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Author Topic: Jan & Dean  (Read 27145 times)
kookadams
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« Reply #100 on: May 06, 2015, 11:42:00 AM »

J&D made two great albums with Drag City
and Ride the Wild Surf, everything else was just singles-Surf city, deadmans curve, little old lady etc. The greatest rock duo of all time in my opinion.
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joshferrell
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« Reply #101 on: May 06, 2015, 11:47:38 AM »

I gotta say as far as Jan & Dean go, I don't understand why they didn't do great material like "You Really Know How to Hurt a Guy" and "I Found a Girl" live after they reunited in the '70s. Was this stuff too hard for Jan to sing? I don't think so.

Seems like they just settled for being a half-assed Beach Boys rip-off group, doing stuff like "California Girls" (and in later years "Kokomo") even though they had nothing to do with Jan & Dean. I definitely don't think their live shows after a certain point did anything but kinda ruin their brand. Which is a shame because they did have a nice handful of really good material.
there's a version of Jan singing "I found a girl" on a boot and it sounds like he's having a hard time with it, also didn't Dean say he didn't like "You really know how to hurt a guy."? also one must remember that there's a huge difference in the mix of their vocals in the mono mixes compared to those stereo mixes, it sounds to me that the vocals are way too loud in the stereo mixes, sometimes to the point of where it hurts my ears, I'm glad to finally hear the mono mixes n the Liberty singles cd as well as buying original vinyl..
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Steve Latshaw
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« Reply #102 on: May 06, 2015, 12:45:28 PM »

<< also didn't Dean say he didn't like "You really know how to hurt a guy."? >>
No, he did not like the song.  But the one he walked out of the studio on to go sing on Barbara Ann with the Beach Boys was "A Beginning from An End."  At the same time Jan was cutting YRKHTHAG, Dean was cutting a solo version of the Jamies hit Summertime, which remained unreleased until 1966, post accident.  That shows the different direction they were going.  Liberty was pushing Jan to record more "serious" songs.

<<also one must remember that there's a huge difference in the mix of their vocals in the mono mixes compared to those stereo mixes, it sounds to me that the vocals are way too loud in the stereo mixes, sometimes to the point of where it hurts my ears, I'm glad to finally hear the mono mixes n the Liberty singles cd as well as buying original vinyl.>>

I'm very fond of Jan's stereo mixes, with the exception of the FOLK 'n ROLL album, which is more binaural than anything else... most of the instruments on one channel, most of the vocals on the other.  New Girl in School is the same way.
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« Reply #103 on: May 06, 2015, 01:02:25 PM »

Because Dean didn't want to do them, for a variety of reasons. After the accident, Dean was in charge of the live portion of "Jan and Dean" and controlled the set lists. Jan, because of his brain damage, had memory issues, including remembering the words to his own songs (there are stories about how he had to listen to the songs they were going to sing that night, songs he had written and produced, in order to relearn the words.) So, part of the set list choices was to help Jan. The other reason, I believe, is that Dean didn't really care. Like his good friend Mike Love, Dean is very focused on the commercial aspects of music--he is no artist with a capital A. His Jan and Dean live show--like Mike's BB's--was about giving the audience a good time, not about performing deep cuts. He'd rather do Beach Boys songs that everyone knows than an obscure J&D song that only the hardcore fans will appreciate.
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phirnis
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« Reply #104 on: May 06, 2015, 01:24:25 PM »

<< also didn't Dean say he didn't like "You really know how to hurt a guy."? >>
No, he did not like the song.  But the one he walked out of the studio on to go sing on Barbara Ann with the Beach Boys was "A Beginning from An End."  At the same time Jan was cutting YRKHTHAG, Dean was cutting a solo version of the Jamies hit Summertime, which remained unreleased until 1966, post accident.  That shows the different direction they were going.  Liberty was pushing Jan to record more "serious" songs.

