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Poll
Question: Rate Carl And The Passions- So Tough
5 - 19 (12.8%)
4 - 57 (38.3%)
3 - 58 (38.9%)
2 - 12 (8.1%)
1 - 1 (0.7%)
0 - 2 (1.3%)
Total Voters: 141

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Author Topic: Carl And The Passions- So Tough  (Read 39778 times)
Disney Boy (1985)
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« Reply #125 on: June 13, 2013, 10:19:00 PM »

None of the songs are good [...]
You don't consider "Marcella", "You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone" or "All This Is That" as good songs?

Or Cuddle Up? That's 1 out of 5 for both CATP and Holland. You sure you're on the right band forum here...?
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« Reply #126 on: June 13, 2013, 11:19:21 PM »

I think the Ricky/Blondie phase was perhaps the weakest of their entire career. They (almost) completely lost their musical identity and Brian wasn't contributing nearly enough. I listen to The Beach Boys for what they are good at -- good melodies --  not for faux-blues rock.  I'm not close minded. Smiley Smile and Love You, despite their unconventionality,  are two of my favorite Beach Boys albums because they have consistently brilliant songcraft.

I don't understand why I need to worship every phase of the band's career to be a fan, and to be able to visit this board.
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« Reply #127 on: June 13, 2013, 11:32:31 PM »

I think CATP and Holland in particular have always divided the fans. They're not my favourites either.
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Disney Boy (1985)
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« Reply #128 on: June 14, 2013, 11:25:01 AM »

I guess he means because some fans love these records whilst some fans don't like them at all. It seems it's not an even split though, far more fans seem to like them than not. Personally I think Holland is one of the greatest albums of their career and certainly one of their very, very best of the '70's. Every track is a gem.
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« Reply #129 on: June 14, 2013, 02:19:43 PM »

I always thought Holland was a bit overrated. Many fantastic tracks, but as a whole it's a bit too dreary for me.
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« Reply #130 on: June 14, 2013, 03:12:37 PM »

I guess he means because some fans love these records whilst some fans don't like them at all. It seems it's not an even split though, far more fans seem to like them than not. Personally I think Holland is one of the greatest albums of their career and certainly one of their very, very best of the '70's. Every track is a gem.

Even though it may not be as horrible as I make it out to be, it's definitely so different from Pet Sounds and other Brian dominated albums that it is easy to see why some people, like myself, don't like it very much.
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« Reply #131 on: June 14, 2013, 10:30:49 PM »

I guess he means because some fans love these records whilst some fans don't like them at all. It seems it's not an even split though, far more fans seem to like them than not. Personally I think Holland is one of the greatest albums of their career and certainly one of their very, very best of the '70's. Every track is a gem.


I think an accurate reflection of fans' opinions on the albums is Rate Your Music. On the site, Holland gets a 3.48 and CAPT gets a 3.10. The first is even lower than Smiley Smile (3.65), and the latter compares in score to the pre-All Summer Long albums, which generally range from late 2s to early 3s. Both albums are far below Sunflower (3.81) and Surf's Up (3.77), close to Today! (3.80).

« Last Edit: June 14, 2013, 11:11:57 PM by Miss Amanda Jones » Logged
Disney Boy (1985)
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« Reply #132 on: June 14, 2013, 11:16:50 PM »

I guess he means because some fans love these records whilst some fans don't like them at all. It seems it's not an even split though, far more fans seem to like them than not. Personally I think Holland is one of the greatest albums of their career and certainly one of their very, very best of the '70's. Every track is a gem.


I think an accurate reflection of fans' opinions on the albums is Rate Your Music. On the site, Holland gets a 3.48 and CAPT gets a 3.10. The first is even lower than Smiley Smile (3.65), and the latter compares in score to the pre-All Summer Long albums, which generally range from late 2s to early 3s. Both albums are far below Sunflower (3.81) and Surf's Up (3.77), close to Today! (3.80).



Well those to me seem to be surprisingly low scores for such beloved albums as Today! and Sunflower. Jeez, what do you have to do to get a 4 on there...?
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« Reply #133 on: June 14, 2013, 11:31:46 PM »

I guess he means because some fans love these records whilst some fans don't like them at all. It seems it's not an even split though, far more fans seem to like them than not. Personally I think Holland is one of the greatest albums of their career and certainly one of their very, very best of the '70's. Every track is a gem.


