Cyclical nature of both critical acclaim and popularity

[the captain]

I'd like to read what people have to say about the way bands and musicians come and go...not just in terms of record sales, but influence of modern artists, critical acclaim, etc.

The Beatles seem to be just about the only untouchable--the closest they get to falling out of favor is when the debate rages over Pepper/White Album/Rubber Soul/Revolver.  Dylan may be there, too. Otherwise...Zeppelin, Beach Boys, Hendrix, Doors, Queen, Simon & Garfunkel, VU, etc...everything comes and goes.

Why can the Beatles always be universally acknowledged as great, but no one else? Anyone have a particularly maddening example of someone who has fallen out of favor, or an overdue return to good graces of public and critical acclaim? I find the topic fascinating...maybe someone else does, too.

[Maybelline]

Anyone have a particularly maddening example of someone who has fallen out of favor, or an overdue return to good graces of public and critical acclaim? I find the topic fascinating...maybe someone else does, too.

Fleetwo... oh.er...nevermind..

[I. Spaceman]

The Monkees.

[Jason Penick]

I would say that the Kinks are finally getting their due.  The Beach Boys have certainly come a long way as well.  Even the Monkees are now receiving well-deserved props in certain, ahem, hipster circles.


I don't think Hendrix has ever actually fallen out of favor.  I mean, the guy pretty much carved the template.

[jdavolt]

I see the Beatles being no more immune to the vicissitudes of popularity, or hipness, really, than any of the other acts you named. But really I've not been around long enough to properly observe the phenomenon...

[the captain]

I don't think Hendrix has ever actually fallen out of favor.  I mean, the guy pretty much carved the template.

He did, but I disagree about him falling out of favor. For example, the guitar solo as a whole has largely fallen out of favor the past 10-15 years, and who more embodies that idea than Hendrix? (Okay, maybe Eddie Van Halen. But who else?)

A telling look at who is in favor with critics and younger musicians is always press kits that bands send out. How many name drop Hendrix these days? Precious few. It will come back, of course, but he comes and goes.

[I. Spaceman]

Jack White brought it back.

[SurferGirl7]

Why can the Beatles always be universally acknowledged as great, but no one else? Anyone have a particularly maddening example of someone who has fallen out of favor, or an overdue return to good graces of public and critical acclaim?

I think because of The Beatles they had and probably the people around them, really plugging on the legend and mystery around the band. Try to remember the time in 1964 when they came. That was ALL you heard about. Everyone for a second looked like it melted. Probably The Beatles and The BB being on same label probably didn't help matters either.
As an example of someone really out of favor? I could put Michael Jackson. I've met a few people that really, really liked him and did become an icon in pop culture. He's just a guy who started believing what the people around him said. He lost all sense of reality and now look how he is? He's a joke now. He may have won that trial but it scarred his career enough.

[Chris D.]

I don't think Hendrix has ever actually fallen out of favor.  I mean, the guy pretty much carved the template.

That kind of captures it.  As long as people think you got there first and you were popular at the time, I think you're probably solid with the public.  That's kind of how the Beatles work.  They took rock and roll into "rock" for most people, and obviously were huge.  That doesn't mean they always did it best, or were always first, but I think for most people they're close enough.

[I. Spaceman]

I don't think Hendrix has ever actually fallen out of favor.  I mean, the guy pretty much carved the template.

That kind of captures it.  As long as people think you got there first and you were popular at the time, I think you're probably solid with the public.  That's kind of how the Beatles work.  They took rock and roll into "rock" for most people, and obviously were huge.  That doesn't mean they always did it best, or were always first, but I think for most people they're close enough.

Perfect. Same with Elvis.

[Bean Bag]

They took rock and roll into "rock" for most people

Nice.  That's why you the geny-ius!

[Chris D.]

They took rock and roll into "rock" for most people

Nice.  That's why you the geny-ius!

Yo Rodnay

[Daniel S.]

Who knows what people really think. We just read what rock journalists write and most of them are full of crap. A lot of it is just a spin machine doing revisionist history. Who really knows what the truth is. The Beatles definitely have always had the best publicists on their side. They're almost all dead and 2 years ago you still had every magazine putting them on the cover to mark the 40th anniversary of their first visit to America. Kind of a joke. Part of the reason is that there's nothing new happening, a lot of crap "bands," so nothing to write about. The fact is that most kids today do not listen to the Beatles. One hundred years from now everything will be sorted out. I doubt the Beatles publicity machine will still be around telling everybody they're the best. foda Rolling Stone. foda Jan Wenner.

