What did the Wrecking Crew think of Brian's way of recording?

[Jay]

Not everybody has session tapes. I, for one, don't have many.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Not everybody has session tapes. I, for one, don't have many.

I'm talking about what's on the Pet Sounds Sessions box. 

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I think it's the multiple threads per day...many on subjects that have been covered ad nauseam here, that's pissing people off.

That and some of the things he said to other members.

With that in mind, the personal attacks on each other need to stop.  Now. Doesn't matter who's right and who's wrong. This is not kindergarten.

[Day Tripper]

 I agree that this is a valid post. I've read a lot of Beach Boy books, watched documentaries, and generally obsessed over Smile for 25 years.  Even when the same questions pop up from time to time, there is always some new revelation brought to light, and that's what keeps me coming here, because of the knowledge and passion that guys like AGD, Luther, C-Man, etc., bring to the board.

Those studio musicians would rather play jazz than most of the bubblegum rock of the 60s they played on, but some of Brian's songs were sophisticated enough to earn the respect of those schooled musicians.

Nobody, when the Wrecking Crew movie is released on DVD, watch it, and you may find some answers. The Pet Sounds DVD has some interviews with some of the session guys that is interesting.

My personal opinion, is that it depended on the song. Three chord car songs probably bored them. Pet Sounds and Smile were classical in some ways - much like a complex painting, with shades of light and darkness that gave it its depth. Just being in the same recording room as Brian had to be awe inspiring. Who wouldn't want to watch Dali or Picasso paint?

[nobody]

I agree that this is a valid post. I've read a lot of Beach Boy books, watched documentaries, and generally obsessed over Smile for 25 years.  Even when the same questions pop up from time to time, there is always some new revelation brought to light, and that's what keeps me coming here, because of the knowledge and passion that guys like AGD, Luther, C-Man, etc., bring to the board.

Those studio musicians would rather play jazz than most of the bubblegum rock of the 60s they played on, but some of Brian's songs were sophisticated enough to earn the respect of those schooled musicians.

Nobody, when the Wrecking Crew movie is released on DVD, watch it, and you may find some answers. The Pet Sounds DVD has some interviews with some of the session guys that is interesting.

My personal opinion, is that it depended on the song. Three chord car songs probably bored them. Pet Sounds and Smile were classical in some ways - much like a complex painting, with shades of light and darkness that gave it its depth. Just being in the same recording room as Brian had to be awe inspiring. Who wouldn't want to watch Dali or Picasso paint?

Good points.

One thing that I am interested in is any possible info that can be found regarding what they thought of it THEN rather than several years after the fact when Brian became a genius rather than a new young producer they were working with ... know what I mean? everyone gushes over Brian now but did they then? that's what I mean.

[Day Tripper]

I agree that this is a valid post. I've read a lot of Beach Boy books, watched documentaries, and generally obsessed over Smile for 25 years.  Even when the same questions pop up from time to time, there is always some new revelation brought to light, and that's what keeps me coming here, because of the knowledge and passion that guys like AGD, Luther, C-Man, etc., bring to the board.

Those studio musicians would rather play jazz than most of the bubblegum rock of the 60s they played on, but some of Brian's songs were sophisticated enough to earn the respect of those schooled musicians.

Nobody, when the Wrecking Crew movie is released on DVD, watch it, and you may find some answers. The Pet Sounds DVD has some interviews with some of the session guys that is interesting.

My personal opinion, is that it depended on the song. Three chord car songs probably bored them. Pet Sounds and Smile were classical in some ways - much like a complex painting, with shades of light and darkness that gave it its depth. Just being in the same recording room as Brian had to be awe inspiring. Who wouldn't want to watch Dali or Picasso paint?

Good points.

One thing that I am interested in is any possible info that can be found regarding what they thought of it THEN rather than several years after the fact when Brian became a genius rather than a new young producer they were working with ... know what I mean? everyone gushes over Brian now but did they then? that's what I mean.

That's going to be tough, unless you can find some old interview with those session guys, and even then because Brian was an employer, they wouldn't say anything negative in public. I have read that some of the string players didn't like wearing the fire helmets. But hey, some of the classical musicians didn't like working on Sgt Pepper either. Good luck with your search.

[Ebb and Flow]

One thing that I am interested in is any possible info that can be found regarding what they thought of it THEN rather than several years after the fact when Brian became a genius rather than a new young producer they were working with ... know what I mean? everyone gushes over Brian now but did they then? that's what I mean.

You simply aren't going to find interviews from the wrecking crew during that period.

Listening to sessions, it's hard to really gauge what their opinion of Brian was.  I think some of the jazz oriented guys saw him as another goofy rock & roll kid and couldn't care less about what they were playing, and others knew the music was different and more sophisticated.  You have to realize most of these people played for Phil Spector, so working for someone like Brian must have been like a breath of fresh air.  I don't think they had many complaints.

As for Brian's modular recording technique, I don't think they minded or really cared what he did when it came to things like that.  A lot these musicians did 30 to 15 second commercial jingles.  It was a job.  When it came to things like Good Vibrations, to them it was more work, and in many cases it was to avoid the frustrating night-long sessions like California Girls and others during the '65 period that were extremely difficult to cut in a single take.  In the case of Cabin Essense for instance, all of the sectioning off wasn't to be avant garde like Good Vibrations, but to make it easier to cut all of the parts of the track in the shortest time possible.

[nobody]

 In the case of Cabin Essense for instance, all of the sectioning off wasn't to be avant garde like Good Vibrations, but to make it easier to cut all of the parts of the track in the shortest time possible.

I agree and disagree here. Oh boy. I think he cut the SMiLE pieces like that for both reasons: to make all the pieces available to him like paints that he could blend together at a later time AND to get it all done quickly rather than spending hours smoothing out the transitions between the different parts of the songs (which he didn't even have planned out fully, anyway).

