Brian Wilson - Genius?

[Reverend Joshua Sloane]

This seems to be a major factor in drawing in new fans to the music of the Beach Boys. As i've been studying his songs and productions i've become a little more wary of the big "G" title he's often given.

Brian said that he himself was only a hard working guy. Murry said his son wasn't a genius, but very close to one. (Though i'm not sure where the proximity to genius, and just immense talent and work exchange).

What do you think?

[Wirestone]

What has made you more wary of calling Brian the G word?

I think just about any sense of the word includes Brian (Merriam-Webster: "extraordinary intellectual power especially as manifested in creative activity"). I use it seldom, however, because it's cliche. About any musician who uses more than three chords and has recorded a concept - y album has been called a genius.

[jabba2]

Yes he was.

[JScott]

Read this before you make up your mind:

http://www.cabinessence.net/essays/FinalThesis[1].doc

Not sure the link works like this...might have to do it the long way.

Cab site - writings - BW Genius or Hard-Working guy.

[Ron]

I would say Brian was definately a genius.  He was also a very hard working guy.  The difference is, no matter how hard some people work, they never could have pulled off some of the stuff he did... and some of the creative ideas he came up with were nothing short of inspired.  So without getting too technical and just speaking on what my gist of the word 'genius' is... basically Brian had a extra spark that made him unique, and for that reason I have no problem calling him a genius.  I would throw that word at the best in practically any field.  Bill Gates I would call a genius.  Whoever invented "Pac-Man" I would consider a genius.  Etc. 

BTW, Brian and Murray have been quoted as saying several different things about Brian being a genius.  Murray said "I'm a genius too, Brian" on those bootlegs, didn't he?  And in an interview they played on XM radio a few weeks ago, Brian said that he loved hearing people call him a genius, it makes him feel appreciated.  So I think you get a different story from him (like everything) depending on what day of the week you ask him. 

[NimrodsSon]

Genius. Nobody but a genius could come up with the melodies and arrangements (vocal and instrumental) that he came up with, and nobody but a genius could have produced the incredible tracks he produced. All you have to do to know he's a genius is listen to "Bycycle Rider." Only a genius could write that melody. It's SOOOOOOO simplistic, as is the chord progression, yet it's one of the most beautiful, wonderful, wholesome things on this earth. And if you aren't convinced after listening to "Roll Plymouth Rock," just go listen to "Radio King Dom"...

[TV Forces]

Brian said that he himself was only a hard working guy.

That just means he's humble/modest.  If he was walking around
calling himself a genius, he'd be as annoying as Kanye West.

Brian Wilson IS a musical genius!

[Surfer Joe]

I'll give you Brian Wilson's genius in a nutshell: listen to the intro to "Wouldn't It Be Nice"- especially the single heavy beat.  Who else would have done that- or done anything half as good?  People go through whole careers without an idea that good.  But Brian had ideas that good every day for years and occasionally still does.

Give that song to 100 producers and 99 of them would have played the same standard intro that Brian shot down in the session.  That's the difference between an artist and a craftsman, but when it reaches the level and the frequency that Brian reached it's pure genius.

Listen to the vocal arrangement on "Can't Wait Too Long".  Is that just hard work?  How come nobody else could ever do it?

"Genius is looking at something everyone else sees and seeing something no one else saw."

Can't remember who said it, but substitute "listening" and "hears" for "looking" and "sees", etc. and you get Brian.

[the captain]

Trying to sum someone up in one word is a sure way to misunderstand him or her, I think.

This thread is too much like the old "Is Brian crazy?" thread. Oversimplified, too many connotations people take from the word, etc. Doesn't matter.

[Surfer Joe]

I slightly disagree.  I think it's a reasonable question.

[TheLazenby]

Listen to "Brian Wilson Presents 'Smile'".  Try to imagine songs like that coming out of anybody else.  Then ask yourself if Brian is a genius - the question is obvious.

[Daniel S.]

Who cares?

[Jason]

Brian isn't a genius. He didn't invent the wheel or come up with the theory of relativity. He just made a lot of good music. Hard workin' guy.

[Ron]

So then since you won't extend genius to the musical world, Beethoven was not a genius, correct?  Mozart?  Bach?  You don't have to be a scientist to be a genius, in my opinion. 