I absolutely love Dean's rendition of Summertime! In a way it sounds almost melancholy, or is that just me?
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bonnevillemariner
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« Reply #105 on: May 06, 2015, 01:37:32 PM »

But to say Jan & Dean RECORDS had a poor vocal blends or suggest that Jan & Dean "didn't seem to care about the vocal quality of their records"  is inaccurate.

I appreciate your response, Steve. It does shine some light.  I'm probably making premature judgments, and that's not really fair.  Aside from the hits I've loved since I was a kid, so far I've only really experienced the Drag City and Ride the Wild Surf albums, along with a few other tracks here and there and some re-records (again, I ask- why???).  While it may be inaccurate to suggest that J&D had poor vocal blends, I am suggesting just that.  At least on the material I've been able to digest.  Honestly, I don't think either of them would have made first cuts at my high school's glee club tryout.  I mentioned above that I like their vocals for nostalgic reasons, but when it comes to things like vocal muscle control, pitch and inflection, they just don't sound good. Almost like they didn't ever rehearse.

Which leads me to speculate that the vocal quality of their records is something they didn't care about-- or at least cared less about than arrangement, lyrics, subject matter, etc.  To me, that would make sense.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 01:39:46 PM by bonnevillemariner » Logged
Steve Latshaw
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« Reply #106 on: May 06, 2015, 02:25:02 PM »

<<was about giving the audience a good time, not about performing deep cuts.>>

I saw a great show at Southern Illinois University, 1986.  Jan was in great voice, Chris Farmer played trumpet on Deadman's Curve, Cowsill on drums sang Indian Lake and during Barbara Ann they did an extended medley that included Hang On Sloopy and the Batman theme.
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Bedroom Tapes
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« Reply #107 on: May 06, 2015, 02:33:06 PM »

http://endlessskyvideo.blogspot.com/2008/12/endless-sky-volume-ii.html

Has anybody seen these DVD's or can review them?  Is it worth checking out?
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relx
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« Reply #108 on: May 06, 2015, 02:42:38 PM »

<<was about giving the audience a good time, not about performing deep cuts.>>

I saw a great show at Southern Illinois University, 1986.  Jan was in great voice, Chris Farmer played trumpet on Deadman's Curve, Cowsill on drums sang Indian Lake and during Barbara Ann they did an extended medley that included Hang On Sloopy and the Batman theme.

I think the set list got worse as the 80's wore on.  Their best sets where in the late 70s, when they first started touring again. A lot of BB's yes, but you would get a lot more J&D material: Jennie Lee, Baby Talk, Linda, Surf City, Drag City, New Girl in School, Ride the Wild Surf, Sidewalk Surfin, Little Old Lady from Pasadena, Popsicle on occasion, and Jan singing You've Got to Hide Your Love Away, which they had done in the 60s.
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« Reply #109 on: May 06, 2015, 02:43:41 PM »

http://endlessskyvideo.blogspot.com/2008/12/endless-sky-volume-ii.html

Has anybody seen these DVD's or can review them?  Is it worth checking out?

I highly recommend the Dean Torrence edition. In fact, the entire series of Open/Endless Sky is worth getting.
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Steve Latshaw
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« Reply #110 on: May 06, 2015, 02:56:53 PM »

On the Endless Sky DVDs Dean is a great (and funny) storyteller, with just the right edge of sarcasm.  Dave Beard knows the right questions to ask and Dean is relaxed enough with him to tell some stories no one has ever heard.  The Ice Cream man story is worth the price of admission.  Dean also does a dead-on Mike Love impersonation though I don't recall if he does it here.
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smilethebeachboysloveyou
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« Reply #111 on: May 06, 2015, 03:54:21 PM »

<< also didn't Dean say he didn't like "You really know how to hurt a guy."? >>
No, he did not like the song.  But the one he walked out of the studio on to go sing on Barbara Ann with the Beach Boys was "A Beginning from An End."  At the same time Jan was cutting YRKHTHAG, Dean was cutting a solo version of the Jamies hit Summertime, which remained unreleased until 1966, post accident.  That shows the different direction they were going.  Liberty was pushing Jan to record more "serious" songs.

