"Kokomo" is a great song

[TdHabib]

It's a guilty pleasure. There, I've said it. 

My take is that a lot of the malice directed at "Kokomo" stemmed (and still does) from the fact that they, and not Brian, had the hit.

It's just that "Love and Mercy" would've been such a better song to hit #1...not that probable but a nice thought. Incidentally I like most of "Kokomo," except the "Aruba, Jamaica" bit...and did so BEFORE I knew Mike wrote that bit...so don't call me biased. I love Carl's section. "Kokomo" is distinctly an average song...in my opinion several of Brian's songs on BW88 slay it...

[phirnis]

Said it numerous times before and I'll say it again, I really wish "Kokomo" would've been part of a Brian/Carl-produced BB album that featured most of the songs that eventually ended up on BW88 ("Rio Grande" included).

I do agree that Mike's lead vocal sounds kind of offensive or even creepy on "Kokomo". To me, however, that's part of the fun. It's a great song and I absolutely love both the percussion (despite the somewhat cheesy reverb) and the way the accordion sounds.

[Sheriff John Stone]

My take is that a lot of the malice directed at "Kokomo" stemmed (and still does) from the fact that they, and not Brian, had the hit.

I think you can include Brian himself in that. He always appears to be upset that he wasn't on the record. Is it because of the quality of the track or the fact that it went to No. 1 - and he wasn't involved?

[Nicole]

I really like the song, not just because it reminds me of some great summers I've had (that song dominates my local oldies station in the summertime), but just because it's a fun and catchy song. I'd still like it even if it wasn't released by the Beach Boys.

[Andrew G. Doe]

My take is that a lot of the malice directed at "Kokomo" stemmed (and still does) from the fact that they, and not Brian, had the hit.

I think you can include Brian himself in that. He always appears to be upset that he wasn't on the record. Is it because of the quality of the track or the fact that it went to No. 1 - and he wasn't involved?

I don't think Brian ever quite believed the band's explanation as to why he wasn't on it - that is, Landy didn't pass the invite along.

[?]

My take is that a lot of the malice directed at "Kokomo" stemmed (and still does) from the fact that they, and not Brian, had the hit.

I think you can include Brian himself in that. He always appears to be upset that he wasn't on the record. Is it because of the quality of the track or the fact that it went to No. 1 - and he wasn't involved?

I don't think Brian ever quite believed the band's explanation as to why he wasn't on it - that is, Landy didn't pass the invite along.

Was their explanation true?

I have to say, I think it's a rotten song but that doesn't have anything to do with Brian's non-involvement - I think the Spanish version with him sucks too.  I just don't like any of John Philips' writing in that era and the 80's production style never suited the band.  I will say that Carl's chorus vocals are nice though.  His voice held up so wonderfully over the years.

[Sheriff John Stone]

My take is that a lot of the malice directed at "Kokomo" stemmed (and still does) from the fact that they, and not Brian, had the hit.

I think you can include Brian himself in that. He always appears to be upset that he wasn't on the record. Is it because of the quality of the track or the fact that it went to No. 1 - and he wasn't involved?

I don't think Brian ever quite believed the band's explanation as to why he wasn't on it - that is, Landy didn't pass the invite along.

Judging from past history, Brian should not doubt the band's intention. WHEN DIDN'T THE BAND WANT HIS PARTICIPATION?! I don't have to list all of the reasons how the band could benefit by having Brian Wilson associated with a record.

It's funny how it turned out, though, at least for Mike. By Brian not being there, and "Kokomo" being their biggest hit - ever - well, we know what Mike has to say about that. And it's ironic that he never intended it to be that way, without Brian that is.

[Ganz Allein]

My take is that a lot of the malice directed at "Kokomo" stemmed (and still does) from the fact that they, and not Brian, had the hit.

I think you can include Brian himself in that. He always appears to be upset that he wasn't on the record. Is it because of the quality of the track or the fact that it went to No. 1 - and he wasn't involved?

I don't think Brian ever quite believed the band's explanation as to why he wasn't on it - that is, Landy didn't pass the invite along.

Was their explanation true?

