Brian´s new Songs...

[mtaber]

Johnny Carson is brilliant...

That Same Song almost brilliant...

[Wrightfan]

Yeah, I think the idea of buying songs from other writers is far fetched. I guess that Brian contributed different amounts to each song with some of them being mainly Scott`s. Midnight`s Another Day, for example, is probably 75% Scott`s song.

Scotty wrote the intro and outro (and the lyric, of course) - the rest is Brian's work.

That surprises me. That piano intro is very "Brian-y"

Well done Mr. Bennett!

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Agreed. I hope Scott becomes a permanent collaborator for Brian. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that Scott is Brian's best collaborator since Van Dyke Parks during the original Smile album. Can you imagine if Bennett today could work with the Brian of the late 60s-early 70s?

[nobody]

Agreed. I hope Scott becomes a permanent collaborator for Brian. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that Scott is Brian's best collaborator since Van Dyke Parks during the original Smile album. Can you imagine if Bennett today could work with the Brian of the late 60s-early 70s?

Who did Brian work with doing tracks like Sail On Sailor? I think that sort of thing was another peak in his collaborations. I dunno if Scott has the depth to offer up any profound words, no offense to him.

[Surfer Joe]

My mistake- I meant "Still I Dream Of It"- good melody, godawful lyric.  

Forgive me if this next thing sounds harsh; I'm just throwing this out here for discussion.   And I know this puts me at tremendous odds with a lot of folks in the next generation of Brian's fans, too, but I've never gotten the pretending that "Johnny Carson" and stuff like that is "brilliant".   To me it's sort of demeaning to him and what remains of his dignity. That material is the product of some dark problems he was going through, and I'll always hold it a little against the whole band for letting it get out there in that form. If Brian had actually died as a result of that period- coked himself to death, or dug his grave and leaped from the roof into it-  I wonder if we'd find his unraveling so cool. I don't know, maybe it'd be more so.  

In about 1990 there was an independent label tribute CD with some good stuff on it, but one band turned in a mocking version of "Johnny Carson".  Some tribute to Brian. That's what they got of his career?  Really? I hated 'em for that.

I just can't stand seeing the guy who wrote "Caroline, No" mock-revered for the lunatic emotional-problem stuff like "Johnny Carson".  The stuff that makes non-Beach Boys fans cringe makes me cringe even more. There, it's always bothered me, I said it, have at me.  I'm a spoilsport. Bring on the rotten tomatoes. Just one guy's opinion, anyway.

[Wirestone]

I don't think Johnny Carson comes from a particularly "dark period." It was written when Brian was cleaned up for the first time by Landy. He wrote a song about something that he liked. And I don't think Brian is an idiot -- it's not like he thought the song was a potential single or anything, or that it wasn't a least somewhat silly. Brian had written humor songs before -- Vegetables, for instance. I give him a little credit for knowing what he was doing.

Edit: I also don't know about it being brilliant, necessarily. It's peculiar. But it really encapsulates a certain vibe of "Love You." It's the farthest Brian went in a certain direction, and that's why folks dig it. I find much to enjoy in it personally, but not all the time. It's like a particularly pungent cheese. Good for a few bites every so often. Not a daily nosh.

[nobody]

My mistake- I meant "Still I Dream Of It"- good melody, godawful lyric.  

Forgive me if this next thing sounds harsh; I'm just throwing this out here for discussion.   And I know this puts me at tremendous odds with a lot of folks in the next generation of Brian's fans, too, but I've never gotten the pretending that "Johnny Carson" and stuff like that is "brilliant".   To me it's sort of demeaning to him and what remains of his dignity. That material is the product of some dark problems he was going through, and I'll always hold it a little against the whole band for letting it get out there in that form. If Brian had actually died as a result of that period- coked himself to death, or dug his grave and leaped from the roof into it-  I wonder if we'd find his unraveling so cool. I don't know, maybe it'd be more so.  

In about 1990 there was an independent label tribute CD with some good stuff on it, but one band turned in a mocking version of "Johnny Carson".  Some tribute to Brian. That's what they got of his career?  Really? I hated 'em for that.

