SMiLE as Released in 1967

[Jcc]

Obviously we've discussed the topic before of "What would have happened if SMiLE came out in 1967" but I was thinking about it this morning.  I know there have to be folks on this board who were Beach Boy fans in 1967, or even fans of popular music at the time.   Perhaps the best way to gauge the answer to this question would be to ask the board members of, shall we say, "advanced years." 

So tell us, if a Beach Boys SMiLE (let's say sounding like BWPS) had come out in 1967, how would you have reacted to the album?  Would you have listened to it?  Would you have bought it?  Would you or your friends have thought it was weird and drugged out?  Tell us! 

I wasn't born until 1976 but my Mom was a huge Beatles/Beach Boys fan in 1967 (Dad was more into the Who, Hendrix, Janis Joplin, and the Stones).   Mom bought the Sgt. Pepper album and hated it.  She thought it was "druggy" and "weird".  On the other hand, her interest in the Beach Boys faded out around 1967 but she always liked the singles off Pet Sounds and of course Good Vibrations.  She thoroughly enjoyed BW on the Pet Sounds and Smile tours, though my parents have nicknamed him the "wooden man" because of his less than Jaggeresque stage presence. 

Nevertheless, my Mom really liked BWPS when she heard it for the first time and she believed that she would have felt the same way had she heard it in 1967.

[the captain]

I don't think that, even with the utmost honesty and best of intentions, anyone could accurately say how he or she would have felt 40-some years ago if presented with an album that instead comes with all those years' worth of baggage. No matter what, they will be filtering their best guesses with a lot of stories, sounds and years. But like you, I'm a 1976 baby, and so I can't even begin to try.

[Bicyclerider]

I think I can confidently say I would have loved Smile if it had come out in 67 - I loved Pepper and the Mothers' Absolutely Free, which I believe would qualify me to enthusiastically adopt Smile as well.  My reaction to Smiley Smile was mixed - I did think it was weird at first and was disappointed at the bare bones production compared to Pet Sounds and good Vibrations, but quickly grew to love it for that same weirdness and quirky humor.  the fact that I stuck with the Beach Boys through the "hard years" of low sales and unpopularity in 68-72, buying and enjoying each album, shows that I would have been right there for the art rock statement of Smile.

[chris.metcalfe]

I was 13 but a Beatles fan since age 9 and didn't get much exposure to them between 64-66. 67 was the year I got 'back on track as far as listening - a new transistor radio helped - and had Sgt Pepper as a present; no doubt Smile would have followed suit. I well remember (I do!) a day when some friends came along and we had the Monkees LPs, Smiley Smile and a few earlier BBs, the Beatles albums, some Tamla stuff etc. In the UK Good Vibrations was #1 for weeks at the end of 66 so the anticipation was huge, definitely Smiley was not what was expected. I think the epic quality of the putative Side One would have fit the bill exactly, even Pepper was regarded as less commercial than earlier stuff but still sold gazillions. I can remember exactly where I was when I first heard H&V in the summer of 67! (and I can't remember what I had for dinner two days ago). In its reduced form it blew my little socks off, so Smile would not have disappointed, whatever its contents.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I ordered a time machine to go back to 1967 to see exactly how Brian intended Smile to be. After plugging it in I got electracuted and passed out. Then I started dreaming that I was there with Brian, and he told me that there was only two songs on the album. Side A is a 22 1/2 miniute long Heroes and Villains, and Side B with a 22 1/2 miniute long Surf's Up. When I came to, I had a revelation. This damn time machine doesn't work at all!!

[Alex]

A while back I read thos story about a guy named Ray Shackleford who went back in time to help Brian finish SMiLE. If I remember the story right, the elements were Grand Canyon (Earth), FreeFall (Air...supposedly sounded like something Brian Eno would do), Mrs. O'Leary's Cow (Fire), and I Love to Say Da Da (Water). And I think it was a true story....   

[Jcc]

I ordered a time machine to go back to 1967 to see exactly how Brian intended Smile to be. After plugging it in I got electracuted and passed out. Then I started dreaming that I was there with Brian, and he told me that there was only two songs on the album. Side A is a 22 1/2 miniute long Heroes and Villains, and Side B with a 22 1/2 miniute long Surf's Up. When I came to, I had a revelation. This damn time machine doesn't work at all!!