Is "A Beginning from an End" meant to be a serious song?  Admittedly it's not funny in the slightest, but the way the spoken interlude goes on and on and takes up nearly half of the song's running time I've always wondered if it wasn't meant as a parody of the teen tragedy song in some way.  I have to admit that the intentionality behind that song totally escapes me--frankly, I can't blame Dean for walking out.
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Steve Latshaw
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« Reply #112 on: May 06, 2015, 04:29:30 PM »

<<Is "A Beginning from an End" meant to be a serious song?  Admittedly it's not funny in the slightest, but the way the spoken interlude goes on and on and takes up nearly half of the song's running time I've always wondered if it wasn't meant as a parody of the teen tragedy song in some way.  I have to admit that the intentionality behind that song totally escapes me--frankly, I can't blame Dean for walking out.>>

I've been listening to this track for about 38 years and try as I might, I don't think it has a shred of parody in it.  This is Jan being serious.
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bgas
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« Reply #113 on: May 06, 2015, 05:12:24 PM »

<<Is "A Beginning from an End" meant to be a serious song?  Admittedly it's not funny in the slightest, but the way the spoken interlude goes on and on and takes up nearly half of the song's running time I've always wondered if it wasn't meant as a parody of the teen tragedy song in some way.  I have to admit that the intentionality behind that song totally escapes me--frankly, I can't blame Dean for walking out.>>

I've been listening to this track for about 38 years and try as I might, I don't think it has a shred of parody in it.  This is Jan being serious.

what am I missing here? seems the song is about a mom that died at childbirth, baby surviving. Why would that be thought of as a parody?
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« Reply #114 on: May 06, 2015, 11:36:39 PM »

<<Is "A Beginning from an End" meant to be a serious song?  Admittedly it's not funny in the slightest, but the way the spoken interlude goes on and on and takes up nearly half of the song's running time I've always wondered if it wasn't meant as a parody of the teen tragedy song in some way.  I have to admit that the intentionality behind that song totally escapes me--frankly, I can't blame Dean for walking out.>>

I've been listening to this track for about 38 years and try as I might, I don't think it has a shred of parody in it.  This is Jan being serious.

what am I missing here? seems the song is about a mom that died at childbirth, baby surviving. Why would that be thought of as a parody?

I wasn't referring to the subject matter so much as the structure of the song.  The fact that the spoken interlude is so overlong and melodramatic (I know that the subject matter is also dramatic, but generally the idea is to get the emotion into the music) made me think Jan was half-parodying spoken interludes.  I don't really think the track works either way, though.
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« Reply #115 on: May 07, 2015, 08:29:51 AM »

It's obviously meant to be a pop music spin on a mother dying in childbirth; a serious take on a serious subject and quite sincere.  Jan was no doubt inspired by stories he'd heard in med school.  The problem with the song - like Only A Boy - is that the lyrics are too "on the nose" - too obvious. 
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« Reply #116 on: May 07, 2015, 08:34:01 AM »

I highly doubt that I'm the first one to point this out, but has anyone noticed that Surf City and Little Old Lady from Pasadena are essentially the same song?

I know this was pretty common at the same (ie. No Particular Place to Go / School Days).  Even Brian and the Boys had a lot of similar songs. 

Also, does anyone know why The Beach Boys covered Little Old Lady in concert in the old days, and not Surf City?  Maybe because Murry was still bitter about Brian giving away a #1 hit? 
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kookadams
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« Reply #117 on: May 07, 2015, 10:06:04 AM »

But to say Jan & Dean RECORDS had a poor vocal blends or suggest that Jan & Dean "didn't seem to care about the vocal quality of their records"  is inaccurate.

