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Author Topic: Lei'd In Hawaii Questions  (Read 14703 times)
Rocker
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« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2009, 10:50:35 AM »

Some of the footage has been edited elsewhere with better results, hasn't it? 

Might be, but if so I have yet to see it. I only know about the stuff from "An american band" whose clips are used often in other docus as well. Now that I think of it, I believe Endless harmony was the only documentary (that I know) that actually put the Hawaiian live version of GOK onto the movie. An American Band and Sights&Sounds of summer use the Live in London-version on a very low speed
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« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2009, 11:49:42 AM »

If I remember correctly, in the synced up GOK footage from the concert, we see a tv monitor and board. Something was arranged for THAT to be there. Was it videotaped for possible future use or broadcast locally in Hawaii perhaps? Who was contracted to be there with that equipment and where's that footage?

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« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2009, 11:54:23 AM »

Ok, so if this is correct and Brian suggested to take LSD for the show, I am not wondering why Bruce didnīt want to come along with them Smiley
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« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2009, 12:38:54 PM »

Bruce wanted the innocence. Smiley

And the money.
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« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2009, 08:38:47 AM »

To answer some of these questions:

* Wally Heider's people sent over an 8-track to record the shows, and I think probably the board and TV monitor seen in the clip were there's (the monitor could've been used by them for a closed-circuit camera view of the stage, which could've been and probably was done without the use of actual film).
* Brian played bass on the "Lei'd" version of "Sloop", as well as the otherwise unheard instrumental "Hawthorne Blvd."  Alan and Carl rotated bass duties for the rest of the songs.  I haven't been able to sort it all out yet, but I think Carl played bass on "GOK" and "GV", while Al played bass on "Gettin' Hungry", and probably "Surfin'" and "Hawaii", as he did on the studio recordings of those songs.
* Bruce is not on the "Smiley Smile" album, except for "H&V", "GV", and part of "Vegetables" (I think just the end part).  Notice on the "Smiley" "Vegetables" that Dennis sings the part that Bruce sings on the "SMiLE" version.  Bruce has said that he showed up for the sessions at Brian's, but left when Brian made them get in the shower and the swimming pool to do vocals.
* I agree that a BBs performance along the lines of the Hawaii shows would've gone over fine at Monterey, provided they "hipped" up their wardrobe a little.  After all, didn't their fellow California sunshine harmony purveyors the Mamas and the Papas play there and go over well?
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« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2009, 10:29:46 AM »

* I agree that a BBs performance along the lines of the Hawaii shows would've gone over fine at Monterey, provided they "hipped" up their wardrobe a little.  After all, didn't their fellow California sunshine harmony purveyors the Mamas and the Papas play there and go over well?

Ummm... have you heard the raw tapes of their performance at Monterey ?  Shocked
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« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2009, 11:01:02 AM »

Bruce and Al are kind of lame for opting out of shows and recording sessions and such just because the other guys were using drugs.

I mean, not using drugs does not make you lame in any sense. You can be a cool motherfucker and stay sober your whole life. But Bruce and Al do seem to be the lamest of the Beach Boys... Mike even seems like a badass, psychedelic guy in comparison.

We have to allow the possibility that they simply didn't like the effect of those drugs personally. I doubt it was as much a legal and social issue as that - that something about the effects made Bruce & Al uneasy so they didn't take them.

They may have also been noticing some "trends" happening within the group. Drug users who use their drug regularly (like the Beach Boys smoked weed and took whippets, i.e., nitrous oxide hits) begin to feel like something is missing without it. I have friends who can't do anything without getting high first, it's ridiculous. The drug is their means to letting their guard down and relaxing. Without it, they feel like they're stuck in first gear. This is a horrible cycle that they are largely unaware of, and each continued use of the drug simply adds to the problem. Being around such people, when you are not one yourself, can become incredibly sad. People rarely look healthy on drugs.

I once took a break from using any and all kinds of intoxicants for months and stayed absolutely sober. A few times during that period some old friends swung by, and they had been maintaining their stoned lifestyles. The differences between us were both apparent and embarrassing. I felt embarrassed to look so healthy & happy without drugs while they looked physically ill (sunken, darkened skin, no life to their faces or movements) and were CLEARLY mentally ill (in the sense of being terminally unhappy and relying on a drug to give them a semblance of forgetfulness in the form of Beavis & Butthead like giggles and idiotic conversation, but ultimately coming down into a very dullened state).

