The KTSA album

[doc smiley]

Now THAT's funny...just get me Randy Bachman's phone number and I'll get right on it!

If your serious Adam, I'm told that he's quite approachable on this kind of stuff..
maybe contact him through his website  randybachman.com.

 

[tpesky]

I think everything they did after is worse, and everything they did before is better. I'm not talking song by song just as LP's. Love You isn't my favorite but there are a few songs there that I think are first rate. KTSA does have more of an organic feel then the later stuff, frankly only a half dozen group tracks after Dennis died were worthy of their legacy and two of those didn't come out. I don't hate too many things on there except for "WGGT", "Endless Harmony" (despite some fine singing it's still Bruce at his most cloying), and "School Days" which made "Rock and Roll Music" look like "Break Away".

Bruce's production is pretty bad though much better then Melcher or Levine's. He lessens if not ruins some potential classics. Santa Ana Winds is a beautiful concept. Melodically it's wonderful, and I never minded the processing. What's wrong with it is first off the dorky spoken intro and secondly Mike. Mike shouldn't have used his whiny voice on such a delicate song. He's terrible on it. I guess I like the LA Light version better for all its rough spots.
KTSA is a good song for its genre, it should have kicked more and I blame Bruce for that. Still I like listening to it. Goin' On is the last Brian/Mike classic composition. If not for the horrible sax solo I would say it's a classic recording as well.

I always liked Goin On. I agree with Santa Ana Winds first version for sure! They would have needed to rewrite that first verse, on my porch thinking about the torch??? Get rid of the on my porch.  Even something like "sometimes I start thinkin bout the torch" Mike's nasal does not belong there. Some of You Love, WGGT and Sunshine are awful.  Never cared for School Days, why not just do Runaway on the album, Al sounded much better on that.
Funny, I remember a few years back Bruce blaming Carl for the album version of KTSA saying he wanted to make it rock and Carl did not.

[Jason]

Ahhhhhh, Keepin' the Summer Alive. No other BB album has had such venom spewed at it from yours truly. Indeed, easily the worst thing the band ever did. "Group effort"? More like Carl, Mike, Al, and Bruce trying to make sense out of Brian's half-finished ideas, Carl going into lame MOR mode (LA was COOL MOR), and Bruce being Bruce. And of course, Dennis knew it was horrible so he kept his distance. I rest my case.

I would argue too that Brian's lack of solo performances of KTSA-era tunes speaks volumes too - he has even more horrible things to say about the 1978-80 albums than I do!

[c-man]

One outtake I'd like to hear is Brian's song "Boys And Girls"...he's raved about that in later interviews, saying it was a huge mistake that they didn't finish it and/or release it.  He even did that one twice...the "KTSA" version (produced by Bruce), and a remake Brian cut a year later.  Don't know if vocals were added to either version, but I'm sure it's worth a listen. 

[Jay]

Having now listened to this:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC6DfsQo1RE

I think it could have been a nice little song.

You know, if they had worked on this a little more, cut out "When Girls Get Together", re-recorded "Some Of Your Love" with the keyboard synth intro like on the live versions, and added "Under The Moonlight", KTSA would have been a damn fine album. They could have also substituted "School Days" with "Why Don't They Let Us Fall In Love?".

[phirnis]

And of course, Dennis knew it was horrible so he kept his distance. I rest my case.

Did he deliberately chose to leave the project because he didn't like what Bruce and the group were putting together? Why wouldn't he rather contribute a few songs of his own in order to make it an overall much more successfull group effort? I know that mere logic doesn't apply to the world of the Beach Boys, but of course both M.I.U. and KTSA could have used a couple of Dennis tunes.

[Mr. Cohen]

For some reason, I like "Some of Your Love". I think it's the harmonies during the chorus. There's something really spacey and 'out there' about them, like Brian thought them up while he was on way too much coke. It's hard to explain, but they stop the song from being too bland, or Celebrationized as I call it in this particular instance. Also, IMO, "When Girls Get Together" is one of the best songs on KTSA! Same with "Santa Ana Winds". Yes, they're cheesy, but they're very interesting instrumentally and melodically, something that can't be said for a quite a few other KTSA songs.  I mean, come on, The BBs have always been cheesy! It seems like BB fans only take objection to the cheesiness when critics tell them to. Are you telling me "Barnyard" or "Vegetables" are any less cheesy? "Cool Cool Water" anyone? I'll never understand how Al's 5 second spoken intro (or however short it is) can ruin a whole song for people. Quit trying to be hip!