I think an accurate reflection of fans' opinions on the albums is Rate Your Music. On the site, Holland gets a 3.48 and CAPT gets a 3.10. The first is even lower than Smiley Smile (3.65), and the latter compares in score to the pre-All Summer Long albums, which generally range from late 2s to early 3s. Both albums are far below Sunflower (3.81) and Surf's Up (3.77), close to Today! (3.80).




Well those to me seem to be surprisingly low scores for such beloved albums as Today! and Sunflower. Jeez, what do you have to do to get a 4 on there...?

Get rid of Tears In The Morning and Bull Daddy I suppose
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« Reply #134 on: June 17, 2013, 03:25:45 AM »

I guess he means because some fans love these records whilst some fans don't like them at all. It seems it's not an even split though, far more fans seem to like them than not. Personally I think Holland is one of the greatest albums of their career and certainly one of their very, very best of the '70's. Every track is a gem.


I think an accurate reflection of fans' opinions on the albums is Rate Your Music. On the site, Holland gets a 3.48 and CAPT gets a 3.10. The first is even lower than Smiley Smile (3.65), and the latter compares in score to the pre-All Summer Long albums, which generally range from late 2s to early 3s. Both albums are far below Sunflower (3.81) and Surf's Up (3.77), close to Today! (3.80).



Well those to me seem to be surprisingly low scores for such beloved albums as Today! and Sunflower. Jeez, what do you have to do to get a 4 on there...?

Don't be thrown, a 3.8+ is considered a great score. Pet Sounds is 4.23 and Smile Sessions a 4.33 so while a 3.48 for Holland might not sound much it's actually quite a good score in the context of RYM.
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« Reply #135 on: July 09, 2013, 08:11:21 PM »

Carl And The Passions- So Tough sounds like a bizarro greatest hits album to me.

A lot of disparate voices crammed together on one slab of vinyl. Bar "Make It Good", it's damn good to me.

"You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone" - 5/5
"Here She Comes" - 4.5/5
"He Come Down" - 4/5
"Marcella" - 5/5
"Hold On, Dear Brother" - 4/5
"Make It Good" - 2.5/5
"All This is That" - 5/5
"Cuddle Up" - 5/5
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« Reply #136 on: August 30, 2013, 06:09:42 PM »

Easily their second-most underrated album.
I actually prefer this over the slightly overrated Holland!
YNAMOHTSA Is my favourite track, and admittedly I prefer this over both Marcella and Sail on Sailor.
Dennis's tracks are not favourites of his, but still great tracks that helps make it worth getting this album.
The Chaplin/Fataar tracks are certainly different from anything the Beach Boys ever did, before and since. But unlike a lot of people, I agree that this is a very good thing!
Had this got much more notice by the public, and sold much better along with Holland, maybe the general public would have actually looked at the Beach Boys much more favourably and may have greatly helped their reputation. Maybe with that, the Beach Boys may have not degenerated to an Oldies act.
4 out of 5
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« Reply #137 on: September 11, 2013, 10:27:30 PM »

As some of you may know, I'm fairly new to The Beach Boys. I only started listening to them about 2 years ago.

I haven't even listened to all of their albums all the way through!

I came across this album at a local antique shop and passed it by. I thought that since it was paired with Pet Sounds it must be rubbish and moved along (kicking myself). I got a subscription to Spotify and have been listening to music while falling asleep lately and decided to put on this album. The first 4 tracks are SO good. I've got the feeling from the short time I've been on this board that this album is considered to be on the lower end of the spectrum in reference to the discography and I really don't understand why.

I find every track on this album to be very enjoyable with the exception of hold on dear brother. I mean - its okay, but doesn't really hold a candle to the rest of the album... By far the weakest link.

This has really become one of my favorite BB albums.