Why don't you make like a tree...and get outta here. 

[donald]

Where will we get the jillion gigawatts to run the flux capacitor?   Possibly the energy we might find in a ton of coke?

[Dove Nested Towers]

Smile would have been the BOMB if it had dropped in '67 (and not in the staged Mike
Love monologue nuclear sense). It would have blown people's minds, though some wouldn't have grokked it.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I think SMiLE would have done better than Smiley Smile but not as good as Pet Sounds, mainly due to the lack of hit singles. However, with each passing year, it would've grown in stature because it WAS ahead of its time and it was a lot to grasp/appreciate. I really believe it would've ended up very high in all polls for Top Album of all-time, and I mean up there with Pet Sounds, Revolver, Sgt. Pepper's, etc.

[Zack]

I think SMiLE would have done better than Smiley Smile but not as good as Pet Sounds, mainly due to the lack of hit singles. However, with each passing year, it would've grown in stature because it WAS ahead of its time and it was a lot to grasp/appreciate. I really believe it would've ended up very high in all polls for Top Album of all-time, and I mean up there with Pet Sounds, Revolver, Sgt. Pepper's, etc.

You don't think a March 67 release of the Cantina mix of H & V with Part 2 vocal acrobatics on the flip wouldn't have done at least as well as the July version and bumped around the top of the charts with Strawberry Fields/Penny Lane and Engelbert's Release Me?   Then maybe followed up with Vega-Tables/Wind Chimes a few months later?   

[Sheriff John Stone]

I think SMiLE would have done better than Smiley Smile but not as good as Pet Sounds, mainly due to the lack of hit singles. However, with each passing year, it would've grown in stature because it WAS ahead of its time and it was a lot to grasp/appreciate. I really believe it would've ended up very high in all polls for Top Album of all-time, and I mean up there with Pet Sounds, Revolver, Sgt. Pepper's, etc.

You don't think a March 67 release of the Cantina mix of H & V with Part 2 vocal acrobatics on the flip wouldn't have done at least as well as the July version and bumped around the top of the charts with Strawberry Fields/Penny Lane and Engelbert's Release Me?   Then maybe followed up with Vega-Tables/Wind Chimes a few months later?   

No, I don't.

While I love any version of "Heroes And Villains" (actually I love ALL of SMiLE), I think there is something about "Heroes And Villains" that turned off listeners slightly, maybe the starts and stops, maybe the la-la-la-la-la's, maybe even the lyrics. It was a Top 20 hit, but I don't know if it was ever destined to be an AM radio staple, much like the previous BB singles. It fits better as an album track, and, as I posted above, would've contributed greatly to the ALBUM'S continuing recognition.

Again, while I love "Vegetables" and "Wind Chimes", I think they would've struggled on AM radio in a similar way.

[Bicyclerider]

 I agree.  The lack of a chorus would have limited the cantina version's sucess as a single, in direct contrast to Good Vibrations.  the actual 45 chorus was too downbeat and limited it's chart success as well (I'm sounding like Mike Love here!).

I wonder if Brian had released Vegetables (the Smile, fully produced track) as a single in April 67 if it might have caught on.  You could view Vegetables as the Beach Boys' "Yellow submarine" - and that single was very successful.  Or their "Mellow Yellow," another childish ditty that did well.  I can't really see any of the other Smile songs making it as a single. 

[The Song Of The Grange]

I would like to mention that like Luther and Jcc, I am a Smile fan born in 1976!  I found an original pressing of Pet Sounds and All Summer Long in my grandma's house when I was in 8th grade and played them all the time.  In that same box I found a copy of Sgt Pepper, Abbey Road, Mama's and Papa's Deliver, Rolling Stones Aftermath, Rolling  Stones Out of Our Heads, and Jefferson Airplane Surrealistic Pillow.  That was a box of records that changed my life.

Back on topic.  I think Smile would have been a little lack luster on the charts like Pet Sounds was.  It appeared that Capitol was ready to promote the album, but I think they would have been confused by it and would have tried to undercut it like they did with Pet Sounds.  I think Smile would have been a slow burner. 