So in many ways I support Al and Bruce, and perhaps Mike, much more than Brian, Carl and Dennis. After all, what happened to Dennis? And didn't Carl smoke cigarettes his whole life? Cigarettes are a dirty habit (the smell is unpleasant to all non-addicted smokers, lingers in hands and clothes and rooms, stains teeth, etc) which dull the sense of taste and smell and bind one in a horrible cycle of being entirely dependent on something outside them to keep their spirits up. It's a sad sight to see a cigarette addict not have a chance to have a cigarette. You'd think it was heroin and not tobacco they were smoking. And we know about Brian's drug problems.

Drugs are clearly not the answer or the key. They bind and imprison. Maybe Bruce knew this and was not as concerned with his career (singing on the new album) as with his own health and the health of his friends (who were clearly uninterested) and chose to distance himself from what he saw (rightly) as a slowly sinking ship.
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« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2009, 02:12:51 PM »

Al, Bruce and Mike were the sensible ones in that sense and I wouldn`t use the word lame about any of them. Brian, Carl and Dennis messed themselves up and, if anything, the other guys should have been even more vocal against drugs.
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« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2009, 02:53:45 PM »

Al, Bruce and Mike were the sensible ones in that sense and I wouldn`t use the word lame about any of them. Brian, Carl and Dennis messed themselves up and, if anything, the other guys should have been even more vocal against drugs.

Good point.

Sometimes I wonder about Mike. I don't know too much about Maharishi's revised TM meditation program but I know that once a person finds their key to go within, the doors are forever opened. Mike is very devoted to TM and has been so it would seem that something about it works for him. I think he'd be more inclined to talk about his actual spiritual life in a personal and meaningful way (not just the usual pro-TM advertisements) to a fellow TMer. Meditation is a profoundly deep phenomenon.

However Mike has taken LSD and smoked his fair share, that is beyond doubt to me. I think he can be heard at the Our Prayer sessions talking about acid.
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« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2009, 03:04:27 PM »

Yeah, but I think Mike stopped with Alcolhol and Drugs after he started with TM. And Alan plus Bruce always used to be clean. But If I am not mistaken, nearly everyone back in the 60th took drugs and LSD was legal then. So it seems like they didnīt know that Drugs could ruin your health... maybe in about 20-30 years cigarrets will be illegal Smiley.


Must have been weird times back in the 60th and I can really understand why Bruce was not really satisfied with the group...
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« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2009, 03:13:35 PM »

Yeah, but I think Mike stopped with Alcolhol and Drugs after he started with TM. And Alan plus Bruce always used to be clean. But If I am not mistaken, nearly everyone back in the 60th took drugs and LSD was legal then. So it seems like they didnīt know that Drugs could ruin your health... maybe in about 20-30 years cigarrets will be illegal Smiley.


Must have been weird times back in the 60th and I can really understand why Bruce was not really satisfied with the group...

Not everyone was taking drugs but the spirit of the times was considerably different to these days. There was also the dark underbelly of the whole thing. Consider that something like the whole Manson Family stuff basically operated on drugs. Tex Watkins had only just come down from a monstrously psychologically damaging belladonna trip before heading out that night. That sort of thing. Drugs are hardly all sunshine and smiles.

The biggest thing I dislike about that culture is the drug culture's philosophical system which thinks that drugs offer the traditional mystical experiences of meditators. This is mostly untrue, and the drug experiences have much more in common with the shamanic states that, guess what, were also mostly achieved through drugs by those types. The experience of meditation and the states of consciousness one knows through it are entirely different to drug experiences. It is a fatal error to make the two appear as one and the same.

I also don't like much of the music produced by the people taking the most drugs. From the perspective of having known both chemically altered states and the states of meditation, the music produced by people of the former group is often frantic, confused, and toeing the line of falling apart entirely on many levels. The music one inclines to post-meditation is ennobling sounds which instill a sense of sacredness and stillness, not freak outs and frantic sounds at all.

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« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2009, 08:29:00 PM »



*
* Brian played bass on the "Lei'd" version of "Sloop", as well as the otherwise unheard instrumental "Hawthorne Blvd." 
I've heard it. It's really not all that interesting.
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« Reply #37 on: September 23, 2009, 08:35:42 PM »

Quote from: nobody
And didn't Carl smoke cigarettes his whole life?

No, just for most of it. Carl quit smoking around 1984 (or slightly earlier).


Edit: After doing the math, it's more like half of his all-too-brief life. I still miss that guy -- he was the greatest.





