random curiosity

[jammer730]

Has anybody, other than those present at the sessions, heard the instrumental or vocal sessions for Deirdre, great song, barely talked about.

Also, how about "Won't You Tell Me"? mind-blowing harmonies, was it the last project Brian worked on involving Murry?

Thirdly, anybody listened to "I'm on My Way"? The Sunrays harmonies were so freakin' close to the boys. I had a post a little while back about bands sounding like the Beach Boys. In this song, I think they pull it off, especially whoever's falsetto that is.

One last thought, not to bring up a billion old discussions, but when i listen to Brian on Love You and Brian from Sunflower/Surf's Up era, whew, this is a whole different person I'm hearing, at least it sounds like that. Nowhere else in life have I ever heard someone's voice change like that, at least while in their 30's. It's like Brian was so deeply into his binge, the boys created "Brian 2.0" in a lab somewhere, hahaha.

Anyway, any thoughts about the subjects mentioned would be awesome.

[Sheriff John Stone]

One last thought, not to bring up a billion old discussions, but when i listen to Brian on Love You and Brian from Sunflower/Surf's Up era, whew, this is a whole different person I'm hearing, at least it sounds like that. Nowhere else in life have I ever heard someone's voice change like that, at least while in their 30's. It's like Brian was so deeply into his binge, the boys created "Brian 2.0" in a lab somewhere, hahaha.

Anyway, any thoughts about the subjects mentioned would be awesome?

I think from 1970 (Sunflower) up to late 1976 (Love You), Brian snorted large amounts of cocaine, literally "scorching" his vocal cords and permanently ruining his prior voice.

[The Heartical Don]

...interesting. I always thought that Bri found something of his old warm voice back on the (little-talked about) Don Was 'unplugged' CD. Notably 'The Warmth Of The Sun' and 'Wonderful' are great. And I do not think that this record is doctored. The irony is, of course, that 'Still I Dream Of It', by far the oldest recording on this album, has the hoarsest, crudest Brian vocals.

Your take.

[PongHit]

I do not think that this record is doctored.

I thought there was some pitch-correction on his voice (?)

[The Heartical Don]

I do not think that this record is doctored.

I thought there was some pitch-correction on his voice (?)

Spoilsport! 

[Bicyclerider]

One last thought, not to bring up a billion old discussions, but when i listen to Brian on Love You and Brian from Sunflower/Surf's Up era, whew, this is a whole different person I'm hearing, at least it sounds like that. Nowhere else in life have I ever heard someone's voice change like that, at least while in their 30's. It's like Brian was so deeply into his binge, the boys created "Brian 2.0" in a lab somewhere, hahaha.

Anyway, any thoughts about the subjects mentioned would be awesome?

I think from 1970 (Sunflower) up to late 1976 (Love You), Brian snorted large amounts of cocaine, literally "scorching" his vocal cords and permanently ruining his prior voice.

Yet on MIU his voice is mostly "back" (not completely) including his falsetto!

[Sheriff John Stone]

One last thought, not to bring up a billion old discussions, but when i listen to Brian on Love You and Brian from Sunflower/Surf's Up era, whew, this is a whole different person I'm hearing, at least it sounds like that. Nowhere else in life have I ever heard someone's voice change like that, at least while in their 30's. It's like Brian was so deeply into his binge, the boys created "Brian 2.0" in a lab somewhere, hahaha.

Anyway, any thoughts about the subjects mentioned would be awesome?

I think from 1970 (Sunflower) up to late 1976 (Love You), Brian snorted large amounts of cocaine, literally "scorching" his vocal cords and permanently ruining his prior voice.

Yet on MIU his voice is mostly "back" (not completely) including his falsetto!

Yes, one of the great mysteries...I bought MIU the day it was released and was emotional when I heard Brian's voice, not just because of his falsetto on "She's Got Rhythm", but also on the tag to "Winds Of Change". His vocal on "Matchpoint Of Our Love" remains, for me, his best post-Til I Die lead vocal.

There is a contender for that "title", however, and that would be Brian's fairly recent lead vocals on "God Only Knows" and his cover of Carl's "Heaven". Where did they come from!?

[Roger Ryan]

I was hoping this thread would be more about "Deirdre" than Brian's vocals 

I like "Deirdre" as well, although it's a pretty minor track given the quality of the SUNFLOWER album. Reportedly, Brian had little to do with the writing of it (perhaps just the first ten notes of the verses), but as far as Bruce's songs go, it's one that blends in particularly well with the rest of the material on the album (which is not really the case for the somewhat overwrought "Tears In The Morning"). Rolling Stone referred to "Deirdre" as sounding like it could be "Beach Boys-influenced anybody", but I think parts of it are quite unique like the bass runs late in the song.

Oh, alright...Brian definitely damaged his voice through smoking and cocaine abuse, but it appears that when he stayed away from these vices, he was able to regain some of his old tone and timbre. Hence, the decent vocals on MIU, then again in the mid-80s. Brian picked up the smoking habit again in the early 90s and it affected his voice again, but since quitting in '96, his vocals have been more or less the same quality as far as the tone and timbre (whether he sings on key is another issue).

