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Poll
Question: Rate Carl And The Passions- So Tough
5 - 19 (12.8%)
4 - 57 (38.3%)
3 - 58 (38.9%)
2 - 11 (7.4%)
1 - 2 (1.3%)
0 - 2 (1.3%)
Total Voters: 141

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Author Topic: Carl And The Passions- So Tough  (Read 36753 times)
TV Forces
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« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2006, 11:31:40 AM »

Aside from "Marcella," this album is horrible.
I just can't get into it.  I've tried. 
The sound... man, if this wasn't the Beach Boys,
I wouldn't have given it a chance.
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« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2006, 11:11:16 PM »

Let's be honest, this album really could have been three separate albums.  You've got the rockers like Mess of Help, Here She Comes and Marcella.  You've got the country and gospel stuff like He Come Down and Hold On Dear Brother, then you've got the soft stuff like Dennis' two songs and All This Is That. 

Those are three short albums.

Four singles.

Flame - Hold On, Dear Brother/Here She Comes

Denny & Darryl - Make It Good/Cuddle Up

TM - All This Is That/He Came Down

Brian & Jack - YNAMOHTSA/Marcella.
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« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2006, 11:16:43 PM »

Excellent.
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« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2006, 02:28:39 AM »

Aside from "Marcella," this album is horrible.
I just can't get into it.  I've tried. 
The sound... man, if this wasn't the Beach Boys,
I wouldn't have given it a chance.

I agree.  You Need A Mess of Help is OK.  Otherwise, tracks like 'He Come Down' are perfectly horrible.  I keep saying I should give the Dennis tracks more of a chance but I can't because of the aversion therapy the rest of the album has given me.  I give it a very charitable 2. 
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« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2006, 05:32:19 PM »

Probably my favourite Sunday morning record, this was when I really got into them and I got this not long after it came out.

Why do I like it when it sounds almost nothing like the great 60's albums? Because it is (mostly) honest. It sounds like the band they were at the time; fractured, separated from the man they had always relied on (Brian may have written two songs but he was hardly involved in the recordings), trying to find a direction of their own.

Despite his absence the album contains two great ideas for songs that had been rescued from Brian's out-tray and turned into great songs by Carl.

Unlike Surfs Up it contains two wonderful Dennis songs.

All This Is That is the finest non-Brian song in the Beach Boys history.

He Come Down is....OK actually, inoffensive.

The two Rickie & Blondie tracks are cool. They aren't The Beach Boys but they are cool.

THe production is understated - apart from Marcella which shimmers and Make It Good which goes for an emotional high and just makes it.

Nice cover too. Shame they had to post Brians picture into the band picture the way they did, but as we know, he wasn't around much at the time.

A 4 for me!
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« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2006, 05:22:52 AM »

i can't believe how much Marcella is rocking in played in concert with BW! I remember when i saw him, he said the song was about his masuse...i though Anna Lee was about to be played! what were the original lyrics to this?
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« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2006, 01:38:47 PM »

Question for anyone who has the Caribou Remastered CD release of Carl and the Passions - "So Tough" (the one from the early 90s)...

Which cover art was used?  The one with "THE BEACH BOYS" spelled out on the left side of the truck, or the one with "THE BEACH BOYS" spelled out across the top of the album cover like the original LP?

Thanks!
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« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2006, 02:47:29 PM »

The original LP doesn't have the Beach Boys' name on there. At least my copy doesn't.

I believe the cover art that was used on the 2000 reissue was the same as on the 1990 issue.
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« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2006, 05:09:13 PM »

Really?  This is what mine looks like...

Notice how "THE BEACH BOYS" is written across the top:



[attachment deleted by admin]
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« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2006, 05:13:56 PM »

I have a copy of CATP on vinyl, and my copy doesn't feature the band name on the top. Weird. Maybe I have a later pressing.
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« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2006, 05:28:45 PM »

Or maybe I do.  Who knows.  That is odd though.
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« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2006, 05:40:49 PM »

My guess would be that the earlier pressings didn't have the band name, and the later pressings did. 

I purchased my first copy in 1978, brand new from the store....and had to return it, because it contained two copies of "Pet Sounds" and no copy of "So Tough" (I know some people may say two "Pet Sounds" and no "So Tough"s are a better deal, but still...).  I exchanged it for a copy of "Friends"/"Smiley Smile", since they were out of the "Pet Sounds"/"So Tough" set.

