not have inspired 10 consecutive Pet Soundses, each a triple platinum hit. Brian used up his innovative brilliance and moved into interesting but infrequent output, the family didn't get along, most everyone struggled with drug problems, management sucked, teens moved on to other things (as they always do) before new ones came aboard. I don't believe it could have gone otherwise.