I have to say, I think it's a rotten song but that doesn't have anything to do with Brian's non-involvement - I think the Spanish version with him sucks too.  I just don't like any of John Philips' writing in that era and the 80's production style never suited the band.  I will say that Carl's chorus vocals are nice though.  His voice held up so wonderfully over the years.

I agree. Had no clue whether Brian was involved or not until a couple of years later and thought it was stinky anyway. La versión en español tambien.

[Wirestone]

SJS -- I think was around this time the band was becoming quite comfortable with not having Brian involved in sessions -- and not asking him. If you read the Carlin book, it's pretty clear that Carl didn't think much of latter-day Brian's songs or vocal ability. According to the book, the band also began to schedule sessions specifically at times that Brian was previously unavailable. I think Carl felt it was just easier -- and just as satisfying musically -- to not deal with Brian and his drama. And in a way, it's hard to disagree with that.

That being said, it's also impossible to discount Landy's ability to f*** things up royally ...

[TdHabib]

But it's an extremely sad view point---especially since Brian and Carl could have their moments together...mainly in front of cameras. Take the History of Rock and Roll segments, IJWMFTT or the Endless Summer acoustic segment. But basically they weren't functioning well together...

[runnersdialzero]

SJS -- I think was around this time the band was becoming quite comfortable with not having Brian involved in sessions -- and not asking him. If you read the Carlin book, it's pretty clear that Carl didn't think much of latter-day Brian's songs or vocal ability. According to the book, the band also began to schedule sessions specifically at times that Brian was previously unavailable. I think Carl felt it was just easier -- and just as satisfying musically -- to not deal with Brian and his drama. And in a way, it's hard to disagree with that.

Pretty sad, if true.

[Sheriff John Stone]

SJS -- I think was around this time the band was becoming quite comfortable with not having Brian involved in sessions -- and not asking him. If you read the Carlin book, it's pretty clear that Carl didn't think much of latter-day Brian's songs or vocal ability. According to the book, the band also began to schedule sessions specifically at times that Brian was previously unavailable. I think Carl felt it was just easier -- and just as satisfying musically -- to not deal with Brian and his drama. And in a way, it's hard to disagree with that.

That being said, it's also impossible to discount Landy's ability to foda things up royally ...

The band could've excluded Brian around that specific "Kokomo" period (1988), but that would've been an extremely small window when they would've done it. In 1987, Brian sang on "Wipe Out", appeared in the video, and was invited to appear with the group in the "California Dreamin" video and on the Solid Gold TV appearance.  

In 1989, on the Still Cruisin' album, Brian sang on "Island Girl" and "Make It Big". Were those songs recorded in 1988? Also, is Carl on "In My Car"? And, when was the Spanish version of "Kokomo"(with Brian) recorded? There's also the 1989 TV series - with Brian sitting right next to Carl around the campfire, SINGING along. Was that series filmed in 1988?

It does seem a little impractical to schedule sessions when Brian was unavailable. How would they know? Did Brian even know when he was recording? But, I can see them (Carl) recording the bulk of the tracks without Brian and then bringing him in, just to add his voice to the mix. But that's not excluding him. They'd basically been recording like that for the previous 20 years.

[Reggie Dunbar]

Some probably believe it's not hip to enjoy "Kokomo", while others such as myself view it as a guilty pleasure. Carl really makes the difference, as he did on "Good Timin'" and other later songs that are consistently critiqued.

[SurfRiderHawaii]

Some probably believe it's not hip to enjoy "Kokomo", while others such as myself view it as a guilty pleasure. Carl really makes the difference, as he did on "Good Timin'" and other later songs that are consistently critiqued.

It's catchy and I agree, Carl hits it.  The contrast of Mike and Carl works well.

I think many of us kinda despise it because Mike seems to always mention "Kokomo" in interviews and thrust it up there along side BB classics like GB and GOK.  "kokomo" was a catchy pop hit but not a BB classic.

**********

Seeing it's Xmas time and we are on a thread for "Kokomo", I wonder what everyone thinks of "Santa's Goin' To Kokomo" as it's on the new release 'JDRF's Hope for The Holidays'.

http://www.amazon.com/JDRFs-Hope-Holidays-Weezer/dp/samples/B002MT3BS0/ref=dp_tracks_all_1#disc_1

[Wirestone]

Brian's additions to all of the songs mentioned from Still Cruisin' are essentially cameos -- he's not part of the harmony blend, he just pops up on a tag or two. And I would assume that was for contractual reasons with Capitol. "In My Car" is a solo track that was sent along to Carl and Al for chorus vocals.