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« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2009, 08:38:04 PM »

I wonder if Carl was ever seen smoking onstage like his brothers?
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« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2009, 08:55:32 PM »

Why does seemingly every thread on this forum turn into a drug discussion?
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« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2009, 09:20:49 PM »



*
* Brian played bass on the "Lei'd" version of "Sloop", as well as the otherwise unheard instrumental "Hawthorne Blvd." 
I've heard it. It's really not all that interesting.

It's not a major piece of music but I thought it was kind of fun as an intro.
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« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2009, 11:17:10 PM »

Why does seemingly every thread on this forum turn into a drug discussion?
Seemingly everything about the Beach Boys is somehow related to drugs, that's why.
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« Reply #42 on: September 24, 2009, 02:37:56 AM »

Why does seemingly every thread on this forum turn into a drug discussion?
Seemingly everything about the Beach Boys is somehow related to drugs, that's why.

lolwut
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« Reply #43 on: September 24, 2009, 09:55:34 AM »

I wonder if the original 8-track tapes from the performances still exist, or if they're only in a mixdown form. Can anyone comment?
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« Reply #44 on: September 25, 2009, 05:21:51 PM »

Why does seemingly every thread on this forum turn into a drug discussion?
Seemingly everything about the Beach Boys is somehow related to drugs, that's why.

lolwut

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« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2009, 05:50:11 AM »

What I find most interesting about the two concerts is that Brian is the one doing most of the intros and talking and is up front singing quite a bit-it's interesting that in 1967 he was able to really get into playing live (even if only for two days) but that by 1977 he was almost comatose slumped over the piano chain smoking and hardly singing a note-certainly not acting as leader.  It once again illustrates that the real trauma to Brian was not 1967 but instead 1973-76 and 1978-82. 
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« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2009, 08:00:04 AM »

Agreed Ian on your statement..And it was not just the drugs that did it..It was the infighting + loss of confidence in Brian while still in his musical prime.
The other BB overreacted to Brian"s experimintation + change of direction.Look just at the beatles hits in 66-67..The other BB KNEW music was evolving + growing + they overeacted..I dont think BW was ever the same or cared as much afterward..I know i sound like Leaf"s book but it makes sense to me cause he was still stuck with his family..The 20 000 question is..Why couldnt BB .BW solo.. + side production jobs for Brian all coexisit in same plane..It was the 60"s.. No boundries..Brave new world vibe..What happened there is the question for me..
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« Reply #47 on: October 02, 2009, 08:56:29 AM »

I know i sound like Leaf"s book
Indeed  Grin
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« Reply #48 on: October 02, 2009, 10:06:36 AM »

I was listening again to the '67 Hawaii show that was recorded better, and I can't help but feel that the material on there would have been good enough to release at least as a short LP, if not the whole show.

Were the performances flawless? No, but neither was the earlier In Concert album, and that record did surprisingly well. In late 1967, I doubt it would have done much to damage their reputation.

I would love to see the surviving tapes remixed for release. Include the rehearals and the Wally Heider sessions, and you've got a nice CD. Throw in some essays with interviews from the surviving Beach Boys about the concerts, nice cover art and packaging.

I think what makes it so interesting for me, is that it's just the Beach Boys at their most basic; no backing musicians, no session players, no studio tricks.
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« Reply #49 on: October 02, 2009, 01:43:33 PM »

What I find most interesting about the two concerts is that Brian is the one doing most of the intros and talking and is up front singing quite a bit-it's interesting that in 1967 he was able to really get into playing live (even if only for two days) but that by 1977 he was almost comatose slumped over the piano chain smoking and hardly singing a note-certainly not acting as leader.  It once again illustrates that the real trauma to Brian was not 1967 but instead 1973-76 and 1978-82.  

The guy is mentally ill, and anyone in that position has good days and bad days. For him to be in good spirits for two days isn't some astonishing revelation - I'd say the failure of Smile was a pretty devastating blow to his creativity and well being in 1967. Let's not forget the guy had a nervous breakdown on a plane a few years earlier and wasn't touring with the band because of his mental health, which he wasn't even fully aware of at the time.

It's not a matter of "trauma" - such incidents made him worse, yes, but being in good and bad condition is never a consistent thing when you're like Brian.

Edit: Wait - am I mistaken, or are you incorrect, anyway? I don't hear Brian introducing any songs, and I don't think it's anything special that he's singing his parts on the songs. He doesn't even sing "Wouldn't It Be Nice".
« Last Edit: October 02, 2009, 01:51:19 PM by runnersdialzero » Logged

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