I just can't stand seeing the guy who wrote "Caroline, No" mock-revered for the lunatic emotional-problem stuff like "Johnny Carson".  The stuff that makes non-Beach Boys fans cringe makes me cringe even more. There, it's always bothered me, I said it, have at me.  I'm a spoilsport. Bring on the rotten tomatoes. Just one guy's opinion, anyway.

In another thread or maybe this one or somewhere tonight there was some discussion about a tape with Brian playing piano with some friends or whoever around. He played some Ding Dang I think and someone asked which record it was from. "Beach Boys Love You" Brian said, then said something like "that thing was great" and everyone shared a knowing laugh.

[Surfer Joe]

I don't think Johnny Carson comes from a particularly "dark period." It was written when Brian was cleaned up for the first time by Landy. He wrote a song about something that he liked. And I don't think Brian is an idiot -- it's not like he thought the song was a potential single or anything, or that it wasn't a least somewhat silly. Brian had written humor songs before -- Vegetables, for instance. I give him a little credit for knowing what he was doing.

That's a fair enough point.  As to whether that was a dark period, though, read the Rolling Stone article around that time, or any other stuff- he was in awful shape mentally.  To me the song is the sound of a guy that's gone around the bend, but to compare it to "Vegetables" or "Bugged At My Ol' Man" is a fair point.

[Wirestone]

Well, "dark periods" for Brian have varying degrees. At the time of Love You he was at least up and around and coherent. He wasn't permanently in bed thinking Satan was coming out of the shower faucets.

Now, the questions as to whether or not the band should have put it out -- that's an entirely different issue and matter of debate. I think many of Brian's releases since the early 70s could have been rethought and issued differently. But that's another story.

[Surfer Joe]

I think he was under control with Landy in 1977, and living a healthier and more productive existence, but not really in a better place mentally beyond that.  Just an opinion, of course.  As to the rest of your comment, obviously, I agree.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I love it, but then again I'm a fan of Daniel Johnston, so that may be a part of it.

[nobody]

I always think of Love You as a collection of songs one might sing playfully with one's child or something like that. "Solar System" is just waiting to become someone's favorite childhood song. Perhaps if I sire children I will play them Love You a lot and see what they think.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

My 2 year old likes it.

[Mr. Cohen]

I like Love You. No, it's not his best, but I get the feeling Brian enjoyed making the songs, even if it was a dark period in his life. I think making those songs were, for the most past, the happier moments Brian had during that period - listen to the emotion he sings with on "Let's Put Our Hearts Together", or on the tag of "Roller Skating Child". It meant something to him. I don't think it's doing Brian a disservice to like the songs. Even during the famed SMiLE period, when he was at the height of his powers, he was recording songs like "Teeter Totter Love" (comparing love to a teeter totter) and using the raspy voiced Jasper Daily to sing it. Love You is a part of who Brian is, even if it's slightly exaggerated. It's only demeaning to Brian if you want to make him out to be something he's not, that fable about the guy wearing black-framed glasses and a pea coat and composing Pet Sounds. Yes, he was that for a year or two, but I don't think that represents who he is any more than the Love You period does.  Some fans want it to, but that doesn't make it the truth. Love him for who he is, not what you want him to be, and there is nothing to be embarrassed about.

[Nicko1234]

Brian may have messed around on side projects and joked around with the band in the studio, but until Smile Brian was almost always trying to grow up musically and right about more mature subjects. I think that`s the very reason he wanted to move away from the fun in the sun stuff and even songs about childhood like When I Grow Up were mature.

I don`t think a healthy Brian would ever have recorded some of the songs on Love You and I don`t think that a healthy group would have released that album (I think that inviting Brian back in the mid-70s to be the sole producer was the biggest mistake that the band made). There are certainly some songs on Love You that I like but not things like Johnny Carson, Solar System, I Wanna Pick You Up etc. People might say that these are Brian being Brian but I think more accurate is to say that they are a mentally ill man being mentally ill. Plus the fact that Landy was involved at the time and possibly contributing to the songs further erodes the innocence.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I don`t think a healthy Brian would ever have recorded some of the songs on Love You and I don`t think that a healthy group would have released that album (I think that inviting Brian back in the mid-70s to be the sole producer was the biggest mistake that the band made). There are certainly some songs on Love You that I like but not things like Johnny Carson, Solar System, I Wanna Pick You Up etc. People might say that these are Brian being Brian but I think more accurate is to say that they are a mentally ill man being mentally ill. Plus the fact that Landy was involved at the time and possibly contributing to the songs further erodes the innocence.