[Nicko1234]

Did he deliberately chose to leave the project because he didn't like what Bruce and the group were putting together? Why wouldn't he rather contribute a few songs of his own in order to make it an overall much more successfull group effort?

Apparently he did dislike it a lot and I can understand why he wouldn`t want to waste his own material on something he had no belief in. Maybe a reason why Carl as well later chose to write for outside projects rather than penning songs for the band.

[Nicko1234]

"Group effort"? More like Carl, Mike, Al, and Bruce trying to make sense out of Brian's half-finished ideas

That`s a pretty good description and `Sunshine` is probably the best example. Bruce has talked about the trouble they went to to adapt what Brian had come up with but what he didn`t say was why? It`s sad that the band members had lost confidence so much that they didn`t believe that with a bunch of talented session that they could record better music than that.

[MBE]

Let's be honest here Dennis wasn't in shape to record consistantly at this point. He couldn't finish Bambu let alone work with the Beach Boys. They had kicked him out at this point, and I doubt he was welcomed even by Carl who was newly clean. I love the man but I don't think he was worried about the artistic highground at this point. Perhaps misguidedly he wanted to be back in the group badly.

[c-man]

Let's be honest here Dennis wasn't in shape to record consistantly at this point. He couldn't finish Bambu let alone work with the Beach Boys. They had kicked him out at this point, and I doubt he was welcomed even by Carl who was newly clean. I love the man but I don't think he was worried about the artistic highground at this point. Perhaps misguidedly he wanted to be back in the group badly.

KTSA is way too short...the original intent was to give Brian a "Spector corner" on the album...if they'd done that, and stuck on "San Miguel" (unreleased at that point)...and maybe "Sea Cruise" (which, along with "San Miguel", came out anyway a year later), it would've been a much more well-rounded and better album.  Those two cuts would've gone a long way toward satisfiying our Dennis craving, and the addition of "Sea Cruise" along with "School Days" and Brian's "Spector corner" would've made it similar to 15 Big Ones in concept, only better, I believe ('cause the vocals were better). 

[Rocker]

Randy Bachman recorded "What's Your Hurry Darlin'" with his band Ironhorse during 1980, and then also recorded his own version of "Keep The Summer Alive" (note abbreviated title) with the band Union the following year ...

And are they any good in your opinion?

"What'y your hurry darlin'" has a melody similar to part of this song's melody, which was released in '91:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9RlS6ELw8U&feature=PlayList&p=59EDAECF68BBCD42&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=28

[Aegir]

I like Mike's nasal voice, so Santa Ana Winds is really cool to me. How can you guys not like When Girls Get Together? It's a Wilson/Love composition from the 60s!!

[Nicko1234]

Yeah, I don`t think When Girls Get Together is a bad song at all. I just think that it`s completely out of place on the album.

[donald]

Like some of you, I've been trying to like this album for almost 30 years.  That's right 30 YEARS.  Goin on and Keeping the Summer Alive are about all I can take.

Mike's voice on the album is nearly as bad as Brians.  Bad vocals = bad Beach Boys.  Sunshine could have been a lot better without the nasal.  Even a BW hoarse and gruff lead would have sounded better to me....more appealing.

But I really like the album cover!  I don't know the original intent of the cover but it seems quite cynical...keeping it all alive by extreme measures and artificial means.

I like Beach Boys 85 a lot better and some of the stuff yet to come such as Somewhere Near Japan and Soul Searchin.
And not to forget, the (until recently) unreleased Dennis Wilson, the sporadic but excellent work of Brian in subsequent years, and the Carl Wilson solo albums.

[Eric Aniversario]

LA ranks right up there in my top 3 BB albums of all time, but KTSA is kind of all over the place and doesn't work very well as a cohesive album...it's more like a collection of B-sides or something.  However, I do enjoy most of the songs on the album to some degree. 

I've always loved the title track, although I think that the bass vocal "duh-duh-duh" could have been left off like it was during live performances...this totally should have been the first single. 

It took a while for "Oh Darlin" to grow on me, but I really enjoy it now. 

"Some Of Your Love" would have been a LOT better if it had been shortened by about 30 seconds...the repetition toward the end is too much for me to take sometimes. 

