Mike & Bruce CBS Atlanta

[Outie 315]

 Mike & Bruce Atlanta:

 http://www.cbsatlanta.com/video/19928602/index.html

[Sheriff John Stone]

Thanks for the link, Outie 315.

As Bruce gets older, he's starting to look more like Jack Nicklaus.

[Outie 315]

Scott Totten's HOT IRON!

[the captain]

You know what's really cool that I thought of while watching this? When Mike discusses people of all ages coming to shows, I thought of the fact that the earliest clip I saw where that is discussed is Carl, somewhere in the Brian's Back era (I saw it on Endless Harmony), talking about the Endless Summer-era shows, with kids too young to have been born when those first hits came out. OK ... so Carl was saying this about 35 years ago and it STILL holds true. That is just astounding. No, they aren't selling out high-priced shows in stadiums, but they do continue to draw fans almost 50 years after they started. Really remarkable to me: whatever I have disliked about their new product from the late 70s onward (almost all of it) and about some of the things Mike in particular has said and done, I have to respect that they--especially Mike and Bruce, at their ages--are still out doing shows. And I am in awe that people still like those shows.

[Outie 315]

 Look @ The fans digin' it:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSLDGUYL0Rc

[Sheriff John Stone]

You know what's really cool that I thought of while watching this? When Mike discusses people of all ages coming to shows, I thought of the fact that the earliest clip I saw where that is discussed is Carl, somewhere in the Brian's Back era (I saw it on Endless Harmony), talking about the Endless Summer-era shows, with kids too young to have been born when those first hits came out. OK ... so Carl was saying this about 35 years ago and it STILL holds true. That is just astounding. No, they aren't selling out high-priced shows in stadiums, but they do continue to draw fans almost 50 years after they started. Really remarkable to me: whatever I have disliked about their new product from the late 70s onward (almost all of it) and about some of the things Mike in particular has said and done, I have to respect that they--especially Mike and Bruce, at their ages--are still out doing shows. And I am in awe that people still like those shows.

Yep, exactly.

And, not to steal Mike & Bruce's line, but it also shows the power of The Beach Boys' music. People on this board (and others) don't like it when Mike talks about the music in terms of "Fun Fun Fun" and "Good Vibrations" - but he knows what he's talking about.

[the captain]

You know I have plenty against what Mike has said, and his artistic side has left plenty to be desired over the past, oh, 35-40 years. But his statement about playing hits (as opposed to "the new album") actually reminded me of a Branford Marsalis statement about the brilliant jazz/serious pianist Cecil Taylor, who of his almost absurdly difficult music said something like "I prepare for my concerts; the audience should, too." Marsalis' response was along the lines of "that is pretentious bullshit." In fact, another critic (also in the Ken Burns jazz doc from which the aforementioned was pulled) says "Cecil Taylor has the right to do whatever he wants; and I have the right not to listen." That is exactly what Mike Love is saying: he is, like it or not, doing exactly what many people want him to do, year in and year out.

[Sheriff John Stone]

You know I have plenty against what Mike has said, and his artistic side has left plenty to be desired over the past, oh, 35-40 years. But his statement about playing hits (as opposed to "the new album") actually reminded me of a Branford Marsalis statement about the brilliant jazz/serious pianist Cecil Taylor, who of his almost absurdly difficult music said something like "I prepare for my concerts; the audience should, too." Marsalis' response was along the lines of "that is pretentious bullmerda." In fact, another critic (also in the Ken Burns jazz doc from which the aforementioned was pulled) says "Cecil Taylor has the right to do whatever he wants; and I have the right not to listen." That is exactly what Mike Love is saying: he is, like it or not, doing exactly what many people want him to do, year in and year out.

Yep, again.

[the captain]

If I may complicate my position, though, (just as I love the Brian Wilson to Mike Love) I love Cecil Taylor. And not only does he have the right to do what he does, it's essential that someone do (or in this case, have done) it. To act as if your audience ought to prepare for you is bullshit. But on the other hand, as a musician, you do not owe your audience anything, either. If angular, nonfunctional lines and blitzkrieg flurries of arpeggios on a piano are what you do, fine. You owe nobody. The audience, similarly, does not owe you. Hopefully someone sees the value in what you do ... but don't count on it. It's why the bitching about what [so-and-so] is doing--AND AT THESE PRICES!--cracks me up. It doesn't matter. Too steep, don't like it? Don't go. Problem solved.