Agree and disagree.

I don't think the Love You songs wre too far removed from the songs that Brian had been writing since 1967 - "I'd Love Just Once To See You", "Be Here In The Morning", "Games Two Can Play", "Mt. Vernon And Fairway", and "Child Of Winter" to name a few. They were songs that Brian just sat down and got off his chest if you will. I'd bet they came to him very quickly and he cranked them out very quickly. He'd always done that to some extent. What was different about Love You was that were SO MANY OF 'EM TOGETHER ON ONE ALBUM! For the ten years previous to Love You, Brian was contributing a song or two or three to each album, so the effect wasn't as in your face. Love You can blow you away (which is what I like about it BTW).

Where I do agree with you, Nicko, is that the band should not have released Love You in that state. As you noted, the band was not healthy at that time. Actually, I think they were confused; they didn't know what to do with Brian. The group got a lot of critical backlash after 15 Big Ones. I think they were debating - do we intercede or just let the guy do his thing. And they let him do his thing. Can you imagine how Love You would've sounded without Carl's aid? I don't want to sound too oversimplistic (is that a word?), but if they would've done just a few more vocal takes, maybe on a better day, or overdub an additional voice/harmony here or there. Still, I love Love You anyway.....

[Nicko1234]

Agree and disagree.

I don't think the Love You songs wre too far removed from the songs that Brian had been writing since 1967 - "I'd Love Just Once To See You", "Be Here In The Morning", "Games Two Can Play", "Mt. Vernon And Fairway", and "Child Of Winter" to name a few. They were songs that Brian just sat down and got off his chest if you will. I'd bet they came to him very quickly and he cranked them out very quickly. He'd always done that to some extent. What was different about Love You was that were SO MANY OF 'EM TOGETHER ON ONE ALBUM! For the ten years previous to Love You, Brian was contributing a song or two or three to each album, so the effect wasn't as in your face. Love You can blow you away (which is what I like about it BTW).

Where I do agree with you, Nicko, is that the band should not have released Love You in that state. As you noted, the band was not healthy at that time. Actually, I think they were confused; they didn't know what to do with Brian. The group got a lot of critical backlash after 15 Big Ones. I think they were debating - do we intercede or just let the guy do his thing. And they let him do his thing. Can you imagine how Love You would've sounded without Carl's aid? I don't want to sound too oversimplistic (is that a word?), but if they would've done just a few more vocal takes, maybe on a better day, or overdub an additional voice/harmony here or there. Still, I love Love You anyway.....

I agree that Mount Vernon wasn`t too far removed from Love You but I think that song was another sign of Brian being unwell.

I don`t disagree as well that some of those songs needed vocal overdubs but I think the other BBs should have been even more involved in writing and production. Some of the lyrics (Solar System, Love is a Woman etc.) badly needed to be rewritten imo and other songs (I Wanna Pick You Up) just shouldn`t have been included at all. As a fan of the other members contributions to the band, I find it faintly depressing that they agreed to release this and 15 Big Ones and had lost confidence to such an extent that they were forced to perform some dismal material in concert.

[Dancing Bear]

In fact, I'd go as far as to say that Scott is Brian's best collaborator since Van Dyke Parks during the original Smile album.

Breakaway is better than anything in TLOS. So, Murry Wilson is a better collaborator than Scott.

Ok, enough of Monthy Python for today. 

[Sheriff John Stone]

....but I think the other BBs should have been even more involved in writing and production. Some of the lyrics (Solar System, Love is a Woman etc.) badly needed to be rewritten imo and other songs (I Wanna Pick You Up) just shouldn`t have been included at all.

But, then it wouldn't have been the Love You that we all know and love, would it? I mean, that's part of Love You's charm, the adult/child aspect of Brian's personality. It was an honest picture of Brian Wilson at age 33 in 1976-77. For me, and many other BB/BW fans, that will always be welcomed. I miss that actually, but that's for another thread.