I appreciate your response, Steve. It does shine some light.  I'm probably making premature judgments, and that's not really fair.  Aside from the hits I've loved since I was a kid, so far I've only really experienced the Drag City and Ride the Wild Surf albums, along with a few other tracks here and there and some re-records (again, I ask- why???).  While it may be inaccurate to suggest that J&D had poor vocal blends, I am suggesting just that.  At least on the material I've been able to digest.  Honestly, I don't think either of them would have made first cuts at my high school's glee club tryout.  I mentioned above that I like their vocals for nostalgic reasons, but when it comes to things like vocal muscle control, pitch and inflection, they just don't sound good. Almost like they didn't ever rehearse.

Which leads me to speculate that the vocal quality of their records is something they didn't care about-- or at least cared less about than arrangement, lyrics, subject matter, etc.  To me, that would make sense.
drag city & ride the wild surf were the two solid albums, lil old lady has a few orig cuts..
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« Reply #118 on: May 07, 2015, 10:11:34 AM »

But to say Jan & Dean RECORDS had a poor vocal blends or suggest that Jan & Dean "didn't seem to care about the vocal quality of their records"  is inaccurate.

I appreciate your response, Steve. It does shine some light.  I'm probably making premature judgments, and that's not really fair.  Aside from the hits I've loved since I was a kid, so far I've only really experienced the Drag City and Ride the Wild Surf albums, along with a few other tracks here and there and some re-records (again, I ask- why???).  While it may be inaccurate to suggest that J&D had poor vocal blends, I am suggesting just that.  At least on the material I've been able to digest.  Honestly, I don't think either of them would have made first cuts at my high school's glee club tryout.  I mentioned above that I like their vocals for nostalgic reasons, but when it comes to things like vocal muscle control, pitch and inflection, they just don't sound good. Almost like they didn't ever rehearse.

Which leads me to speculate that the vocal quality of their records is something they didn't care about-- or at least cared less about than arrangement, lyrics, subject matter, etc.  To me, that would make sense.
Even when Jan & Dean tried to be serious their vocals came off as goofy.
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« Reply #119 on: May 07, 2015, 11:16:33 AM »

<<Even when Jan & Dean tried to be serious their vocals came off as goofy.>>

Care to note some specific examples on more "serious" tracks?  Not quite sure which ones you are referring to?
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« Reply #120 on: May 07, 2015, 11:29:48 AM »

Well serious might be the wrong word I'm looking for - something Like Deadman's Curve. It's certainly trying for a darker tone than say, Batman but it still sounds kind of cartoony due to their voices.
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« Reply #121 on: May 07, 2015, 11:41:17 AM »

Deadman's Curve was meant as satire.  It was created to send up the entire "Death Rock" genre (Johnny Angel, Last Kiss, etc.).  Dean called it their "Fargo."

You Really Know How to Hurt A Guy, A Surfer's Dream, It's As Easy as 1-2-3, When It's Over, It's A Shame to Say Goodbye, etc. were all pretty serious without being goofy.

But these guys were always pretty self-deprecating about their own vocal prowess.  They make countless jokes about their own singing on that original Filet of Soul LP (side four of the Anthology album). 

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« Reply #122 on: May 07, 2015, 08:16:39 PM »

is "You really know how to hurt a guy" on an actual Album? or is it just on the best of compilations? I am collecting them on vinyl and since this is my favorite J&D song I am wanting to find it but I have only seen it (so far) on the "Golden Hits 2" album... but didn't pic it up yet because I was hoping to find a better "Best of.." or regular album with it on it...
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« Reply #123 on: May 07, 2015, 10:01:59 PM »

As far as I know, the only album it appears on is the Pop Symphony No. 1, which has the backing track. Considering the rest of the songs are remakes, this leads me to believe that this was its "proper" album release.
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« Reply #124 on: May 08, 2015, 04:55:01 AM »

is "You really know how to hurt a guy" on an actual Album? or is it just on the best of compilations? I am collecting them on vinyl and since this is my favorite J&D song I am wanting to find it but I have only seen it (so far) on the "Golden Hits 2" album... but didn't pic it up yet because I was hoping to find a better "Best of.." or regular album with it on it...


IIRC it was just a single release and didn't appear on an actual album apart from Best Ofs
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