If it holds up over time we'll see
for now 4/5
« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 09:38:14 AM by chrs_mrgn » Logged
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« Reply #138 on: September 11, 2013, 10:30:16 PM »

As some of you may know, I'm fairly new to The Beach Boys. I only started listening to them about 2 years ago.
Exactly the same, I only started getting into them in 2011, much to my dad's horror (he hates the BB's)
And yeah, CATP is a underrated classic, their second-most underrated album
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« Reply #139 on: October 29, 2013, 05:39:01 AM »

One of the most underrated albums ever. This should've sold a million copies. It's really edgy but still has the original Beach Boys style.

You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone - 5/5 - One of the coolest songs Brian ever wrote.
Here She Comes - 4.5/5 - Intro is awesome, that bassline! And I love the guitar solo.
He Come Down - 3.5/5 - Great song but it's somehow a bit boring.
Marcella - 5/5 - SUPER!
Hold On, Dear Brother - 4/5 - Highly underrated song.
Make It Good - 3.5/5 - It's good but feels like it's missing something. It doesn't really sound like a complete song.
All This is That - 4/5 - Amazing! Only one minus from the chorus, I find it dull. I heard All This is That first time ever in London last year when they performed it live. It took me awhile to get it.
Cuddle Up - 5/5 - First listen blew my mind. How something this great and touching can be so unknown? Cuddle Up is a masterpiece and I can't think a better song to end this record.

So again 4/5 for the whole album. It's criminally underrated and should have a lot bigger fanbase that it has. There is not a single weak track here. And I like the fact that for once they have an album full of "long" songs meaning about 4 mins lenght and not that usual fast 1.50-2.30 min. stuff. It's different and it works. Surf's Up-Carl and the Passions-Holland make a ****ing great trilogy.
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« Reply #140 on: November 02, 2013, 04:11:11 AM »

I think the Ricky/Blondie phase was perhaps the weakest of their entire career. They (almost) completely lost their musical identity and Brian wasn't contributing nearly enough. I listen to The Beach Boys for what they are good at -- good melodies --  not for faux-blues rock.  I'm not close minded. Smiley Smile and Love You, despite their unconventionality,  are two of my favorite Beach Boys albums because they have consistently brilliant songcraft.

I don't understand why I need to worship every phase of the band's career to be a fan, and to be able to visit this board.
The Chaplin/Fataar era is their second-best! How can you say it's worse than say, 1983-2011?
The only thing I wish would have happened was for them to stay on a lot longer instead of them leaving after a few years, Endless Summer coming out and the beginning of a slow, gradual decline for the Beach Boys!
Anyway, that era was a nice change for them, and had it got a lot more attention from the public, it may have gotten rid of their embarrasing image problem

I just don't like the self conscious roots rock style they adopted with Ricky and Blondie... I also find the songwriting very lacking both on this album and CATP... some of the songs, particularly those by Dennis and Blondie, are absolutely dreadful. The terrible tag on Only With You always makes me crack up "All I want to do - OOOO is spend my life with you - OOOO." Dennis wrote some great songs from 1968-1969 but, who knows, Daryl Dragon must have corrupted him into writing absolute pap. Only With You, Barbara, and Make It Good are some of the worst songs I've ever heard, lyrically and musically,and they all came from Dennis during this period.
Does this mean you don't like any of his early 70's gems such as It's About Time (Sung by Carl, Written by Dennis), Forever, Slip on Through, WIBNTLA, Carry Me Home, or River Song (Written during that period, came out in 1977)?
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« Reply #141 on: November 02, 2013, 04:27:40 AM »

If this album is underrated, I must be one of the people who is underrating it. There are too few songs and they're mostly much too long and there's no coherence. (Not that I need coherence in an album IF all the songs are great, but in this case they aren't.) I don't like the 1970s model of extended songs, jamming, and seeking macho blues-rock credibilty. I also don't much like Holland or In Concert or Pacific Ocean Blue. I'd love to have seen this era of the group live, it would have been mind-blowing, but as far as listening to records at home goes, I'd rather listen to 1962-1971.

However, I do love ALL THIS IS THAT, and enjoy the Dennis tracks and MESS OF HELP.
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« Reply #142 on: November 02, 2013, 04:34:16 AM »

I also don't much like Holland or In Concert or Pacific Ocean Blue.
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« Reply #143 on: February 20, 2014, 10:09:53 PM »

Carl and the Passions is an album with lots (well not lots, its only 8 tracks!) of great songs which I like very much.