Another thing to consider is that I don't think Brian really developed his adult voice until he hit thirty - throughout his 20s he was able to hold on to his late adolescent voice. What you heard on 15 BIG ONES and LOVE YOU was not just a damaged voice, but a damaged adult voice. Since Brian wasn't heard singing much on record from '72 - '76, the change from '71 to '76 was even more pronounced.*


*I've done voice-overs for my entire adult life, but when I listen back to recordings I made in my twenties, my tone still sounds boy-ish. When I hit thirty, my voice changed to what I call "my adult tone" that has remained consistent for the last sixteen years. NOTE: No smoking, drugs or drinking so the tone shift was completely natural.

[slothrop]

"Deirdre" is a great track. Originally, I couldn't stand the whole middle section of Sunflower, being "Got to Know the Woman" to "Tears in the Morning". "Got to Know" has grown on me a bit, though I still can't stand the female backing vocals and the lyrics are sophomoric for most of the song. "It's About Time" just isn't happening for me and "Tears" as someone said in an earlier post is "overwrought" if anything.

"Deirdre" however has become a favorite of the album. Like a little 1970's pop hit that should've been. The great vocals (Brian's parts are ethereal), the flutes fluttering in the back...for some reason the "Deirdre" at the end of the chorus sounds like it's from some sort of TV sitcom though. Like "Deirdre" is the title character and that's part of the theme song. However, this, for some reason only adds to the commercial charm of the song.

And can't agree more with the comments on Love You. For instance, listen to how pure and beautiful his vocal is on "Good Time" (recorded during the Sunflower sessions, why didn't they put it on the album! Just one full Brian lead would've perfected that album!) compared to "Let's Put Our Hearts Together," in my opinion the roughest vocal cut on the album. Although there's still a lot of emotion there, you can tell his voice has just been ravaged from the smokin' and cokin' he was so into. He should've just stuck to joints and acid.

[TdHabib]

One last thought, not to bring up a billion old discussions, but when i listen to Brian on Love You and Brian from Sunflower/Surf's Up era, whew, this is a whole different person I'm hearing, at least it sounds like that. Nowhere else in life have I ever heard someone's voice change like that, at least while in their 30's. It's like Brian was so deeply into his binge, the boys created "Brian 2.0" in a lab somewhere, hahaha.

Anyway, any thoughts about the subjects mentioned would be awesome?

I think from 1970 (Sunflower) up to late 1976 (Love You), Brian snorted large amounts of cocaine, literally "scorching" his vocal cords and permanently ruining his prior voice.

Yet on MIU his voice is mostly "back" (not completely) including his falsetto!

Yes, one of the great mysteries...I bought MIU the day it was released and was emotional when I heard Brian's voice, not just because of his falsetto on "She's Got Rhythm", but also on the tag to "Winds Of Change". His vocal on "Matchpoint Of Our Love" remains, for me, his best post-Til I Die lead vocal.

There is a contender for that "title", however, and that would be Brian's fairly recent lead vocals on "God Only Knows" and his cover of Carl's "Heaven". Where did they come from!?

It certainly is an interesting point. Some here opened up my eyes to the fact that his M.I.U. have a lot of echo, are a few takes spliced together and some of hisbackground parts are backed off in the mix to hide the fact they really aren't that good. But his leads on the three you mentioned are smooth, though.

I know you're not the biggest fan of it, but I think "Live Let Live" from TLOS should be lumped into the GREAT NEW VOCALS category as well as "What Love Can Do," which is REALLY smooth and emotive for Brian. As well as the two you mentioned, they're superb. "Live Let Live" is just a very engaged and on-pitch performance.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I know you're not the biggest fan of it, but I think "Live Let Live" from TLOS should be lumped into the GREAT NEW VOCALS category as well as "What Love Can Do," which is REALLY smooth and emotive for Brian. As well as the two you mentioned, they're superb. "Live Let Live" is just a very engaged and on-pitch performance.

I agree; they are two of his better ones. And, more importantly, it gives you hope and confidence that he (Brian) is far from done - vocally.

[MBE]

The closest he ever sounded to the old Brian to me was the 1994 GIOMH demo. The intonation, the way he pronouces and holds words. It sounds like what the older Brian may always sound like had he not damged his voice. With outtakes showing his voice was basically intact through 1974 it's amazing how hoarse he was by late 1975. As far as cocaine goes I think it did play a role, but I don't think his use got completely outragous until Murry died. Same with smoking. Carl said he didn't even know Brian did cocaine until the So Tough sessions.

[Amazing Larry]

I think from 1970 (Sunflower) up to late 1976 (Love You), Brian snorted large amounts of cocaine, literally "scorching" his vocal cords and permanently ruining his prior voice.
[/quote]

I don't think Brian was snorting a lot of cocain until the "So Tough" sessions.

[Aegir]

During 15 Big Ones and Love You, Brian also purposely sang a lot more "manly", so besides his voice being wrecked, some of the different sound was intentional.