[Sheriff John Stone]

It's why the bitching about what [so-and-so] is doing--AND AT THESE PRICES!--cracks me up. It doesn't matter. Too steep, don't like it? Don't go. Problem solved.

The parts I highlighted makes your case; and I guess I'm agreeing with you, even though I personally still struggle with it.

I DJ on weekends, and I learned the hard way to give the people what they want. When I first started out, I thought, "I'll show these people. I'll play REAL music, not the crap that other DJs play." And I got my ass kicked. Now, KC & The Sunshine Band, the Black Eyed Peas, and Lady Gaga are my best friends. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

I also remember something Frank Sinatra said, and I'm paraphrasing liberally, "When I see all of those people who came to see me, coming from far away, all dressed up, all yelling my name amd applauding for me, well, I OWE it to them to sing the songs they want me to sing. I wnat them to go away happy."

I know those two examples are a little bit of apples and oranges, and, as I said, I guess I agree with you. But, a big part of me falls into the category of fans who thinks the artist should "give the people what they want". And, it's ironic I am posting this, because tomorrow night at this time I'll be watching Bob Dylan performing a song that 75% of his audience don't know. And he goes on and on and on...

[the captain]

I sound like the Republican that I'm not when I say, doesn't the free market solve it all? Good--great, even!--art may well suffer and die. But might it be better that it risks failure in the short run than that every piece of pretentious feces be somehow subsidized? Kids want the Lady Gaga? Good! Play it. You want to listen to [whatever ... probably the fuckin Doors!  ]? Good! Listen to it. It all works out. Despite an academic period in unsaleable arts and friends in even less commercially viable arts, I'm shockingly sink-or-swim in that regard. Art is BOTH art and craft. It's inspiration and workmanlike effort. Both are entirely valid, and maybe with different ends. But it seems to me that the latter is predestined to commercial success...and the former wouldn't want patronage.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Art is BOTH art and craft. It's inspiration and workmanlike effort. Both are entirely valid, and maybe with different ends. But it seems to me that the latter is predestined to commercial success...and the former wouldn't want patronage.

Yep, for the third time. A good note to retire on. I'm going to bed. Willie Nelson takes the stage at 5:30 tomorrow night!

Hey, I just thought about this: look at the difference between the opening act - Willie Nelson, who plays nothing but his hits, and then Dylan, who goes out of way to mix it up. Fascinating; deserves a thread of its own.

On the road again, just can't wait to get on the road again....

[Rocker]

Look @ The fans digin' it:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSLDGUYL0Rc

Thanks for th elink. This and the other videos just show again how much the band has improved and how great Mike's son sounds. They use the same arrangement on the "ooh-bap-bap-good vibrations"-part as Brian did on the Roxy-CD. Nice to hear them doing more vocal parts now than just the same they did through all those decades.

@SJS: Have fun at Willie's show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPMxJROHInM&feature=PlayList&p=2467FC41B7BF0EE8&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=3

[KokoMoses]

Like I've said a million times, if you and I had all those hits under our belts, we'd play them too and would be happy to do so, and it would probably be something of an addiction in the best way.

God bless them!

[the captain]

Like I've said a million times, if you and I had all those hits under our belts, we'd play them too and would be happy to do so, and it would probably be something of an addiction in the best way.

God bless them!

Actually I'd retire, sit home and never see the light of day again.

[Aegir]

The thing I don't understand about this line of discussion that's been going on is that Mike & Bruce play a lot of songs that aren't "hits" in the sense that the audience wants to hear them specifically. It's not like a casual Beach Boys fan is familiar with most of the songs on Today! or anything. They're just playing songs they think are "good", which is often the 63 - 66 period.

[Sheriff John Stone]

@SJS: Have fun at Willie's show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPMxJROHInM&feature=PlayList&p=2467FC41B7BF0EE8&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=3

Rocker, if you're out there, I apologize for missing this link a couple of weeks ago. That is great! I never saw that video before. I've heard that Dylan/Willie version of "Pancho And Lefty", loved it, and always wondered where it came from. Now I know. Thanks for posting it.