Relationships and Law and the Press

[Shady]

wow welcome the the board Debbie, thanks for the insight.

Amazing post.

[Wilsonista]

Debbie, please stick around the board!  Any insight you would feel comfortable sharing would be greatly appreciated.

[Surfer Joe]

Second that- welcome.  Glad I changed my decision to look back at this ultra-creepy thread.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Welcome, Debbie!

My respect for Nick Kent took a direct hit when I realised he'd ripped off a lot of his Smile info in his 1975 pieces from the Vosse Fusion interview. Uncredited, too.

Of course he's going to rip off other people's writing...when he writes his own material, 99% of what he says is wrong.

[?]

Wow, best first post ever!  Thanks for sharing Debbie. 

[dk]

Thanks, for your support and kind words.  I'm glad there are a number of thoughtful people there who might question the validity of some of the things people write, even if they do get published.  I have known some very good writers around Brian, as well, obviously David Leaf being one of them.  Whether you agree with his (and others') point of view or not, he did his research and his quotes were valid.  We should value anyone doing that these days.

Debbie

I forgot to mention, in defense of Barbara and Dennis's children and her, I know she was "of age" when she married Dennis.  I worked at the Ivar offices when he met her, and he was ecstatic about her.  She is an absolutely intelligent, lovely, down-to-earth human being, and Michael is a fantastic chef!...love his mussels appetizer, etc.  Also, consider that we were all very young back then.  I think I misjudged a lot of people, and they misjudged me.  Keep in mind we're all grownups now.

Dennis probably did many of the things some of you talk about, but I've never met another human being who could make a person feel so special and loved, even with every new acquaintance.  While I wasn't one of his ladies, I completely understand why very bright women fell in love with him, and vice versa.  I have no doubt about his love for the women in his life.  He had a giant heart and a true empathy for all people.  Listen to his music...Give him that one.  If you want to have fun with his colorful side, fine...just keep in mind what a treasure he was, and is...a very special man...

[Compost]

who can blame brian and dennis? those are a girl's peak years in terms of looking classically beautiful (i.e., youthful yet desirable) unless they get bit with the teenage goofy bug.

have you see marilyn these days? just looks like any average mother in a supermarket, no offense to her

i think brian is quite a handsome guy, he at least deserves a woman or a teenage girl with a chin!

just kidding

problem with liking girls in those years is that you will get stuck with them as they expand and wrinkle

every pretty girl is just saggy tits and wrinkled skin waiting to happen anyway, and a space filler for a coffin

it's no surprise though that brian liked girls rather than women, he seems to have been a boy more than a man

dennis was a man, so it's safe to assume he was just hungry for fresh fruit.

the beach boys have always had a sort of boyish crudeness to them about some sexual jokes. "gettin hungry". brian's kitty eating comments on lei'd in hawaii, etc.

all part of the lifestyle i suppose. seems sort of stupid to me, sex isn't that great in the first place.

Please stop posting.

[Shady]

who can blame brian and dennis? those are a girl's peak years in terms of looking classically beautiful (i.e., youthful yet desirable) unless they get bit with the teenage goofy bug.

have you see marilyn these days? just looks like any average mother in a supermarket, no offense to her

i think brian is quite a handsome guy, he at least deserves a woman or a teenage girl with a chin!

just kidding

problem with liking girls in those years is that you will get stuck with them as they expand and wrinkle

every pretty girl is just saggy tits and wrinkled skin waiting to happen anyway, and a space filler for a coffin

it's no surprise though that brian liked girls rather than women, he seems to have been a boy more than a man

dennis was a man, so it's safe to assume he was just hungry for fresh fruit.

the beach boys have always had a sort of boyish crudeness to them about some sexual jokes. "gettin hungry". brian's kitty eating comments on lei'd in hawaii, etc.

all part of the lifestyle i suppose. seems sort of stupid to me, sex isn't that great in the first place.

Please stop posting.

+1

[nobody]

who can blame brian and dennis? those are a girl's peak years in terms of looking classically beautiful (i.e., youthful yet desirable) unless they get bit with the teenage goofy bug.

have you see marilyn these days? just looks like any average mother in a supermarket, no offense to her

i think brian is quite a handsome guy, he at least deserves a woman or a teenage girl with a chin!

just kidding

problem with liking girls in those years is that you will get stuck with them as they expand and wrinkle

every pretty girl is just saggy tits and wrinkled skin waiting to happen anyway, and a space filler for a coffin

it's no surprise though that brian liked girls rather than women, he seems to have been a boy more than a man

dennis was a man, so it's safe to assume he was just hungry for fresh fruit.

the beach boys have always had a sort of boyish crudeness to them about some sexual jokes. "gettin hungry". brian's kitty eating comments on lei'd in hawaii, etc.

all part of the lifestyle i suppose. seems sort of stupid to me, sex isn't that great in the first place.