Later that year, I returned and bought "Pet Sounds"/"So Tough".  I just checked that copy (purchased in '78), and it does not say "The Beach Boys" the top.  Neither does a supposed first-pressing copy I bought second-hand years later. 

BTW, yes, the 2000 Capitol CD reissue, coupled with "Holland", uses the same cover art as the 1990 Caribou issue.

C-Man
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« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2006, 01:27:16 PM »

3 really good cuts (Marcella, Mess of Help and All This) but the rest is so/so. A disjointed mess. Sounds like 3 different albums collided (A Dennis solo, a Flame LP and a halfway decent Beach Boys album). After reestablishing themselves with Surfs Up and Sunflower (at least to the public), why dump this half baked piece of crap onto the shelves? Sunflower was saved by the labels' intervention. They should have told the boys to go back to the drawing board with this one. And who needs another copy of Pet SOunds? Stupid. I hate this record.
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« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2006, 01:36:56 PM »

Quote
And who needs another copy of Pet SOunds?

People who want the best-sounding version of the album.
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« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2006, 01:41:56 PM »

AMEN.
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« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2006, 03:50:58 PM »

I've got a 1972 UK pressing of CATP and it HAS the band name across the top and a 1972 US pressing of the double CATP/Pet SOunds and it hasn't got the name. Looks like the single LP version has the name, the double doesn't.

Weird.
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« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2006, 05:02:44 AM »

Really?  This is what mine looks like...

Notice how "THE BEACH BOYS" is written across the top:



So looks mine, but what is that on the right side under the window?
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« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2006, 05:23:09 AM »

Looks like a price tag.
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« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2006, 05:58:39 AM »

Looks like a price tag.

That would be fine.... mine doesn't have that.... Grin
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« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2006, 06:13:53 AM »

Actually the UK version had the name in black - unlike the above.
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« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2006, 07:36:58 AM »

I love CATP. It was the last BB album I ever acquired (on the 2000 two-fer) after trying to track it down on vinyl for years, and I was expecting to be a poor quality album after reading so much negativity about it. However I have always loved it, Brians songs are great, the Flame songs are great (especially hold on...) Dennis' songs are good and even the Mike ones are good. I love the dusty rootsy production and find it a far more engaging listen than the over-rated Holland.
I wish there had been more material from this era, does anyone have a list of outtakes from this album?
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« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2006, 09:08:14 AM »

My rankings:

1. TM songs
2. Brian's songs
3. Flame songs
4. Dennis's songs
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« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2006, 12:02:13 PM »

You guys should take this over to the C&TP review thread.
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« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2006, 03:01:17 PM »

My score:

All This/He Come Down - fantastic
Brian's - above average
Flame's - HSC okay, HODB pretty good
Dennis's - CU okay, MIG sounds unfinished


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« Reply #49 on: April 13, 2006, 11:12:47 AM »

I think this is a fantastic album -- one of the best rock and roll albums of the 70s.  Frankly, I think if this exact same album had been released by a group that got critical respect instead of derision, it would regularly appear on all-time album lists.

People often talk about the "muddy" mix on this album, but I can't say I really hear it -- except maybe on "Mess of Help" and "Marcella."

MESS OF HELP -- Great rock and roll song by Brian.  The title (supplied by Jack Rieley) is awesome.  My favorite guitar solo on an album full of them. 

HERE SHE COMES -- Awesome Ricky/Blondie song.  Fantastic playing (love the drums, bass, keyboards, guitar -- everything).  Just about the perfect 70s rock song.

HE COME DOWN -- A somewhat controversial song.  I could do without the Maharishi references, but otherwise this is a pretty great rock/gospel song.  A good idea to use the group's voices (with Ricky and Blondie added in) for gospel.

MARCELLA -- Another very good Brian song.  Another great guitar solo.  The fade goes on about 30 seconds too long but is very cool (like Til I Die).

HOLD ON DEAR BROTHER -- A very moving, beautiful song.  Love Blondie's singing, love the steel guitar.  Can't help feeling this was somehow addressed to Brian (even if that wasn't the intention).

MAKE IT GOOD -- A cool Denny track, cool and unique production.

ALL THIS IS THAT -- A beautiful song.  Carl never sounded better.  I could do without the TM references, but it's a very minor quibble.

CUDDLE UP -- Another beautiful song.  Somehow what could have been sappy and sugary comes out authentic from Dennis.  Maybe my favorite song on the whole album.

That's eight tracks, and in my estimation, all eight are outstanding.  I give this album an A+.

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