[the captain]

Part of the reason is that there's nothing new happening, a lot of crap "bands," so nothing to write about.

I disagree. There's plenty new, but most people who say that just don't like it. Along the same basic argument, you need to decide how new you need to be to call something new. It isn't like the Beatles in vented instruments or new harmonic theory, either... I don't mean this derogatorily, but it is just pop.

The fact is that most kids today do not listen to the Beatles.

I've never met a pop music fan or musician who wasn't at least somewhat schooled in them. I'd watch what you're calling facts.

[donald]

The Beatles haven't fallen out of favor but opinions on their best album varies over the years.

Sgt. Pepper has lost some of its shine in recent months, it seems, based on what I've read.  People seem to be more interested now in what came before such as Rubber Soul or Revolver.

The Eagles, who once soared,  have fallen to the ground.  And Jackson Browne is flying close to the ground.

Dylan checked out and then checked back in.

The massive interest in the Doors of a few years ago has waned.

Pet sounds rose to a place of prominence and seems to have remained there.

A bunch of those early 90's grunge bands have disappeared from the radar.

Neil Young just  keeps going and going and going and going.........

Van Morrison had a large comeback several years ago but the intense interes has leveled out and subsided somewhat......
 

[Mitchell]

Well, how about Nirvana? They're still "cool" and haven't really fallen out of favour too much.

[Jason]

Well, how about Nirvana? They're still "cool" and haven't really fallen out of favour too much.

There's a Led Zeppelin-esque contingent out there that considers everything the band ever did to be overrated. I'm not one of them, I like some of their material.

[Mitchell]

Yeah, but there are people like that for every band.

[Jason]

Even The Beatles?

[I. Spaceman]

Absolutely.
Some of them are on this board.

[Jason]

Ian, could you please check your PMs?

[al]

I'd like to read what people have to say about the way bands and musicians come and go...not just in terms of record sales, but influence of modern artists, critical acclaim, etc.

The Beatles seem to be just about the only untouchable--the closest they get to falling out of favor is when the debate rages over Pepper/White Album/Rubber Soul/Revolver.  Dylan may be there, too. Otherwise...Zeppelin, Beach Boys, Hendrix, Doors, Queen, Simon & Garfunkel, VU, etc...everything comes and goes.

Why can the Beatles always be universally acknowledged as great, but no one else? Anyone have a particularly maddening example of someone who has fallen out of favor, or an overdue return to good graces of public and critical acclaim? I find the topic fascinating...maybe someone else does, too.

Very good post Luther. Having read the music press since 1972 I've seen most things come and go. It often depends on their latest/last release. For some bands who are long gone it can be a cover version by someone 'in' that sparks off interest, or a decent reissue or a song in a film.

For a long time The Beach Boys were the least cool band on the planet. I felt like I had to wear a blanket over my head on the way to see them in 1980 and the audience were similarly uncool.
They made LP's throughout the 70's and early 80's  that got increasingly bad press and then stopped making new music altogether.

That never stopped the compilations selling but don't forget their albums were out of print or not issued on CD for a LONG time.

Why did The Beatles star never fade? (It did, briefly in the UK during punk, but not so as the outside world would notice).

Because they were about far more than just music. The Beatles, if you grew up during the time, were the leaders of the free world for a few brief years. As a consequence of the changes they kicked off/fell into, my world changed from Black and white to colour almost overnight. It's no coincidence that Hard Days Night is in Black and White and HELP is colour. Between those two films we all suddenly blossomed into full colour a la Pleasantville, as the 40's were finally done with and Britain finally moved forward instead of back.

The Beatles grew in front of the world and didn't put a foot wrong. They were rebellious but also cute. They rocked AND did ballads. THey wrote songs that meant something to US, and to everyone.

To criticise them now is almost to go against all prevailing wisdom - but the odd fact is that no matter how hard you try, criticising The Beatles is damn hard work (and I just did try on the SS by daring to say that Lennon was cruising by Abbey Road and that most of side one is comparatively poor - and people came straight back at me  - even defending Octopus' Garden!!!!).

Nirvana will remain highly thought of as they appealed to far fewer and had the good grace to disintigrate before the music started to - still a minority appeal though.

As for the rest, they come and go. Nick Drake couldn't get arrested in his short life, now he is almost godlike. Richard Thompson is critically loved but record companies hate him as he never sells any more records than he did last time no matter how good the record is.