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Author Topic: Mike's musical abilities  (Read 23088 times)
Dr. Tim
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« Reply #100 on: September 30, 2009, 01:34:07 PM »

Actually, Right Rev. nobody, you put the rabbit in the hat when you said:

"Obviously I'm not excusing any of them or Manson from those murders - they did it, Manson arranged it and played a small hand"

Precisely my point. Manson was so dismissive of his "family" that he made them do the deeds for him, so he wouldn't get his hands dirty, that's how much control he had.  As in: Look what I can do!!  And we are to believe Manson has been wrongfully characterized over the  years based on what he himself tells us?   You really think he's going to give a straight answer to anything ever?  Not in this life.  Dude, read the post again: this is how these guys operate.   And I'm not being pejorative.  These guys are really good at what they do.   It's how they get their jollies.  They can be very persuasive, especially with good-hearted people who have no reason to know who they're dealing with.  That's why some - like Madoff or that rapist molester guy Phil Garrido - get away with it for so many years.  (And n.b.: some commit no violent acts at all; they're not all serial killers - though Bundy was).

Boy that Mike sure plays a mean mini-Moog, don't he?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2009, 01:36:16 PM by Dr. Tim » Logged

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« Reply #101 on: September 30, 2009, 08:33:21 PM »

I find it kind of funny that somehow a thread about Mike's musical abilities has evolved into Charlie Manson talk. Is Mike's music that bad?
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"Over the years, I've been accused of not supporting our new music from this era (67-73) and just wanting to play our hits. That's complete b.s......I was also, as the front man, the one promoting these songs onstage and have the scars to show for it."
Mike Love autobiography (pg 242-243)
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« Reply #102 on: October 01, 2009, 04:04:11 AM »

Yes, Mike sucks as a musician/songwriter and that's a fact. He has no idea how to be original. At best, his music is imitative, competently performed bland pop. His playing itself is unremarkable, if he even tries. DO NOT LISTEN TO MIKE'S MUSIC IF AT ALL POSSIBLE. Life is too short and there is better music out there.
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« Reply #103 on: October 01, 2009, 05:16:53 AM »

Yes, Mike sucks as a musician/songwriter and that's a fact. He has no idea how to be original. At best, his music is imitative, competently performed bland pop. His playing itself is unremarkable, if he even tries. DO NOT LISTEN TO MIKE'S MUSIC IF AT ALL POSSIBLE. Life is too short and there is better music out there.

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Shady
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« Reply #104 on: October 01, 2009, 07:12:59 AM »

I find it kind of funny that somehow a thread about Mike's musical abilities has evolved into Charlie Manson talk. Is Mike's music that bad?

Like with The Beatles Manson is gonna be that really annoying thing hovering over there legacy.

Especially now the Manson myth is growing with every passing year.
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« Reply #105 on: October 01, 2009, 07:50:08 AM »

I think Mike had some real talent in the 60"s+then let..$$$$$$$..get in the way...He may have been right about the power of the oldies..BUT..The way they mixed in new music in 70"s was the way to go..Since then Mike allways gets his way..Lost interest in him after that on a personal level..
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Nicko1234
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« Reply #106 on: October 01, 2009, 09:05:13 AM »

Seems like the differentiation between Mike the person and Mike the songwriter have become blurred in this thread...

To sum up my feelings, I think Mike was a great collaborator for Brian in the 60s and was obviously an important part of the band`s success. Not at the same level as Brian of course, but from Surfin` onwards he proved adept at writing lyrics which perfectly fitted with Brian`s music and certainly helped it to be commercially successful. Then, as the band`s music changed, he proved that he could write about other themes; not just with Brian, but also with Bruce, Dennis, Al, Carl and solo.

I think that throughout the band`s history though, some of the group`s biggest successes have also proved to be negative influences. The message that must have kept coming back to Mike was that the public were only interested in the hits and fun in the sun songs. Do It Again was an early signal of that and it was confirmed with Endless Summer and Spirit of America. It`s certainly not surprising that Mike would try to pen several retreads after this, especially as a few of them proved successful (more successful than anything else the band released as singles). It`s unfortunate though because hearing 40 year-olds (or older) trying to pretend that they are still 20 is never pleasant.

When Mike has written about other themes he has proved that he still has ability as shown on his unreleased First Love and Unleash the Love albums and on some of the Celebration songs. But again the fact that these projects haven`t been successful (and that several Beach Boys albums like Sunflower and Love You weren`t successful either) is another indication that people just want the hits. Mike is not alone in discovering that obviously as when Al started touring he initially intended to play several rarities before discovering that the demand wasn`t there. Even Brian has been forced into playing greatest hits sets and it`s a shame that the wants of the general public and the wants of the hardcore fans are so far apart and have been for several decades.

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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #107 on: October 01, 2009, 01:04:50 PM »

Seems like the differentiation between Mike the person and Mike the songwriter have become blurred in this thread...

To sum up my feelings, I think Mike was a great collaborator for Brian in the 60s and was obviously an important part of the band`s success. Not at the same level as Brian of course, but from Surfin` onwards he proved adept at writing lyrics which perfectly fitted with Brian`s music and certainly helped it to be commercially successful. Then, as the band`s music changed, he proved that he could write about other themes; not just with Brian, but also with Bruce, Dennis, Al, Carl and solo.

I think that throughout the band`s history though, some of the group`s biggest successes have also proved to be negative influences. The message that must have kept coming back to Mike was that the public were only interested in the hits and fun in the sun songs. Do It Again was an early signal of that and it was confirmed with Endless Summer and Spirit of America. It`s certainly not surprising that Mike would try to pen several retreads after this, especially as a few of them proved successful (more successful than anything else the band released as singles). It`s unfortunate though because hearing 40 year-olds (or older) trying to pretend that they are still 20 is never pleasant.