In some ways, Love You was a concept album, and by mixing in contributions from others - productions, compositions, lyrics - that concept would've been compromised. And Love You's vibe would've been lost. But, Nicko, I understand where you're coming from. Hey, I bought Love You the day it was released, and I've read the criticisms for 32 years. I understand the criticisms, and, after many years, I guess I'm beginning to accept them. No problem....

[nobody]

In fact, I'd go as far as to say that Scott is Brian's best collaborator since Van Dyke Parks during the original Smile album.

Breakaway is better than anything in TLOS. So, Murry Wilson is a better collaborator than Scott.

Ok, enough of Monthy Python for today. 

That's no surprise. Murry rules. Without Murry there'd be no Beach Boys - fact! (well, very logical assumption!).

And Brian doesn't deny his dad's musical influence. It's not odd to me at all that together they churned out a good song. I find it touching, actually. Can anyone shed more light on the story of Breakaway? I was aware that Brian and Reggie are credited for it but don't know how they came to work together, why they did, how it went, etc. Personally I think of Murry as a big softy, a deeply insecure man needing lots of love, who puts on a thick coat of hardness to survive in the world and to appear important. Of course I could be wrong - maybe he was the monster he's made out to be, but when I hear him criticizing the boys at the Rhonda sessions, things like that, I hear only concern in his voice. After all, he didn't say "don't sing from your hearts", did he? And Murry's 'yelling' seems to be more a thing of him having one of those loud and distinct voices and using it to rise above others. I've known some people like that, they're not that bad if you give 'em a playful poke in the belly or a tickle. 

[Nicko1234]

But, then it wouldn't have been the Love You that we all know and love, would it? I mean, that's part of Love You's charm, the adult/child aspect of Brian's personality. It was an honest picture of Brian Wilson at age 33 in 1976-77. For me, and many other BB/BW fans, that will always be welcomed. I miss that actually, but that's for another thread.

We don`t all love it by a long way though. There are plenty who dislike it, plenty (like me) who like some songs and hate others and plenty who couldn`t care less. I agree that it paints an honest picture of Brian at that time as a mentally ill man who wants to regress into childhood to escape the adult world. But to hear some of the other band members sing on those songs sounds slightly demeaning to them if that makes sense.

Basically I think that after the other band members had proved themselves on Sunflower, Surf`s Up and Holland, no album should have been produced solely by Brian again and no album should have been solely written by him. All of the albums from 15 BO through to KTSA had potential if the band members could have pulled together (which they did to an extent on LA) but I think this period led to them losing confidence and interest.

[mtaber]

The album was "all Brian" because the thinking goes that Brian is the goose who laid the golden egg.  This thinking has tormented Brian and the band for most of their history.  Brian must contribute to the album, whether he wants to or not, whether he's well or not, whether he has good material or not.

[juggler]

And Brian doesn't deny his dad's musical influence. It's not odd to me at all that together they churned out a good song. I find it touching, actually. Can anyone shed more light on the story of Breakaway? I was aware that Brian and Reggie are credited for it but don't know how they came to work together, why they did, how it went, etc.

I can't shed any light on any of that, but it's a hell of a song.  And it's probably one Brian's most autobiographical songs ever ("I heard voices in my head", "the more I thought of it, I had been out of it", "found out it was in my head", etc.).   In retrospect, it's kind of sad that Brian seemed so hopeful that he had recognized and overcome his problems and was on his way to better things.  In fact, as we know, things would go from bad to worse as he entered the '70s and '80s.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I can't shed any light on any of that, but it's a hell of a song.  And it's probably one Brian's most autobiographical songs ever ("I heard voices in my head", "the more I thought of it, I had been out of it", "found out it was in my head", etc.).   

Small problem - Murry wrote those lyrics. 

[juggler]

I can't shed any light on any of that, but it's a hell of a song.  And it's probably one Brian's most autobiographical songs ever ("I heard voices in my head", "the more I thought of it, I had been out of it", "found out it was in my head", etc.).   

Small problem - Murry wrote those lyrics. 

Not a problem at all.  Autobiographical lyrics from Brian Wilson don't have to be his own words.  The lyrics clearly reflect some knowledge that Murry had regarding Brian's mental state at the time.