You Need A Mess of Help to Stand Alone: A great rocker which i love jamming to. It would be quite awesome to hear a live recording of this song.
Here She Comes: Every song Ricky and Blondie wrote for the band was great and no better example of that then this. The bass is amazing. One of my favorites on this album.
He Came Down: Mike Love's attempt at gospel kinda feels like a demo (especially in the latter half of the song). The vocals are pretty cool though.
Marcella: Brian's rocker. The song is great but the vocals should've been mixed better. Needs a louder rocking rhythm guitar as well. Lyrics are great though.
Hold On Dear Brother: I will admit I really like this song. Probably because my dad's record/cd collection mostly included country music and so I can appreciate this song more than other Beach Boys fans. Great songs.
Make It Good: The only song I really don't like on this album. Sorry Dennis, this song doesn't really go anywhere and is really poorly mixed. It should've been developed more (or less maybe).
All This Is That: Simply- Beautiful. The vocals are great. The instrumentation is great. This song is great.
Cuddle Up: Now this is how you do a slow song with an orchestra (not Make It Good!). Utter perfection. The melody and chords are beautiful.

I give this album a 4 out of 5. Needs more songs but what's here is great.
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« Reply #144 on: February 20, 2014, 10:15:53 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjhHB4J_TCI
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« Reply #145 on: February 20, 2014, 10:17:18 PM »


Just sounds like live vocals over the instrumental track.
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« Reply #146 on: March 03, 2014, 03:48:38 PM »

Music 4/5.. cover art.. OK..  I can certainly say out of 8 tracks that 6 are great and 2 are BORING.... HODB + MIG.. Dennis"s song IMHO is about the worst song he ever recorded.. .. Overblown.. Boring.. Heavy Handed.. Muddy..  Now I find the other 6 to be very good to excellent.. The band is in transition but successful .. DW had better songs stockpiled..  When this came out I remember hearing Marcella + He Come Down on the radio a number of times.. I guess I should add that I find Cuddle Up to be .. Precious.. Tender... Awesome.. And ATIT a total home run of serenity and good vibes..
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« Reply #147 on: January 31, 2015, 06:53:02 AM »

I always wondered if there was ever a push by the band to actually have this album released under the band name 'Carl And The Passions'? It would have been a neat move, I think, given the new sound - and The Beach Boys logo looks like it was slapped on by label mandate at the last second.

Anyway, I absolutely love this record. In my top 5 Beach Boys albums I think. I'm surprised it's so divisive, but maybe I shouldn't be. I love 70's R&B so that may colour my view a little. I really do think it's a triumph though, and by sheer virtue of the fact that it sounds like nothing else in the band's catalog, it is of great value.
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« Reply #148 on: January 31, 2015, 09:22:36 AM »

I always wondered if there was ever a push by the band to actually have this album released under the band name 'Carl And The Passions'? It would have been a neat move, I think, given the new sound - and The Beach Boys logo looks like it was slapped on by label mandate at the last second.

Anyway, I absolutely love this record. In my top 5 Beach Boys albums I think. I'm surprised it's so divisive, but maybe I shouldn't be. I love 70's R&B so that may colour my view a little. I really do think it's a triumph though, and by sheer virtue of the fact that it sounds like nothing else in the band's catalog, it is of great value.
You are correct. It was slapped on when the CD was first released. In the U.S. at least, the original LP release did not have any such logo. I know that back in 1972 when I first saw it in the record stores, I thought they changed their name. I only knew it was The Beach Boys by turning the album over and seeing the Pet Sounds cover on the back side.
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Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
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But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
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« Reply #149 on: April 11, 2015, 08:15:46 AM »

If you added CATP and Holland together, the result would be OK but uneven and lacking a collective identity, maybe in a kind of White Album way (but the individual tracks are largely nowhere near as good as on that Beatles classic). Some of the tracks sound closer to The Band or CS&N than a Brian Wilson production. Dennis's songs have beauty but are over-lush. Perhaps of all pre-1978 BB albums, you have to love the music of that particular era (CS&N etc) to love these albums. I don't think they survive much as "timeless works" like almost all the ones from Today to Sunflower do.
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