But I'm directly referring to Carlin -- (page 268 in the paperback) on the scheduling matters, which I agree sound peculiar, but who knows. It's from a letter Brian's lawyer wrote to the president of Brother in 1990, which also claims that Brian had twice offered to produce new Beach Boys albums in the late 80s, only to be rejected by the group both times. "This kind of treatment hurts me very much in my chest. It's obvious the boys don't want me," Brian's quoted as saying.

I personally give this letter credence (given the context of the time in group history) because it doesn't make any sense given Landy's ambitions for establishing Brian as a solo artist. It also wasn't in the form of a lawsuit or responding to some attempt to oust Landy. Brian seems to have been very hurt, for whatever reason, at this time, because he couldn't record or produce the guys he thought of as his group.

I don't think the BBs were unwilling to work with Brian -- which they clearly did throughout this time -- but they were not going to give him creative control, and they no longer considered themselves his group. (And rightly so -- they clearly weren't. Mike and Terry's bragging rights for Kokomo were fairly earned.) And I love Brian as much as the next guy, but the only reason he gripes about Kokomo is that it was a hit and he wasn't on it. He has as much of a primal business sense about hits as any former 60s rocker. I doubt he would care otherwise.

[MBE]

It's a guilty pleasure. There, I've said it. 

My take is that a lot of the malice directed at "Kokomo" stemmed (and still does) from the fact that they, and not Brian, had the hit.

Not for me I just am not big fan of 80's pop. I admit I am into mainly muusic recorded before my 1976 birth and after my fathers 1951 arrivel.

[MBE]

The thing to remember is that they Beach Boys didn't mind working with Brian but nobody in or out of the group liked working with Landy. You couldn't seperate the two in 1988. That said Brian was on most of the 80's singles until Kokomo. East Meets West, Don't Worry Baby with the Everly Brothers, Wipe Out etc. I really believe the Beach Boys version. After all how rare is it to have Mike and Al tell the exact same story.

[Nicko]

He's on some of the songs immediately afterwards too like the Spanish version of Kokomo and Island Girl and I don't really see why they would have excluded him from that particular song.

[Alex]

I hate the song...but I will admit it's pretty damn catchy. It was in my head for hours last night after I saw Stewie singing it on Famly Guy.

[Sheriff John Stone]

But I'm directly referring to Carlin -- (page 268 in the paperback) on the scheduling matters, which I agree sound peculiar, but who knows. It's from a letter Brian's lawyer wrote to the president of Brother in 1990, which also claims that Brian had twice offered to produce new Beach Boys albums in the late 80s, only to be rejected by the group both times. "This kind of treatment hurts me very much in my chest. It's obvious the boys don't want me," Brian's quoted as saying.

I personally give this letter credence (given the context of the time in group history) because it doesn't make any sense given Landy's ambitions for establishing Brian as a solo artist. It also wasn't in the form of a lawsuit or responding to some attempt to oust Landy. Brian seems to have been very hurt, for whatever reason, at this time, because he couldn't record or produce the guys he thought of as his group.

I don't think the BBs were unwilling to work with Brian -- which they clearly did throughout this time -- but they were not going to give him creative control, and they no longer considered themselves his group. (And rightly so -- they clearly weren't. Mike and Terry's bragging rights for Kokomo were fairly earned.) And I love Brian as much as the next guy, but the only reason he gripes about Kokomo is that it was a hit and he wasn't on it. He has as much of a primal business sense about hits as any former 60s rocker. I doubt he would care otherwise.

I don't doubt that Brian wanted to try to produce the group again in the mid/late 1980's, and I don't doubt the authenticity or sincerity of "the letter". However, there is a big difference between the group not wanting Brian to produce them or giving him major control, and specifically scheduling sessions when Brian wasn't available and not wanting to work with him. That was the specific issue I took/take exception with. I just don't think the guys would ever do that. I think we basically agree on the issue, Clay.
 