The potential influence of Smile is what is really missing from the history books.  Smile was a major artistic step forward, both in production technique, vocal arrangement, and song structure.  Along with the absence of the album from history, we also have a big whole were the influence shadow of Smile would have fallen.  Smiley Smile did not show these qualities off in such a dramatic way, and the album was so understated and eccentric that many didn't pay attention.  And thus rock music went the way it went.  But it could have been much different.  (I guess that is the mantra of a Smile fanatic--it could have been different).

[the captain]

Where will we get the jillion gigawatts to run the flux capacitor?   Possibly the energy we might find in a ton of coke?

A jillion? We only need 1.21.

[Aegir]

I wonder if Brian had released Vegetables (the Smile, fully produced track) as a single in April 67 if it might have caught on.  You could view Vegetables as the Beach Boys' "Yellow submarine" - and that single was very successful.  Or their "Mellow Yellow," another childish ditty that did well.  I can't really see any of the other Smile songs making it as a single. 

Yeah, I think when most people say that Smile would've flopped, they're not realizing how weird the hit songs of the time were. "Born high forever to fly, wind velocity nil" and "electrical banana is bound to be a sudden craze" are just as uncommercial as "over and over the crow cries uncover the cornfield".

[Dancing Bear]

I wonder if Brian had released Vegetables (the Smile, fully produced track) as a single in April 67 if it might have caught on.  You could view Vegetables as the Beach Boys' "Yellow submarine" - and that single was very successful.  Or their "Mellow Yellow," another childish ditty that did well.  I can't really see any of the other Smile songs making it as a single. 

Yeah, I think when most people say that Smile would've flopped, they're not realizing how weird the hit songs of the time were. "Born high forever to fly, wind velocity nil" and "electrical banana is bound to be a sudden craze" are just as uncommercial as "over and over the crow cries uncover the cornfield".

Yeah, but are you even starting to compare the strenght of Mellow Yellow as a hit single to anything recorded for Smile?

[Aegir]

Are you saying that Mellow Yellow is better or worse than the Smile songs?

[Dancing Bear]

I'm saying it was objectively more viable as a single in 1966.

[sockittome]

I think Smile would have been a little lack luster on the charts like Pet Sounds was.  It appeared that Capitol was ready to promote the album, but I think they would have been confused by it and would have tried to undercut it like they did with Pet Sounds.  I think Smile would have been a slow burner. 

I would have to agree with you.  When you think about how the Moody Blues' "Day of Future Passed" didn't really catch on (in the U.S. anyway) until the early '70s, it shows you how much of a weird place rock was in, in 1967.   I could see 1967 SMiLE being "discovered" and fully appreciated by around the time Pink Floyd struck with "Dark Side of the Moon".   The AOR fm stations could've had a field day!

[Mr. Cohen]

They should have just turned "Cabinessence" into a song about picking up chicks. Let Mike write the lyrics. Call it "Do You Wanna Ride My Iron Horse?", giving it Jim Morrison type of vibe (yes, I know SMiLE was done before The Doors were big).

[CosmicDancer]

A while back I read thos story about a guy named Ray Shackleford who went back in time to help Brian finish SMiLE. If I remember the story right, the elements were Grand Canyon (Earth), FreeFall (Air...supposedly sounded like something Brian Eno would do), Mrs. O'Leary's Cow (Fire), and I Love to Say Da Da (Water). And I think it was a true story....   

That is a great book!

[Bicyclerider]

I'm saying it was objectively more viable as a single in 1966.

I don't know, I think a Smile era Vegetables single would have been just as viable as Mellow Yellow as a hit single.  Objectively speaking.

[Mr. Cohen]

Thinking about it... since Brian couldn't finish Smile, the BBs should have given it to Spector to finish it like The Beatles did with Let It Be (when they couldn't get it done without Brian in '72). Now THAT would've been interesting! 

[Dove Nested Towers]

Thinking about it... since Brian couldn't finish Smile, the BBs should have given it to Spector to finish it like The Beatles did with Let It Be (when they couldn't get it done without Brian in '72). Now THAT would've been interesting! 

What a nauseating thought!