[Jason]

Brian isn't in the same league as Beethoven, Mozart, or Bach, I'm afraid. Just my opinion.

[JRauch]

"Brian isn't in the same league as Beethoven, Mozart, or Bach, I'm afraid."

Honestly, I´m not so sure about that. Brian CAN be as good as them, and I´m very aware what that means. Just listen to "God Only Knows", "Our Prayer", "Mrs O'Learys Cow" or "Wonderful". How can anyone write BETTER music than this? Maybe different. Or more complex. But not better.

[Jason]

I'm sorry our opinions differ, but Brian's music doesn't move me like Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, or even Chopin. They have a bigger and better claim to the genius tag than Brian does, in my opinion. I don't care what all the fans or David Leaf has to say. Brian is not a genius, and he's NOT in the same league as the aforementioned composers. Brian's greatness is based on roughly 5 years of material, these composers were great for 20, 30, 40 years.

[TV Forces]

Brian's greatness is based on roughly 5 years of material, these composers were great for 20, 30, 40 years.

If so, those 5 years touched more musicians and more normal folks' hearts then any other songwriter..  Good luck finding another musician with this much critical respect.  He's a living legend that changed things, changed how people created music, and influenced a couple generations now.  He was original and unique and the stories of his ability from friends and co-workers, to pick up notes and write and arrange..  nothing to be "afraid" about.. the guy is a gem.

[JRauch]

I don´t think that "genuis" is about the lenght of a career. If Beethoven would have written only the 9th and nothing else, wouldn´t he still be a genuis?

And I have to say that "Til I Die" or "Surfer Girl" moves me more than anything Bach or Beethoven ever did. (I don´t mention Mozart, because his Requiem KILLS!)

Maybe the term "genuis" is about how many people agree on the greatness. I guess in the end it´s all about opinions.

[Jason]

If so, those 5 years touched more musicians and more normal folks' hearts then any other songwriter..  Good luck finding another musician with this much critical respect.  He's a living legend that changed things, changed how people created music, and influenced a couple generations now.  He was original and unique and the stories of his ability from friends and co-workers, to pick up notes and write and arrange..  nothing to be "afraid" about.. the guy is a gem.

Who cares about critical respect? Really, who gives a flying f*** what the critics think? Doesn't the music stand up on its own?

You're not telling me anything I don't already know. I'm a fan, I've read it all, seen it all about the man. I just don't think musicians are geniuses. Music isn't high art. Einstein was a genius.

[Jason]

I don´t think that "genuis" is about the lenght of a career. If Beethoven would have written only the 9th and nothing else, wouldn´t he still be a genuis?

And I have to say that "Til I Die" or "Surfer Girl" moves me more than anything Bach or Beethoven ever did. (I don´t mention Mozart, because his Requiem KILLS!)

Maybe the term "genuis" is about how many people agree on the greatness. I guess in the end it´s all about opinions.

Who said it was about the length of a career? I said greatness could be determined by the length of the career. Beethoven's 9th isn't even his best material. His Romance For Violin in F Major is far more moving and far more majestic, in my opinion.

About 'Til I Die and Surfer Girl, that's good for you. We all have our opinions.

If the term genius is about how many people agree on the greatness, then that would make the Beatles, Bob Dylan, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, and the Doors geniuses. Genius is a tag given to people of higher intelligence. Brian is not one of those people.

[JRauch]

"Genius is a tag given to people of higher intelligence."

Genius is a tag given to people of truly OUTSTANDING talent. It doesn´t matter if it´s in science, music, poetry, chess etc. I guess we will always disagree about that subject.

[Jason]

"Genius is a tag given to people of higher intelligence."

Genius is a tag given to people of truly OUTSTANDING talent. It doesn´t matter if it´s in science, music, poetry, chess etc. I guess we will always disagree about that subject.

Then why is it agreed upon that people with an IQ above 160 are geniuses? I'm talking in the literal sense, you're talking in the erotic/artistic sense.

[JRauch]

  Ok, outstanding talent AND/OR intelligence.

[Jason]

Ok, outstanding talent AND/OR intelligence.

Ok, there's no need to be a smartass just because we don't agree. I don't roll my eyes at you, sir.