Murry's eight page letter

[Nicole]

Is there any chance someone would have the patience to save/screen cap and upload the pages? I'm not using a computer, so I can't download the software needed to view it. Sounds interesting, though.

I'm very patient 

There you go: http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1135/murryslettermay8th1965.jpg

Late reply, but thank you!

[MBE]

I think Surfer Joe hit the nail absolutely on the head when he labelled Murry a narcissist.  Narcissism is a disease that makes other people suffer.  It's not just arrogance or conceit, it involves manipulating people's emotions, pushing people's buttons, trying to hurt them at their most vulnerable, and playing one person off another to create drama.  All for the purpose of feeding the narcissist's insatiable ego.  They have no empathy whatsoever, and if they do, they relish the hurt they know they're causing.  They can never love another human being or be loved., though they would say differently  Abusing people emotionally and sometimes physically is just part of how they roll.  It's a mistake to ever develop any feelings for them or even feel sorry for them, because they're sociopaths.  Unfortunately for the Wilson brothers, they were a captive audience, since Murry was their father.  I've met a couple of narcissists in my life, and was lucky enough that I avoided getting too involved.  But man, just looking at the lives they lead and how they've hurt other people is sickening enough.

I think deep Murry hated himself for being like his own father. I wouldn't call him a sociopath in that he did have a view of right and wrong. Other then some short term petty comments, I don't think he wanted to see other people hurt especally his sons. He loved his family but didn't know how to treat them right. People like Fred Vail and Eddy Medora really made me see another side to him. He wasn't this pure evil that say Landy was.

[PongHit]

He saw success as a fight.

"Let's fight for success!"

[endofposts]

I think Murry showed sociopathic traits, which goes along with being a narcissist.  He may have had some love for his wife and kids, but it was destroyed by his own self-aborsption.  It was all about Murry.  The only way to save yourself from someone like that is to run away from them for good, or avoid them as much as possible.  Unfortunately, Brian and his brothers weren't able to do that.  Murry died young, but I think that just left the whole conflict unresolved, because they didn't have the ability to see him for what he was when he was alive.  They bought into the guilt trip he laid on them and his emotional blackmail.  He was really twisted.  It's like that old saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."  Only he fooled them over and over again, and made it seem like their fault that the abuse happened, and laid a guilt trip on them for wanting to get the heck away from him.   Most sociopaths are not mass murderers or even criminals, they're people who live among us, sometimes with superficial charm or impersonating "nice guys" to win favor from people at times, while hiding their true nature or motives.  They try to hurt anyone who finds out the truth about them .  That's what that Murry letter is about, in so many layers.  Fascinating stuff, thanks for bringing it to light. 

[adamghost]

It's tough when it's someone in your family.  Walking away from that is a big, big deal.

The "sexual crimes" referred to...is that Brian sleeping with Marilyn?  She was underage, but they were married by '65.  Can't imagine that would have been that big of a deal.  Maybe Murry thought it would have been?

[PongHit]

The "sexual crimes" referred to...is that Brian sleeping with Marilyn?  She was underage, but they were married by '65.  Can't imagine that would have been that big of a deal.  Maybe Murry thought it would have been?

I assumed he was talking about other incidents, maybe Dennis or Mike?

[b00ts]

I think deep Murry hated himself for being like his own father. I wouldn't call him a sociopath in that he did have a view of right and wrong. Other then some short term petty comments, I don't think he wanted to see other people hurt especally his sons. He loved his family but didn't know how to treat them right. People like Fred Vail and Eddy Medora really made me see another side to him. He wasn't this pure evil that say Landy was.

I don't like to jump to conclusions about Murry / Mike Love / anyone else involved in the BBs saga.. but if anything is proof that Murray was a sociopath who didn't care about anyone but himself, it's in this letter.

He essentially tries every possible tactic to get Brian to let him back 'into the fold,' from explaining away his "rough discipline" of his sons as Audree's fault (!) to threatening blackmail. Pretty classy. With a father like that, who needs enemies?