"Livin With A Heartache" was a song I didn't like until I heard that it was recorded outdoors in a field, and for some reason, it changed the way I heard the song.  Great Carl vocals. 

"School Days" should not have been the 2nd single...what an embarassment. 

"Goin' On" should have been the 2nd single after KTSA, rather than the lead single. 

"Sunshine" is one of my favorite tracks, although it feels like something is missing and it's not a complete song...it feels like you're watching a parade float going by, and you're hearing one part of the song, and never get to hear the ending. 

WGGT has always seemed pointless and out of place for me. 

"Santa Ana Winds"...I agree with whoever said that the spoken intro should have been left off, as well as Mike's whiny vocal. 


"Endless Harmony"...love the 2nd half.

[Sheriff John Stone]

"Group effort"? More like Carl, Mike, Al, and Bruce trying to make sense out of Brian's half-finished ideas, Carl going into lame MOR mode (LA was COOL MOR), and Bruce being Bruce. And of course, Dennis knew it was horrible so he kept his distance. I rest my case.

I don't agree with your assessment. It WAS a group effort, and, except for Dennis' absence, it was precisely the way a Beach Boys' album should've come about, THEN AND NOW.

The album was built around a nucleus of B. Wilson/M. Love songs, with two Carl songs, the obligatory Al and Bruce tracks, and an oldie. Again, you add two Dennis tracks to that mix and you have an ENTIRE group effort, and a stronger album. How much more of a group effort did you want? To me, that's a blueprint for a good Beach Boys' album, one which I would like to see used for a reunion album.

I know the entire album wasn't done at Al's barn, but that documentary (which name escapes me, Going Platinum?) shows a happy and enthusiastic group. It was also united - for better or worse - by Bruce's production. I know it's a matter of opinion, but I think the "other guys'" tracks are excellent - the title cut, "Livin' With A Heartache", "Santa Ana Winds", and even "Endless Harmony" (as a closer). Brian and Mike's tracks could've been stronger - for them - but I'd have to at least call them good. It's actually the oldie "School Days" which disappoints, yet it's not embarrassing.

A quick comment on Dennis. I don't know if Dennis' absence was intentional or not (was he ill?), but, either way, it disappointed me. This was becoming a trend, Dennis not having tracks on a Beach Boys' album. First Surf's Up, then MIU, then KTSA. It's disappointing when somebody in the band doesn't want to contribute or boycotts an album because he doesn't think his bandmates' songs are strong enough, or as good as his? A team player? But he had a big heart....

[MBE]

Again people miss the point Dennis was not a Beach Boy when this was being recorded. Sure he showed up once or twice but he wasn't really welcome. If you call addiction illness then yes Dennis was very ill by this time.

[Wilsonista]

Stone, you never cease to amaze me.

Wasn't Dennis kicked out of the  band when that record was made? Oh wait, I can predict your response, "well whose fault was that? Dennis, the slacking druggie. But he had a big heart, right?"

EDIT: Thank you, Mike for pointing that out and confirming what I just wrote.

[TdHabib]

I think that the Brian/Mike compositions are mostly dreadful..."Goin' On" excepted. "Some of Your Love," give me a break!

Rob is right, from what I understand, Dennis simply could not produce complete great songs in 1980, his focus was shot. If you look at the Gigs/Sessions AGD has for June 1979-all of1980, there was not one session where he was present and contributing a song. I remember Desper saying Dennis cried when he was in the studio with the BB. So he's out.

Mike 's voice sabotages the great "Santa Ana Winds," the production kills "Oh Darlin" and THE TITLE CUT (especially); "Sunshine" is just stupid and I've already made comment on "Some of Your Love". Carl's songs had potential, but as I said before I love the title track but don't care for the production or Mike's vocal at all.

And further you can't blame Brian. Without a steady hand he was uncontrolable; I'm not defending Landy but without him from 1978-1982 he was really in bad shape. Mentally and physically very ill. He couldn't contribute much and what he did was esssentially variations on a very simple theme. Cocaine sessions excepted.

This album really was dead before it started.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Again people miss the point Dennis was not a Beach Boy when this was being recorded. Sure he showed up once or twice but he wasn't really welcime. If you call addiction illness then yes Dennis was very ill by this time.

