complete mono mix of cabinessence?

[nobody]

I'm kind of one of those mono freaks. The only versions of "Cabinessence" I've heard are the stereo mixes on 20/20 and the Good Vibrations Box Set and the various bootleg ones. I've heard pieces of the song in mono but no complete track with a good mono mix. I think magic is possible with mono - look at "Good Vibrations" or, you know, Pet Sounds.

[nobody]

also - i'm a bit ignorant on the topic - what would a mono mix of BWPS sound like if ever done (so unlikely as to not even hope)? there's something about a really great mono mix that effects me much more than a great stereo mix. i don't know how to explain it. it's like the blend of the sounds, when mixed perfectly, has such a great effect when played on a good stereo. very powerful.

[Wrightfan]

I always thought it was so weird that's there many SMiLE tracks that lack a mono mix (Cabinessence, I Ran, OMP-YAMS, Child, etc...)

I'd be interested in why this is as well.

[Chris Brown]

I would love to hear a mono mix of "Cabinessence" as well, but I'm not sure we're likely to get it (perhaps on a Smile box-set?).  You could probably do a fold-down of the duphonic 20/20 mix, but there's nothing like an authentic Brian Wilson mono mix. 

[nobody]

You could probably do a fold-down of the duphonic 20/20 mix, but there's nothing like an authentic Brian Wilson mono mix. 

exactly. there are certain things you can do to great effect in mono that are actually more difficult in stereo. like if you wanted one particular sound to jump out over everything else, that would work much better in mono than stereo. SMiLE always seemed like that sort of album to me, where things are buried in the sound. crystal clear stereo mixes make it fragmented in many ways.

since brian is deaf in one ear or partially deaf or whatever the story is with that, i'd love for him to go into the studio one weekend and do a mono mix of BWPS for himself ... and then leak it to me. can brian even listen to BWPS and hear it very well? what would he hear since it has a wide stereo range? how can he even know if it sounds good if he only has one ear that hears well?

[Andrew G. Doe]

  You could probably do a fold-down of the duphonic 20/20 mix, but there's nothing like an authentic Brian Wilson mono mix. 

There is no duophonic mix (duophonic isn't a mix, anyway - it's a process): stereo and mono fold-down, that's all.

[runnersdialzero]

I always thought it was so weird that's there many SMiLE tracks that lack a mono mix

Why is that? It was never finished, thus never mixed, thus it's obvious why Brian's mono only mixing process doesn't apply to many tracks.

[hypehat]

You could probably do a fold-down of the duphonic 20/20 mix, but there's nothing like an authentic Brian Wilson mono mix. 

exactly. there are certain things you can do to great effect in mono that are actually more difficult in stereo. like if you wanted one particular sound to jump out over everything else, that would work much better in mono than stereo. SMiLE always seemed like that sort of album to me, where things are buried in the sound. crystal clear stereo mixes make it fragmented in many ways.

Exactly - listen to how THICK the track to '66 H&V sounds compared to the BWPS version, because everything is playing either that bassline or just those big chords - it loses a lot of power on BWPS because everythings spread out....

[Chris Brown]

  You could probably do a fold-down of the duphonic 20/20 mix, but there's nothing like an authentic Brian Wilson mono mix. 

There is no duophonic mix (duophonic isn't a mix, anyway - it's a process): stereo and mono fold-down, that's all.

Thanks Andrew...I've honestly never really known what the term meant, although now that I've looked around and read a bit about it, it would seem that to create the duophonic mix, there had to be an original mono mix done to work from, right?  If they still have the masters, couldn't they just re-master using the mono track that was used for the duophonic mix?

[Andrew G. Doe]

  You could probably do a fold-down of the duphonic 20/20 mix, but there's nothing like an authentic Brian Wilson mono mix. 

There is no duophonic mix (duophonic isn't a mix, anyway - it's a process): stereo and mono fold-down, that's all.

Thanks Andrew...I've honestly never really known what the term meant, although now that I've looked around and read a bit about it, it would seem that to create the duophonic mix, there had to be an original mono mix done to work from, right?  If they still have the masters, couldn't they just re-master using the mono track that was used for the duophonic mix?

Firstly, for a brief description of DuoPhonic, I can heartily recommend this outstanding web page -

http://www.btinternet.com/~bellagio/monostereo.html 

Secondly, there never was a mono master for "Cabinessence" - the UK mono release of 20/20 (and Friends too, for that matter) isn't a pukka mono mix but just the stereo version collapsed - or folded down - from two channels to one.

[nobody]

You could probably do a fold-down of the duphonic 20/20 mix, but there's nothing like an authentic Brian Wilson mono mix.  

exactly. there are certain things you can do to great effect in mono that are actually more difficult in stereo. like if you wanted one particular sound to jump out over everything else, that would work much better in mono than stereo. SMiLE always seemed like that sort of album to me, where things are buried in the sound. crystal clear stereo mixes make it fragmented in many ways.

Exactly - listen to how THICK the track to '66 H&V sounds compared to the BWPS version, because everything is playing either that bassline or just those big chords - it loses a lot of power on BWPS because everythings spread out....