Going off-topic a little bit....I think the guys (including Mike) had been burned by Brian too many times with his questionable production - starting way back with Smiley Smile, but specifically the late 1970's. We all know about the final product which became 15 Big Ones, and, as brilliant as Love You is, that production could also be questioned. Then there is Brian taking a back seat with MIU, turning over the reigns to Bruce on L.A. Light Album, and his less than enthusiactic work on Keepin' The Summer Alive. How many chances did they want to give him?

I have no doubt that Carl and maybe others questioned Brian's competence after he emerged with/from Landy in 1982-83. One just had to look into his eyes or listen to him speak. As much as I would love to see Brian and Mike work together again, that - control - would be a major stumbling block. Brian's previous failures, his condition post-Landy, and the success of "Kokomo", changed everything.

[Jason]

I think the problem was not just Brian failing to deliver since 1976, but the general disillusionment of the band as a whole by 1988 that they were just throwing their arms up and saying "whatever", then recording what came to them. It IS ironic how in 1991, Michael was the only one who really wanted to do new music. Carl and Al were indifferent and Bruce was intent to just trade on the past glories every night. Brian was only recording because Landy was pushing him to.

I don't think that any one person can be singled out as the one to blame for Brian not participating in Kokomo. It was most likely just a comedy of errors. I do tend to believe the story that Landy was told by the band that they would be recording and he refused on Brian's part, but I can also believe that the band was sick of getting a bite in their collective asses every time Brian pledged to "do his best" since 1976 and then lose interest within days. Of course, the Landy situation didn't help matters, since as early as 1985, Carl and Michael were quite vocal about how they were rarely allowed to contact Brian due to Landy's overbearing control on him.

At the end of the day, if anyone knows the right answer, I'm sure Landy would be the person to ask. Since, however, he's food for the maggots now, we could always break out a Ouija board and ask him.

[Wirestone]

Yeah, SJS -- Funnily enough, I think that in some ways, if it were just up to Mike, Brian would have had a bigger role in the BB work of that era than he did. Mike has nearly always praised Brian's basic creative talents -- Carl stopped doing that after a point.

And there's no question Brian let the group down pretty spectacularly in the 70s. Not necessarily his fault or intention, but the BBs as they existed in the 70s and 80s could not legitimately be asked to put out album after album like Love You.

In some ways, Mike's attitude obscures the fact that I think he's still a little bit in awe of Brian. (And of course, he's not one to really directly state affection -- something like that can corrode multiple marriages, methinks.) Mike is a word guy and performer -- Brian has supplied him his bread and butter for decades. Carl was a musician who learned in a couple of years' time how to produce an almost exact approximation of Brian's instrumental and vocal style. I think he found Brian's refusal / inability to progress or mature as a songwriter disappointing and irksome.

[Jason]

Clay has arrived, finally, at the most basic truth that our friends in the THREAD don't seem to understand. Brian Wilson's biggest fan is none other than Michael Love. And Michael never was that way because Brian is his cousin.

[Amy B.]

Since Carl was Brian's baby brother, he probably looked up to him until 1966 or 67, only to find Brian slowly deteriorate into an overgrown child.  That MUST have been frustrating and disappointing. Carl had a lot on his shoulders, having two older brothers who had such problems, and then having to deal with infighting on top of that. I can understand if he just said, "Why should we call Brian just because we're recording a new song, when Brian has been so difficult" and thinking Brian shouldn't have it both ways.  On the other hand, I can understand Brian's disappointment at being left out, if that was the case. He had written all those songs that made the Beach Boys what they were, and then he wasn't even being included. So I see it both ways.

[Amy B.]

To put it into Brian Wilson terms, if Good Vibrations is a steak, then Kokomo is a Big Mac. You might enjoy both, but GV is of undoubtedly higher quality.
I like the chorus and Carl's part of Kokomo, but find that Mike's voice is creepy. Also, the sax solo grates on my ears. Another thing is the effect on the BBs reputation for a whole generation. Suppose the Beatles reformed in the 80s and recorded a song written by Paul McCartney and Mick Jagger, and it was a cheesy 80s song and it became a monster hit and eclipsed the rest of the Beatles' catalog for a whole generation. And let's say it was a bigger hit than even Hey Jude. Wouldn't that be annoying?