[Chris Brown]

 In the case of Cabin Essense for instance, all of the sectioning off wasn't to be avant garde like Good Vibrations, but to make it easier to cut all of the parts of the track in the shortest time possible.

I agree and disagree here. Oh boy. I think he cut the SMiLE pieces like that for both reasons: to make all the pieces available to him like paints that he could blend together at a later time AND to get it all done quickly rather than spending hours smoothing out the transitions between the different parts of the songs (which he didn't even have planned out fully, anyway).

Ease of editing was certainly one reason, but I think it was a very small part of why Brian worked that way.  He had just seen his first truly modular composition (GV) become a huge worldwide smash, with the industry praising him for finding the "new sound."  You can bet that the success of "Good Vibrations" led him to use the technique on even more of his songs, like "Cabinessence," because he wanted to see how far he could take it.  I really don't think that he did it because it would be easier or quicker to edit together; that was merely a bonus.

[Mr. Wilson]

Hey AGD..Is Andreas the guy that got booted off the BBB board about year + a half ago for starting lots of arguments + disagreeing with insiders about just about anything..?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Hey AGD..Is Andreas the guy that got booted off the BBB board about year + a half ago for starting lots of arguments + disagreeing with insiders about just about anything..?

Better known as Walfisch, then Bobby California. Renowned for knowing precisely nothing about anything. 

[nobody]

well it's not me, although he sounds like a fun gy

[Ebb and Flow]

Ease of editing was certainly one reason, but I think it was a very small part of why Brian worked that way.  He had just seen his first truly modular composition (GV) become a huge worldwide smash, with the industry praising him for finding the "new sound."  You can bet that the success of "Good Vibrations" led him to use the technique on even more of his songs, like "Cabinessence," because he wanted to see how far he could take it.  I really don't think that he did it because it would be easier or quicker to edit together; that was merely a bonus.

I don't think all the Smile songs are exactly created equal in this way.  Certainly stuff like Heroes and Villains was cut in sections, and likely never had any sort of concrete master plan for how the thing would be on the final record.  But I don't think the structure of something like Cabin Essence was ever really up in the air in the same way.

[Mr. Wilson]

was the Grand  Coolie  Damn section of cabinessence ALLWAYS a part of that song..??,,Not sure

[Ebb and Flow]

AFAIK, yes, as I'm pretty certain that all of the pieces of the track to Cabin Essence were recorded at one session on October 3rd, 1966.  A test acetate from December '66 is floating around with the same structure as the 20/20 version.

[Chris Brown]

Ease of editing was certainly one reason, but I think it was a very small part of why Brian worked that way.  He had just seen his first truly modular composition (GV) become a huge worldwide smash, with the industry praising him for finding the "new sound."  You can bet that the success of "Good Vibrations" led him to use the technique on even more of his songs, like "Cabinessence," because he wanted to see how far he could take it.  I really don't think that he did it because it would be easier or quicker to edit together; that was merely a bonus.

I don't think all the Smile songs are exactly created equal in this way.  Certainly stuff like Heroes and Villains was cut in sections, and likely never had any sort of concrete master plan for how the thing would be on the final record.  But I don't think the structure of something like Cabin Essence was ever really up in the air in the same way.

Of course "Good Vibrations" was a more experimental type of recording, and Brian didn't have a clear idea of how he wanted it to turn out until near the end.  But I think after he did that record, Brian felt more confident about working that way, to the point where he could go in and record exactly the pieces he wanted, all the while knowing how the end product would sound.  So while "Cabinessence" didn't come about exactly like "Good Vibrations" experimentation wise, I think Brian wanted the freedom that cutting in sections allowed him.  I just can't imagine the reason being that he wanted to make editing the track easier.

[Ebb and Flow]

Eh, it's not really worth arguing about, since it's pretty subjective anyway.  I just think it's pretty clear by the time Brian started recording in sections in 1966 (Starting with the outro for I'm Waiting For The Day and the instrumental break/ending of Here Today) that he was more interested in cutting the track in the quickest and most convenient way possible.  Listening to the session for California Girls, 44 takes which are spent mostly hacking through the difficult intro, you can sense the frustration in the air from not only Brian, but from the WC as well.  Cutting the tracks in sections potentially gave him freedom later on, but it also avoided frustrating sessions like that one.

[variable2]

Eh, it's not really worth arguing about, since it's pretty subjective anyway.  I just think it's pretty clear by the time Brian started recording in sections in 1966 (Starting with the outro for I'm Waiting For The Day and the instrumental break/ending of Here Today) that he was more interested in cutting the track in the quickest and most convenient way possible.  Listening to the session for California Girls, 44 takes which are spent mostly hacking through the difficult intro, you can sense the frustration in the air from not only Brian, but from the WC as well.  Cutting the tracks in sessions potentially gave him freedom later on, but it also avoided frustrating sessions like that one.

That's a great session to listen to.

[Day Tripper]

Eh, it's not really worth arguing about, since it's pretty subjective anyway.  I just think it's pretty clear by the time Brian started recording in sections in 1966 (Starting with the outro for I'm Waiting For The Day and the instrumental break/ending of Here Today) that he was more interested in cutting the track in the quickest and most convenient way possible.  Listening to the session for California Girls, 44 takes which are spent mostly hacking through the difficult intro, you can sense the frustration in the air from not only Brian, but from the WC as well.  Cutting the tracks in sessions potentially gave him freedom later on, but it also avoided frustrating sessions like that one.

That's a great session to listen to.

 Where canI find/buy that? I love listening to my Pet Sounds' box set, with all those studio banter tracks.