[grillo]

I think from 1970 (Sunflower) up to late 1976 (Love You), Brian snorted large amounts of cocaine, literally "scorching" his vocal cords and permanently ruining his prior voice.

I don't think Brian was snorting a lot of cocain until the "So Tough" sessions.
[/quote]
According to Reum, Brian was snorting since '68, although almost everyone else agrees with you.

[Marie Jayne]

Hi all, I'm new here!!    I love Brian's croaky, ragged 70s voice, I can't help it, I just do! Obviously I adore his soft beautiful 60s voice and angelic falsetto. I think during the 80s his voice sometimes sounded a little thin with less depth to it. He's sounding great nowadays.

[Amanda Hart]

I think from 1970 (Sunflower) up to late 1976 (Love You), Brian snorted large amounts of cocaine, literally "scorching" his vocal cords and permanently ruining his prior voice.

According to Reum, Brian was snorting since '68, although almost everyone else agrees with you.

I was under the impression from reading various books and from this board that he first tried it in '68, started to become a regular user around '71 but that it didn't become "a problem" until around the time of "So Tough"

[The Heartical Don]

Hi all, I'm new here!!    I love Brian's croaky, ragged 70s voice, I can't help it, I just do! Obviously I adore his soft beautiful 60s voice and angelic falsetto. I think during the 80s his voice sometimes sounded a little thin with less depth to it. He's sounding great nowadays.

...and welcome to you, Marie Jayne! I think his voice was 'processed' a lot in the '80s, be it by Steve Levine or some sort of Landy/Titelman/Waronker/Lynne (?) team. He sounded smoother on his 'Brian Wilson' comeback album than he did in reality.

[Alex]

Hi all, I'm new here!!    I love Brian's croaky, ragged 70s voice, I can't help it, I just do! Obviously I adore his soft beautiful 60s voice and angelic falsetto. I think during the 80s his voice sometimes sounded a little thin with less depth to it. He's sounding great nowadays.

Welcome!!

[Marie Jayne]

Hi all, I'm new here!!    I love Brian's croaky, ragged 70s voice, I can't help it, I just do! Obviously I adore his soft beautiful 60s voice and angelic falsetto. I think during the 80s his voice sometimes sounded a little thin with less depth to it. He's sounding great nowadays.

...and welcome to you, Marie Jayne! I think his voice was 'processed' a lot in the '80s, be it by Steve Levine or some sort of Landy/Titelman/Waronker/Lynne (?) team. He sounded smoother on his 'Brian Wilson' comeback album than he did in reality.

   

Thank you! Yeah, they seemed to iron out some of the character and soul of his voice, I'd rather hear it sounding real even if it's not technically perfect.

[Marie Jayne]

Hi all, I'm new here!!    I love Brian's croaky, ragged 70s voice, I can't help it, I just do! Obviously I adore his soft beautiful 60s voice and angelic falsetto. I think during the 80s his voice sometimes sounded a little thin with less depth to it. He's sounding great nowadays.

Welcome!!

  Thank you kindly! 

[MBE]

I think from 1970 (Sunflower) up to late 1976 (Love You), Brian snorted large amounts of cocaine, literally "scorching" his vocal cords and permanently ruining his prior voice.

According to Reum, Brian was snorting since '68, although almost everyone else agrees with you.

I was under the impression from reading various books and from this board that he first tried it in '68, started to become a regular user around '71 but that it didn't become "a problem" until around the time of "So Tough"

That's about right. It probably bacame a daily thing after Murry died.

[SmileySam]

I can see how constant smoking can wreck your vocal chords, but how does cocaine wreck them exactly?

[the captain]

"As cocaine passes by the delicate vocal cords, it irritates them ... leads to the constriction of the blood supply to the vocal cords. After short-term use, some cocaine smokers report voice problems for months."

- The Cocaine Recovery Book, Paul H. Earley, M.D.
http://books.google.com/books?id=1ezyjd9AMqsC&pg=PA19&lpg=PA19&dq=cocaine+vocal+damage&source=bl&ots=exOkflqhlE&sig=I-LWmPDMR1lbjrHnYftVTKzgDCY&hl=en&ei=jNJ4StTEJ4GxlAeJxqiZBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7#v=onepage&q=cocaine%20vocal%20damage&f=false

[Andrew G. Doe]

"As cocaine passes by the delicate vocal cords, it irritates them ... leads to the constriction of the blood supply to the vocal cords. After short-term use, some cocaine smokers report voice problems for months."

- The Cocaine Recovery Book, Paul H. Earley, M.D.
http://books.google.com/books?id=1ezyjd9AMqsC&pg=PA19&lpg=PA19&dq=cocaine+vocal+damage&source=bl&ots=exOkflqhlE&sig=I-LWmPDMR1lbjrHnYftVTKzgDCY&hl=en&ei=jNJ4StTEJ4GxlAeJxqiZBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7#v=onepage&q=cocaine%20vocal%20damage&f=false

Small problem here - Brian snorted, not smoked.