[PhilCohen]

The "sexual crimes" referred to...is that Brian sleeping with Marilyn?  She was underage, but they were married by '65.  Can't imagine that would have been that big of a deal.  Maybe Murry thought it would have been?

I assumed he was talking about other incidents, maybe Dennis or Mike?

But we must consider the letter in the context of the times. What was California's age of sexual consent in 1965? Clearly, it was legal for (then) 22 year old Brian to Marry 16 year of Marilyn in 1964. And it should be noted that at the time when The Beach Boys started their recording career that Carl, David & Dennis were all themselves under 18.

[Mark A. Moore]

It's all Jan Berry's fault  . . . for helping to deepen Brian's pockets as a songwriter . . . at the expense of Murry and the other Beach Boys . . . Oh, and also that thing about Murry's authority being usurped in the eyes mother Audree.

The latter is a true testament, not only to the times, but more directly to the entire ethos of Brian's parents' generatation. Father and husband ruled all . . . Mother and wife was subordinate . . . Kids (especially younger) were to be seen and not heard, and to speak only when spoken to. Regionalism took these issues to different extremes, but there was a bit universality there among that generation.

Beyond that . . . "Guilt-tripping" is still a ploy that parents continue to saddle their children with in the present era. Happens on many levels.

M.

[Aegir]

The "sexual crimes" referred to...is that Brian sleeping with Marilyn?  She was underage, but they were married by '65.  Can't imagine that would have been that big of a deal.  Maybe Murry thought it would have been?

I assumed he was talking about other incidents, maybe Dennis or Mike?

The Lost Beach Boy had this story of Carl and Dave losing their virginity to the same hooker and both getting crabs from it, if I recall.

[Runaways]

The "sexual crimes" referred to...is that Brian sleeping with Marilyn?  She was underage, but they were married by '65.  Can't imagine that would have been that big of a deal.  Maybe Murry thought it would have been?

I assumed he was talking about other incidents, maybe Dennis or Mike?

The Lost Beach Boy had this story of Carl and Dave losing their virginity to the same hooker and both getting crabs from it, if I recall.

lololololololololol

[Carrie Marks]

[/quote]
The Lost Beach Boy had this story of Carl and Dave losing their virginity to the same hooker and both getting crabs from it, if I recall.
[/quote]

Speaking of the Lost Beach Boy....

There is an insightful quote from David in there about the resentment Murry felt when Audree's attention shifted to Brian, which seems to be one of the major points in this letter.  So, I said to David, "you were right about Murry...listen to this!"  David's response was to say that he wasn't Freud at 15...he knew about Murry's resentment toward Brian because Murry TOLD him.  He said the letter didn't have anything in it that he hadn't heard Murry rant about a hundred times before...so Brian (and everyone else who would listen) had heard it all long before the letter was written!

It was actually pretty interesting to read for me because of the amount of time I spend on trying to undo the damage that Murry has done to David, so to read about his "honesty" is so absurd, its laughable.  On the other hand, he does makes SOME valid points.   David has been one of the few who has defended Murry, and given him credit for the initial success of the Beach Boys...maybe because he was brain-washed by all the rants outlined in this letter, or maybe because its true.  Either way, after reading this letter, I can't help but feel a little bit sorry for him. And yes, that is coming from someone whose husband was stolen from by Murry! 

[donald]

That is a very long and rambling letter.  It seems like something someone would write trying to purge themselves of of a lot of obsessive, painful and recurring thoughts.  Possibly trying for closure or to finally state their case in full.   

[Pretty Funky]

Hi Carrie!
Just like to say I just finished the book last week. Thanks to David and Jon for a good and honest read. Very interesting reading first hand about the early days and how many of the characters were behind the presented image.