Please stop posting.

will do

[Rocker]

Welcome Debbie ! Hope you'll stick around.

It's fascinating how the www makes you hear stories about your heroes from the people who actually where there. Just think about it, Ed Roach, Steve Desper and now Debbie Keil. Plus the insiders of today of course like Mark Linett and Alan Boyd, etc. Man this board is the best around for Beach Boys-fans.

[wallabie]

@dK

Hello Debbie,

ok, I started the thread, so maybe I have to apologize. You know, I read Kent´s Interview and in this Interview - which was a german translation - he wrote that Brian introduced his 16 year old girlfriend as "Diane" but soon HE realised that Brian was wrong and mentioned, that the name is Debbie. So I was just wondering... did Brian really had a 16 years old girlfriend by the time? No - now I know that he hadn´t because you were obviously 27 then.

I also found out that Bruce Johnston had a big problem with Kent because of an article he wrote back in 1975 - and he didn´t want anyone of the Beach Boys to talk with him. But it seems like it was then Manager Jerry Schilling (could be wrong in this point) who invited him. Sorry if I am wrong with this, should be no offence against anyone.

And sure, it´s non of my business with whom Brian was dating or with whom he was together and why. I just had some pieces of the puzzle so I just tried to ask some people how this was possible ... and so I am still wondering after all this years. So I´m sorry and want to say "Thank you" for speaking up.

But... sorry should not be any offence... if I am not mistaken you said that Marilyn was 15 and Brian was 19... but... I think Brian is born 1942 and Marilyn 1948... isn´t it? So you are right, it´s not such a big difference in age. I was just referring to the Kent-Article were he wrote "Brian was 37 and the girl that Brian introduced me as Diane was 16"... it was wrong.

So thank you again, I hope you´ll accept my apologie and my best wishes...
Martin

[dk]

Oops - you're right.  Marilyn was born in '48.  In any case, Brian was so young, as was she, and this wasn't an attack on you.  They were both young and were lucky/unlucky enough to be famous, and therefore, exposed.  It's just that I have also been lucky/unlucky enough to be written about, so I understand how weird and convoluted things get, and frankly, some people just lie to write the cruel article that they had planned, as it is their "signature" in the rock world, at least in one case.

I think Gaines, who also wrote a pretty dramatic book, truly did care about the indivduals in the band and did his best to fairly express a point of view, yet the constant drama was needed for a story.  It's just hard to gain perspective on something as complex as a gifted family with many problems in the time it takes (and is demanded) to write a book.  But then, if you spend too much time, there is a lack of perspective.  So, maybe it's best, in the end, to just listen to the music and hear the artist's soul.  What else matters in the end?

Debbie

[Surfer Joe]

Wow, best first post ever!  Thanks for sharing Debbie. 

Thanks, for your support and kind words.  I'm glad there are a number of thoughtful people there who might question the validity of some of the things people write, even if they do get published.  I have known some very good writers around Brian, as well, obviously David Leaf being one of them.  Whether you agree with his (and others') point of view or not, he did his research and his quotes were valid.  We should value anyone doing that these days.

Debbie

I forgot to mention, in defense of Barbara and Dennis's children and her, I know she was "of age" when she married Dennis.  I worked at the Ivar offices when he met her, and he was ecstatic about her.  She is an absolutely intelligent, lovely, down-to-earth human being, and Michael is a fantastic chef!...love his mussels appetizer, etc.  Also, consider that we were all very young back then.  I think I misjudged a lot of people, and they misjudged me.  Keep in mind we're all grownups now.

Dennis probably did many of the things some of you talk about, but I've never met another human being who could make a person feel so special and loved, even with every new acquaintance.  While I wasn't one of his ladies, I completely understand why very bright women fell in love with him, and vice versa.  I have no doubt about his love for the women in his life.  He had a giant heart and a true empathy for all people.  Listen to his music...Give him that one.  If you want to have fun with his colorful side, fine...just keep in mind what a treasure he was, and is...a very special man...

Also, best second post ever.  Didn't think this awful thread was salvageable, but it's been done.

