Arranging

[Rocker]

We know that Brian wrote out the arrangements for the musicians. But how did Dennis and Carl handle this? They're string and wind section arrangements mostly weren't as complex as Brian's but surely someone had to write 'em down I'd guess.... Did Dennis and Carl write music at all?

[the captain]

First, I think there are two different things there: transcribing music from brain (or other instrument) to paper, and arranging. And those two aren't necessarily the same thing. By their peaks, I'd guess both Carl and Dennis were capable of doing their own arrangements, more or less, meaning they could decide which instruments did what parts and when.

However, I don't know whether either actually wrote (though by some accounts Brian barely wrote, either). Daryl Dragon probably did a lot of whatever notation was necessary for players who needed sheet music, at least for Dennis.

[Rocker]

First, I think there are two different things there: transcribing music from brain (or other instrument) to paper, and arranging. And those two aren't necessarily the same thing. By their peaks, I'd guess both Carl and Dennis were capable of doing their own arrangements, more or less, meaning they could decide which instruments did what parts and when.

You're right, but I didn't want to make it too complicated
From interviews with some of the Wrecking Crew, Brian wrote down the parts (though in a simple form) for them and there's also a story how Brian wrote down some music while at the same time talking to someone. But to make the question a little clearer:
Did Dennis and Carl e.g. sit down at the piano and work out arrangements for their songs? And I'm not so much talking about the basic stuff like guitar, piano, etc (which probably was done with just chord-symbols) but strings and the wind section....

[mikeyj]

there's also a story how Brian wrote down some music while at the same time talking to someone.

Yep, that was David Sandler. Here is the text taken from page 176 of Catch A Wave:

That afternoon they were trying to record a horn arrangement to go with "Good Time," but when Brian finally woke up and padded down to the studio, the eight horn players he found waiting for him didn't know what to play. "So he went to his office and wrote horn charts while talking to me," Sandler says. "It was an amazing horn line, with this overriding French horn riff, and he did the whole thing while having a conversation with me."

[the captain]

There are also quotes from people talking about how Brian's notation was amateurish, though. And just as some people say he handed out music, others say they never saw any. I think that's up for debate, to a certain extent.

Back to the question, I think both Carl and Dennis by their primes were more likely to have general ideas and maybe a few specific, key parts for certain instruments. But as for the true arrangements, my guess is we're looking at Dragon and others fleshing out what were probably bigger picture ideas. Can you picture Dennis knowing the ranges of specific horns, or knowing that he had to transcribe the alto sax part down a minor third?

[Rocker]

Can you picture Dennis knowing the ranges of specific horns, or knowing that he had to transcribe the alto sax part down a minor third?

That's exactly why I asked this question.... Maybe Stebbins, Ed Roach or whoever has some insight can add something....

[Dancing Bear]

There are also quotes from people talking about how Brian's notation was amateurish, though. And just as some people say he handed out music, others say they never saw any. I think that's up for debate, to a certain extent.

I think Carol Kaye talks about Brian handing out very basic charts, and Desper never having seen any. So, chronologicaly, I guess Brian didn't bother too much with it after Smile was shelved.

[the captain]

If I'm not mistaken, Hal Blaine talks about never having seen them, either. And he'd have been around pre-Smile. I'd guess that he just didn't use them consistently because it took him longer to write (and copy--it's time consuming as hell, especially then, before software and printers could do it) than to give the guys the gist of it via piano, voice or whatever. It's not like the parts were that complicated from the contexts they were coming from.

[Rocker]

If I'm not mistaken, Hal Blaine talks about never having seen them, either. And he'd have been around pre-Smile.

I don't think that Brian wrote charts for the drums (don't think that he knew how to write drum-parts to tell you the truth) and the basic-instruments. That's why I asked about the strings and wind section. And of course, the original intent was to know how Carl and Dennis handled this. I think Denny got a credit on L.A. for arranging the strings on "Baby blue". Well, it's not very complex, but if someone else took some ideas from Dennis and then wrote an arragement, I guess that guy would have gotten the credit, wouldn't he?

[the captain]

Hal not having received drum parts isn't the same as not remembering having seen charts handed out. They were working as a group in the same room--presumably he'd have seen string or horn players be handed or reading from charts.

As for that Dennis point, it depends on the details.