[adamghost]

The most dangerous crazy people are the ones that make perceptive, valid points, because then you start to believe them and believe you can reason with them rationally.  If someone like that is in your family...look out.

[endofposts]

Aye.  This letter also makes me realize that Murry was an abusive husband, not just an abusive father.  He makes it sound like Audree left him because he got tired of her siding with her sons over his discipline.  But Audree actually left him over his flaunting a relationship he had with another woman. She got tired of being humlliated and hurt by him, but he changed the subject because apparently whatever Murry did was okay according to Murry.  Audree never took him back into her home, either, after that.  Murry had no empathy for her feelings or her pride or sense of self-esteem.  Just like he tried to destroy the self-esteem of Brian in particular by manipulating and trying to push his buttons, but made Brian feel like he was the guilty party, not Murry. 

Yes, people like Murry threaten the well-being and sanity of their families by playing games with their minds, making them feel like the guilty parties when he was the one who trampled over them, not the other way around.  And acted so surprised and hurt if they called him out on his bad behavior, and laid a guilt trip on them for getting mad at him or avoiding him.  I think I understand now why Brian fell under the influence of Gene Landy, who manipulated him in similar ways.  I swear, this letter is one of the best finds in Beach Boy fandom.  Classic. 

[Day Tripper]

 I'm the original poster. I showed this thread to the guy who put this letter on Hard Rock's site, and he wanted to thank everyone for their interest, and said he would send the link to this thread to Hard Rock corporate.  He said this letter was from the Murry Wilson estate, and that he would let me know exactly where Hard Rock got it from.

 He also said "I'll gather up some stuff specifically for this forum. Give me a couple days and I'll dig up some treasures. It'll take a while, though. I need to have the stuff photographed in super hi-res. "

 Apparently its in Hard Rock's warehouse here in Orlando, FL.  Makes me wonder - items that we would salivate over, are just sitting in a box somewhere and no one knows about it,  like Indians Jones' Lost Ark.

 Although some new material may not have the same insight into Murry's thought process as this letter does, I look forward to anything that sheds new light on Beach Boy history. I think we owe this gentleman a big "Thank You."

[Rocker]

I think we owe this gentleman a big "Thank You."

Second that

[smile-holland]

and thirded.

[Aegir]

Fourthed.

[Smilin Ed H]

Thanks!

[PongHit]

Makes me wonder - items that we would salivate over, are just sitting in a box somewhere and no one knows about it

Big thanks indeed!!

[Alex]

It's like that old saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."

I thought the it went "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, fool me, we won't get fooled again!"

[Meade]

One of the more interesting things I have read. I think Murry meant well but I think his own ego and jealousy got in the way. It's almost as if he could see that The Beach Boys had that self destructive streak. He seemed not to be able to make too many friends and didn't understand why people were against him. I would put a lot more weight into what he was saying here if he wasn't screwing Mike over so badly or know that he wouldn't live up to his credo of honesty in 1969. Still I wonder if he had lived another 20 years would things have been better or worse. It's very complex but again it's eerie reading because Brian did fall in with the wrong people over and over and over and over again with horrendous results.

I agree. I think he meant well in his own mind, but the same can't be said objectively.

To add, I think the whole "honest businessman" thing may have something to do with the fact that Brian took all the credit for some songs that were group projects or lifted song structures from elsewhere and reused them. Murry may have focused on these kinds of things as careless business decisions that he didn't want to have to be stuck with--but of course it only seemed to become an issue when these decisions were paying out. We also have to consider that with the amount of material Brian was tasked to be putting out (4 albums in one year), something had to give.

Lastly, I don't think Murry had any real conception of Brian as an "artist," as a person independent of his influence. And that goes for the rest of the group too.

Imagine if Brian had really taken this to heart and "ended the Beach Boys" in '65... they wouldn't have really made that much history other than to be another American band driven out of existence by the British Invasion.

[Smilin Ed H]

"the British Invasion"

God bless Freddy and the Dreamers.