MBE, I wasn't missing the point. If you notice, I put "was he ill?" in my post, because I wasn't sure where he was at with his problems during the recording of KTSA. I was trying to recall some dates/appearances from 1979 - I know he was on the The Midnight Special and I saw him live in 1979, and I recall he was with the band for the 1980 4th Of July festivities. Maybe in between those high profile appearances he was not available? Or made not available. It does seem kind of ironic that Brian and Carl, of all people, would vote Dennis out of the group. And for that reason (addictions). Or maybe they didn't?  

I do, however, stand by my point that Dennis withheld his participation/songs from albums for reasons that don't seem "team" oriented.

[Rocker]

the production kills "Oh Darlin"

Plus the arrangement. Man that song was slaughtered to death !

I do, however, stand by my point that Dennis withheld his participation/songs from albums for reasons that don't seem "team" oriented.

First, what are the reasons? I haven't read about them, but maybe I missed something.
Second, how could he have contributed songs, when he hadn't any good ones? He already gave the band "Love surrounds me" and "Baby blue" which were supposed to go on "Bambu".

It does seem kind of ironic that Brian and Carl, of all people, would vote Dennis out of the group.

It is well known that Mike more or less had control over Brian's voting right.

First Surf's Up, then MIU, then KTSA. It's disappointing when somebody in the band doesn't want to contribute or boycotts an album because he doesn't think his bandmates' songs are strong enough, or as good as his? A team player?

He did contribute songs to "Surf's up" but had a fight with Carl over them. It wasn't like he didn't give them any.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I do, however, stand by my point that Dennis withheld his participation/songs from albums for reasons that don't seem "team" oriented.

First, what are the reasons? I haven't read about them, but maybe I missed something.
Second, how could he have contributed songs, when he hadn't any good ones? He already gave the band "Love surrounds me" and "Baby blue" which were supposed to go on "Bambu".

It does seem kind of ironic that Brian and Carl, of all people, would vote Dennis out of the group.

It is well known that Mike more or less had control over Brian's voting right.

First Surf's Up, then MIU, then KTSA. It's disappointing when somebody in the band doesn't want to contribute or boycotts an album because he doesn't think his bandmates' songs are strong enough, or as good as his? A team player?

He did contribute songs to "Surf's up" but had a fight with Carl over them. It wasn't like he didn't give them any.

Now things are getting lively again!

Well, if I've read correctly, Dennis had a song (or songs, including "Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again"?) which were considered for the Surf's Up album. However, if I've read correctly, he wasn't happy with the song sequencing, specifically HIS song's placement, and, in essence, took his ball and went home.

On September 2nd or 3rd, 1977, Dennis got into that infamous "airport argument" with Mike and Al. Thus, during the recording of MIU, Dennis is mostly absent. On top of that, he went public with his own scathing review of the album, his band's album. A team player? Did he turn down his portion of the money the band received for the album?

Again, I don't know if Dennis had any songs - or felt like trying to write songs - for KTSA. I simply raised the question and stated that I was disappointed that he didn't contribute.

And, finally, I would love to see the minutes of those voting meetings.... Just to see IF Mike voted FOR Brian, but, even more importantly, to see how Carl and Dennis voted. It's been written that Brian "gave his vote to Mike". I'd like to read more about that. It doesn't make any sense.

[TdHabib]

I do, however, stand by my point that Dennis withheld his participation/songs from albums for reasons that don't seem "team" oriented.

And, finally, I would love to see the minutes of those voting meetings.... Just to see IF Mike voted FOR Brian, but, even more importantly, to see how Carl and Dennis voted. It's been written that Brian "gave his vote to Mike". I'd like to read more about that. It doesn't make any sense.

He was scared and paranoid...mentally ill and just wanted peace. Mike always put up a fight.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I do, however, stand by my point that Dennis withheld his participation/songs from albums for reasons that don't seem "team" oriented.

And, finally, I would love to see the minutes of those voting meetings.... Just to see IF Mike voted FOR Brian, but, even more importantly, to see how Carl and Dennis voted. It's been written that Brian "gave his vote to Mike". I'd like to read more about that. It doesn't make any sense.

He was scared and paranoid...mentally ill and just wanted peace. Mike always put up a fight.

Mike always put up a fight? If that's true, was Mike fighting for the same thing(s) that Brian would fight for? From what I have been reading lately about Brian's feelings for Mike - on this board actually - you'd think Mike Love would be the last guy Brian would "give" his vote to. Why not his brothers, Carl and Dennis? Brian loved them; they were talented, non-caustic, serious musicians.