[dk]

Thanks.  I tried to avoid message boards, as things can be misconstrued and attacked.  You folks have been wonderful.  I had a lot of time and personal experiences to sort through over my lifetime.  I truly regret being too young and inexperienced to understand Marlilyn's, and her family's, actions.  I was unkind to them in my thoughts (although I don't think anything was published), as I thought I was defending Brian, as his friend.  On the other hand, they were unkind to me, although they never knew me, and I dont' blame them, maybe they thought the same.  It was an overwhelming time.  We were all not just young, but I think no one can understand the immensity of fame, and what it demands.  It's a very tall mountain.

The truth is, many people have loved Brian and the Boys.  It was a tall task for us, and many of us failed.  Imagine what a tall task it was for them, really living it...Jeez!

So, when you talk about them, do it with the love that the music conveys.  They deserve it.  And when you talk about everyone around them, look at the love in their eyes these days (like his band, family and friends), and know that we all have treasured them and loved them wholeheartedly over the years, in our own ways.  David Leaf, certainly, Ed Roach, sure, among the people I knew well, as well as many of Brian's current friends who truly love him, whom I won't mention without permission.  If you could have seen his band, Van Dyke Parks, and his loving friends after the first performance of "Smile" in London (pretty much all in joyous tears), you couldn't miss it.  If you had seen Paul McCartney and his band crying at the "Smile" presentation a few days later, you also couldn't have missed it, along with George Martin, and many others.

With all the silly daily drama, how bad can that be?  All I have to say is, just look at the Wilsons' kids, Carnie, Wendy, Dari, Delaney, Dylan (sorry, I don't know the new baby's name), Scott, Jennifer, Carl B., Michael, Gage, Justyn and Jonah  (sorry I don't know Mike and Al's kids as well, so can't comment)...and the joy of the songs, what other legacy do you need?...Clearly, there ws a lot of love.

Debbie

[wallabie]

Hey Debbie

your posting is really, really good and sweet. Do you mind if I quotate the last two paragraphs in an other board - because it´s so nice

I am always sooo sad because there are so many wrong stories about the Beach Boys and lies, trying to make a tragedy out of their career - because tragedies sell better . His music is still so powerful and sweet today ..... but as I said, sometimes you want to know a bit more about the person and why do Journalists write things and if they are really true - or why one thing happened and the other not ....

Thank you again for commin around... So.. Brian wrote "The night was so young" about you? Wow . It is one of my favorite songs.

[Shady]

You were Brian's muse for 'The Night Was So Young' , holy hell, one of my favourite BB songs ever. Carl is so wonderful on that track.

Very interesting posts so far Debbie, thanks for taking the time. 

[dk]

Sure, you can use the quote.  It's not copyrighted.

Well, Brian told me a long time ago that "The Night Was So Young" was written for me, and he appeared really serious (meaning uncomfortable with saying it, while I had never asked).  I'm not making light of him, but if you know Brian, you have to develop a sense of what's real and what's "for the moment," said either to relieve himself of unwanted stuff from you or others, or he might have said it for the fun of it, if you appear too serious, or if he's just not in the mood.  He really is remarkably bright and perceptive (in case that wasn't clear from the music).   He has creative ways of dealing with all of that, just like his music.  His friends who truly love him get that about him, but it's still a challenge sometimes.  You might want to read his interviews that way.  Sometimes, he's just not in the mood.  Other times, it all clicks.  It doesn't have to be a drama.  It's just him.

Debbie

 

[Nicole]

Wow Debbie, thanks for all the insight. So nice to have you here!

[Jonas]

It's one thing to be interested in a 16 year old girl when you're 18, another when you're 25.   Rock star or not, it's wrong to mess around with underage girls, morally and legally.  

Isn't it the legality that makes everyone think its "morally" wrong?

[the captain]

I would say it is more that the morality of it caused it to become legally wrong.

[Jonas]

Last time I ever listen to Jerry Lee...

[Wilsonista]

If I used that as my criteria for what musicians I listen to, my music collection would look pretty empty.

[the captain]

I agree. But it is interesting how some people's musical enjoyment is very much based on the non-music related behavior of the musicians. I have met many people who rejected Michael Jackson's music based on the allegations and general weirdness surrounding him, which makes no sense to me.

[c-man]

Last time I ever listen to Jerry Lee...

Well, then you'd better not listen to DW or The Beach Boys, 'cause Shawn was Dennis' first-cousin-once-removed (same relationship as Jerry Lee and his child bride, who was the daughter of Jerry Lee's first cousin and bandmate...same situation as Dennis/Mike/Shawn). 

Unless you're basing this decision on Myra Gale Brown Lewis being only 13 when Jerry married her...whereas Shawn was 16 when she and Dennis got together (and 19 when they married)...

[Rocker]

Last time I ever listen to Jerry Lee...

Don't. That guy has too much freakin' talent and genius inside to not listen to his music.