When Mike has written about other themes he has proved that he still has ability as shown on his unreleased First Love and Unleash the Love albums and on some of the Celebration songs. But again the fact that these projects haven`t been successful (and that several Beach Boys albums like Sunflower and Love You weren`t successful either) is another indication that people just want the hits. Mike is not alone in discovering that obviously as when Al started touring he initially intended to play several rarities before discovering that the demand wasn`t there. Even Brian has been forced into playing greatest hits sets and it`s a shame that the wants of the general public and the wants of the hardcore fans are so far apart and have been for several decades.



Excellent post. You summed it up very well. The only thing that I take some exception to is that I don't think the 40-year olds (or older) were "trying to pretend that they are still 20..."

I don't think playing the early "surf & turf" songs as middle-aged men implies that they were/are pretending to be THAT age or even younger than they actually are. I see it as giving the people what they want, much like Paul McCartney does when performing "I Saw Her Standing There", or Ray Davies singing "You Really Got Me", or even Lou Reed reprising "Walk On The Wild Side". They aren't pretending, they're entertaining.
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Nicko1234
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« Reply #108 on: October 01, 2009, 03:44:19 PM »


Excellent post. You summed it up very well. The only thing that I take some exception to is that I don't think the 40-year olds (or older) were "trying to pretend that they are still 20..."

I don't think playing the early "surf & turf" songs as middle-aged men implies that they were/are pretending to be THAT age or even younger than they actually are. I see it as giving the people what they want, much like Paul McCartney does when performing "I Saw Her Standing There", or Ray Davies singing "You Really Got Me", or even Lou Reed reprising "Walk On The Wild Side". They aren't pretending, they're entertaining.

Sorry, I should have clarified that what I really meant there was that when Mike was songwriting he started to do that on songs like Some of Your Love, Summer of Love and dozens of others sadly.
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oldsurferdude
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« Reply #109 on: October 01, 2009, 07:29:58 PM »

Yes, Mike sucks as a musician/songwriter and that's a fact. He has no idea how to be original. At best, his music is imitative, competently performed bland pop. His playing itself is unremarkable, if he even tries. DO NOT LISTEN TO MIKE'S MUSIC IF AT ALL POSSIBLE. Life is too short and there is better music out there.
you rock, man Ahhh! Ahhh! Ahhh! Ahhh! Ahhh! Ahhh! Ahhh! Ahhh! Ahhh! Ahhh! Ahhh! Ahhh!
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the captain
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« Reply #110 on: October 02, 2009, 03:38:23 PM »

Lou Reed reprising "Walk On The Wild Side". They aren't pretending, they're entertaining.

Ever seen Lou live? He doesn't tend to over-extend himself on the oldies especially. Maybe Berlin tour aside (from what I've seen), he doesn't even put in enough energy to consider it half-assing those songs. When I saw him here, he probably sang about nine words to Perfect Day. Not even key words.

"... day ... sangria ... such a ... home ... SHUTTHEFUCKUP ... it's ..."
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« Reply #111 on: October 02, 2009, 04:35:34 PM »

Lou Reed reprising "Walk On The Wild Side". They aren't pretending, they're entertaining.

Ever seen Lou live? He doesn't tend to over-extend himself on the oldies especially. Maybe Berlin tour aside (from what I've seen), he doesn't even put in enough energy to consider it half-assing those songs. When I saw him here, he probably sang about nine words to Perfect Day. Not even key words.

"... day ... sangria ... such a ... home ... SHUTTHEFUCKUP ... it's ..."

Never saw him in person, but, of course, have seen him on TV. Also, Lou Reed Live/Rock & Roll Animal are two of my favorite Lou albums.

I know what you're talking about regarding Lou "over-extending himself". But he's so up-and-down. He'll completely disappoint  with a performance of "Perfect Day" - hitting NO notes. Then, he'll tear into "Sweet Jane" and win you right back!
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the captain
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« Reply #112 on: October 02, 2009, 04:38:29 PM »

Those mid-70s albums were a wholly different thing, though. That was a character made for the stage introducing a lot of people to music many of them had never heard. Since he became a legend, he seems more determined to bury the legendary stuff, or rather force the newer material, in his live shows. I don't blame him, I'm just saying that is my impression. He's the same in interviews. I've read ridiculous things. Interviewer asks him about "Sweet Jane." "I don't know. Next question."
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« Reply #113 on: October 02, 2009, 04:46:21 PM »

He's the same in interviews. I've read ridiculous things. Interviewer asks him about "Sweet Jane." "I don't know. Next question."

It's interesting that you would mention Lou's interviews, because I agree with you, he's a lot the same way in them as his songs. Sometimes he will tell stories that will blow me away, very profound. Then, sometimes, he'll completely obliterate another question with bullmerda, and I'm wondering, is this some kind of image he's trying to establish or manipulate? Very frustrating at times....
« Last Edit: October 02, 2009, 04:58:58 PM by Sheriff John Stone » Logged
the captain
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« Reply #114 on: October 02, 2009, 05:28:18 PM »

Clearly an image, yes.
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« Reply #115 on: October 04, 2009, 12:15:03 AM »

Manson and pedophilia FTW !!!
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« Reply #116 on: October 04, 2009, 02:50:45 AM »

I think it's better to get back "on topic".


Manson and pedophilia FTW !!!

Nobody, I don't know what you meant to say or achieve with this reply, but it would be appreciated if you think before you actually post a remark like this. It's not beneficial to the topic at all.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2009, 03:52:04 AM by SMiLE-Holland » Logged

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