"The Notorious Byrd Brothers" & "Smile" - any similarities?

[Mithras]

In the "Byrds" thread on this message board, there is much praise of  the band´s early 1968 effort "The Notorious Byrd Brothers", which is also my favourite Byrds album.

In the reissue liner notes, David Fricke ("Rolling Stone") mentions that  producer Gary Usher (no introduction needed on this message board) and the band tried to envision something similar to those things "Brian Wilson did in his Smile period".

My questions are: How close were the relationship between Usher and Brian during the "Smile" sessions and were the Byrds (possibly via Van Dyke Parks or Gary Usher) informed about the things Brian and the Beach Boys were working on?
And do you see any similarities between "TNBB" and "Smile"?

[jazzfascist]

Don't know about Ushers relationship.
The cover is actually a little similar of Smile's, with the three of them staring out of the stable, instead of a smile-shop. Thematically it's also a little the same, the americana/western theme and elements/ecology. The music maybe not so much, but some of it like "Draft Morning" might be a little meditative a la "Wind Chimes".

Søren

[theeponymuseudonym]

Personally, i get more of a pisces,aquarius,capricorn,&JonesLTD feeling off of TNBB.

I LOVE both records!!!!

[donald]

As much as I love the Byrds I can't for the life of me see a connection or similarity  between NBB and SMiLE.
Maybe the use of some western themes..........
and Goin Back.....could be a bit of a return to innocence as with  In My Childhood

but overall it's a stretch to compare the two.

And frankly, that album seemed a bit thin and used a little too much filler following the decimation of the original band.  Overuse of effects, excessive horns, and covering a Carol King song, to mention a few examples.

[Jason Penick]

Interesting question posed, but I've racked my brain and can't come up with any similarities.  I don't see much of an Americana theme developed on NBB, the songs themselves are totally different from anything on SMiLE, and even the special effects employed are different (the crossfade between "Natural Harmony" and "Draft Morning" vs the butt-edits found on SMiLE is one example.)

The Gary Usher project with obvious SMiLE parallels is Present Tense by Sagittarius, so maybe that should be the subject of this thread?

[Old Rake]

And frankly, that album seemed a bit thin and used a little too much filler

??

covering a Carol King song

There are horns on, if I'm not mistaken, one song, and what ever is wrong with covering a Carole King song? I'd say a certain "Pleasant Valley Sunday" would like to know!

[donald]

Yes. Comparing NBB to that Monkees LP would be a better comparison than SMiLE.

I like NBB.  Listened to it a lot over the years.  But for staying power and classic status, I must nominate Younger than Yesterday, which was produced by Gary Usher.  Despite that connection to Brian Wilson, I see no similarity to SMiLE here either.

[wind chime]

I cant see any direct influence as they were still recording the final tracks when Smiley came out, and I dont see any musical similarities except the concept of linked tracks (even Pepper had virtually no gap between songs, also early Moody Blues lps)...I mean most groups were doing their "Pepper" LP at this time anyway (Stones TSMR and Who Sell Out etc...)in fact he Byrds album is somewhat late as the group wasn't getting along during the recording of NBB delaying production...it came out on Jan 2 1968...hardly the summer of love! I'm not sure McGuinn and Co were really fully aware of the orginal Smile as they were recording YTY in late 66...and dealing with the loss of Gene Clark...also, McGuinn often mentions the Beatles rather than the BB's as competitors (heck even BW did) Interesting idea though!

[Mithras]

I only wondered about David Fricke´s statement in the liner notes that both Usher and the "Byrds" wanted to achieve something like Brian during the "Smile period".

O.k., the liner notes where written in 1996 or 1997, and as we see after the release of "BWPS", nobody except some few really had a correct idea about what Brian envisioned when he created "Smile" in 1966/67.  But Fricke is on the other hand a well-informed person and befriended with Roger McGuinn, so i wonder WHAT actually were these guys trying to achieve with "TNBB" and what did they think what Brian tried to create during that time.

So it would be interesting to know if Gary Usher for example participated at one of the "Smile"sessions and knew what was going on in 1966/67  (or was his relationship with Brian not that close during that period of time?).  And the "Byrds" were friends of Van Dyke Parks so maybe he also told them something about the project.

The Gary Usher project with obvious SMiLE parallels is Present Tense by Sagittarius, so maybe that should be the subject of this thread?

Is this album worth a listen? And does anyone know about an retrospective kind of interview by Gary Usher about those years and especially "TNBB"?

[Evenreven]

Worth a listen? It's worth a gazillion listens, my friend. One of the best records ever released. DEAL WITH IT!

[Jason Penick]

Worth a listen? It's worth a gazillion listens, my friend. One of the best records ever released. DEAL WITH IT!

What he said...