I agree. This is perhaps my biggest problem with BWPS. I don't like that it's in stereo. Obviously I'm dreaming if I think it should be in mono in 2004 but still... the old recordings have a big sound without sounding like the sort of big on BWPS which I blame on the spacious stereo mix among other things. when I fold it down to mono I find it more comfortable to listen to, however the mix is then very imperfect for obvious reasons.

i love a good mono mix, i love how a lead vocal can sail over the entire mix of instruments and backing vocals - something Brian mastered IMO. consider all the layers of backing vox on Do You Like Worms, especially on the (i think) second verse sections and then the hawaiin chant part. just layers that are barely audible yet add an unmistakable tangible presence to the track ... totally absent on BWPS since the vocals are all over the L & R stereo image. when I said i find the mono more "comfortable" - I think that's it, you know. I can play mono very loud and not feel overwhelmed by the sound, but sometimes a wide stereo mix feels too busy in a way and not enjoyable for me.

i'm not saying that i like mono unconditionally - if i were to listen to, say, Pet Sounds to study it musically then i would use the stereo mixes which bring a lot of space and clarity to the recordings. but if i wanted the experience, there's no choice - mono all the way. IJWMFTT mono and IJWMFTT stereo are different songs as far as i'm concerned. ya dig?

i'm going to listen to BWPS in mono now just for kicks. i know what you mean about H&V, the original tape captured such a forceful, rolling sound - BWPS sounds kind of ... i think it's the bass tone that's lacking, it doesn't have as much low end filling it out, and of course the stereo mix makes it sound fragmented, when Brian was really arranging with how everything would combine in a mono mix in mind, not stereo

edit: listening now. a novel way to listen to BWPS i find is to 1) force mono and 2) cut back heavily on all the high end EQ, like i'm using winamp right now and pretty much brought 12-16k all the way down to remove some of that glossy shine that ruins BWPS. sounds good man. sounds real good, actually. a good stereo mix should be able to collapse into mono and not lose much of the mix - i.e., not sound absurd if played on mono radio or whatever, and BWPS is pretty good in that regard, although i'd love to go in a studio and mix this myself in mono to my own liking. i suggest you try my mono + remove high end EQ, btw, it sounds surprisingly more listenable than normal.

[?]

Isn't the 20/20 version just stereo vocals over a mono backing track or am I mistaken?

[Chris Brown]

  You could probably do a fold-down of the duphonic 20/20 mix, but there's nothing like an authentic Brian Wilson mono mix. 

There is no duophonic mix (duophonic isn't a mix, anyway - it's a process): stereo and mono fold-down, that's all.

Thanks Andrew...I've honestly never really known what the term meant, although now that I've looked around and read a bit about it, it would seem that to create the duophonic mix, there had to be an original mono mix done to work from, right?  If they still have the masters, couldn't they just re-master using the mono track that was used for the duophonic mix?

Firstly, for a brief description of DuoPhonic, I can heartily recommend this outstanding web page -

http://www.btinternet.com/~bellagio/monostereo.html 

Secondly, there never was a mono master for "Cabinessence" - the UK mono release of 20/20 (and Friends too, for that matter) isn't a pukka mono mix but just the stereo version collapsed - or folded down - from two channels to one.

Thanks Andrew, that page was quite informative.  It seems that duophonic was the mastering equivalent of the automatic double tracking system that the Beatles often used.  I'm not always a fan of Beach Boys stereo mixes, but they are almost always preferable to duophonic.

I guess what I was getting at originally was that in order to produce a duophonic mix, there had to be a mono mix to work from, right?  Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like there would have to be a mono mix that would then be given the duophonic treatment.  Thus, if they still have the masters, I figured there could be a mono mix on there that was used to create the duophonic.

[Andrew G. Doe]

  You could probably do a fold-down of the duphonic 20/20 mix, but there's nothing like an authentic Brian Wilson mono mix. 

There is no duophonic mix (duophonic isn't a mix, anyway - it's a process): stereo and mono fold-down, that's all.

Thanks Andrew...I've honestly never really known what the term meant, although now that I've looked around and read a bit about it, it would seem that to create the duophonic mix, there had to be an original mono mix done to work from, right?  If they still have the masters, couldn't they just re-master using the mono track that was used for the duophonic mix?

Firstly, for a brief description of DuoPhonic, I can heartily recommend this outstanding web page -

http://www.btinternet.com/~bellagio/monostereo.html 

Secondly, there never was a mono master for "Cabinessence" - the UK mono release of 20/20 (and Friends too, for that matter) isn't a pukka mono mix but just the stereo version collapsed - or folded down - from two channels to one.

Thanks Andrew, that page was quite informative.  It seems that duophonic was the mastering equivalent of the automatic double tracking system that the Beatles often used.  I'm not always a fan of Beach Boys stereo mixes, but they are almost always preferable to duophonic.

I guess what I was getting at originally was that in order to produce a duophonic mix, there had to be a mono mix to work from, right?  Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like there would have to be a mono mix that would then be given the duophonic treatment.  Thus, if they still have the masters, I figured there could be a mono mix on there that was used to create the duophonic.

Correct, has to be a mono master for Capitol to f*** up. 

[runnersdialzero]

Stereo doesn't have to mean thin sounding, though :\