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Author Topic: Smile and its parallels to 2 other famous works and their creator  (Read 10011 times)
The Heartical Don
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« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2009, 08:12:00 AM »

I love this thread. Can someone elaborate on Erich von Stroheim's 'Greed', please?  Cool
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Roger Ryan
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« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2009, 09:43:48 AM »

I love this thread. Can someone elaborate on Erich von Stroheim's 'Greed', please?  Cool

Stroheim's original 9-hour cut of GREED has much more in common with Van Dyke Parks' DISCOVER AMERICA than SMiLE and would therefore be off-topic for this thread.  Wink
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The Heartical Don
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« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2009, 09:45:01 AM »

I love this thread. Can someone elaborate on Erich von Stroheim's 'Greed', please?  Cool

Stroheim's original 9-hour cut of GREED has much more in common with Van Dyke Parks' DISCOVER AMERICA than SMiLE and would therefore be off-topic for this thread.  Wink
Shocked -->  LOL
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MEConner
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« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2009, 12:45:06 PM »

There are enough threads out there on the Internet discussing the supposedly correct aspect ratio for TOUCH OF EVIL; lord knows we don't need another one on a Beach Boys site!

Well. Shocked

I have a suggestion...if you feel the subject is not best served on this particular forum, perhaps you may consider resisting your urges to respond in such complex and patronizing conviction especially toward a new member.

Regardless of your exposure and expertise into the work of Brian Wilson, the Beach Boys or Orson Welles, to post so definitively is naive to the experiences and research others may possibly bring to this or any online forum.  Let us not discourage new members by suggesting that any contribution is less valid.

To quote you, "bringing this back to the Beach Boys"-- How many times have the contributions of new visitors to this and the SMiLE Shop added to the general knowledge of the work of the Beach Boys and helped to restructure the paradigm of what was previously believed.

Before you offer any crass comment, I've posted this this forum on seven occasions. I'd invite you to click my membership link. I have been a member since February of 2006. (one month after yourself, for I continued to linger at John Lane and John Hunt's SMiLE Shop an extra month)  I visit several times a week and enjoy reading the information contained everyone's posts so much more than reading what little tidbits I may be able to offer.  I believe that everyone who takes the time to contribute offers something to my appreciation and long passion of the work of Brian Douglas Wilson and the Beach Boys. 

Perhaps this thread may invite others to explore, research and discuss the life and work of Orson Welles.  Timothy White, Domenic Priore and David Leaf published beautiful books offering metaphors between the work of the Beach Boys and a multitude art forms. To that end, any contribution to this or any discussion inspired by the works of art is worthy.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 01:00:02 PM by steeler1.0 » Logged
comfortably-gone
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« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2009, 01:32:52 PM »

I had no idea this was a Beach Boys forum.  I was googling around on Welles and Touch Of Evil, the second page of this thread came up.
You guys were dicussing my favorite topic, so I joined.  I didn't mean to ruffle any one's feathers.

And to the moderators of this site, that code that you have to enter to join, almost kept me from joining.  The code is impossible to read.  After all the effort to join and talk about TOUCH OF EVIL, i find out it's a Beach Boys site.  I have nothing to contribute about the Beach Boys except 40 years after hearing one of their songs, My 409, i'm still listening to them.

Mr. Ryan:
Besides me being irrate about the letter boxing of TOUCH OF EVIL, I've only read one critic complain about it.  I'm sure I could learn something about googling from you.

 

.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 01:37:13 PM by comfortably-gone » Logged
Dove Nested Towers
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« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2009, 01:54:36 PM »

I had no idea this was a Beach Boys forum.  I was googling around on Welles and Touch Of Evil, the second page of this thread came up.
You guys were dicussing my favorite topic, so I joined.  I didn't mean to ruffle any one's feathers.

And to the moderators of this site, that code that you have to enter to join, almost kept me from joining.  The code is impossible to read.  After all the effort to join and talk about TOUCH OF EVIL, i find out it's a Beach Boys site.  I have nothing to contribute about the Beach Boys except 40 years after hearing one of their songs, My 409, i'm still listening to them.

Mr. Ryan:
Besides me being irrate about the letter boxing of TOUCH OF EVIL, I've only read one critic complain about it.  I'm sure I could learn something about googling from you.

 

.

Ah, the irony... Smiley
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The Heartical Don
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« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2009, 12:05:15 AM »

Let me add my humble and proverbial two cents to this eminently lucid and delightful discussion, that would grace the pages of the esteemed New Yorker. Had Eustace Tilley been a contemporary of ours, he would be a member of this site too.

What, if I may ask, do the ladies and gents here think of Jean Cocteau's Orphee?

I thank you in advance.
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Roger Ryan
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« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2009, 07:57:51 AM »

My apologies if my tone was taken as patronizing for that certainly wasn't my intent. I am sincerely interested in what both "steeler1.0" and "comfortably-gone" have contributed to this thread and, since I love talking about Orson Welles as much as Brian Wilson, I appreciate "mutedtrumpeterswan" starting off this topic.

In retrospect, I do realize that my reference to the aspect ratio of TOUCH OF EVIL probably came off as dismissive. For Welles fans, bringing up the aspect ratio of this film is akin to starting a fresh thread on whether Mike Love is to blame for the non-appearance of the original SMiLE album! I meant the statement to be a humorous aside, but without using the appropriate "emoticon" symbol, I can see now that my intended tone didn't come through.

"comfortably-gone" - you have not ruffled any of my feathers. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I think your statement regarding Welles often changing his mind in the cutting room is quite valid; thank you for bringing that to the discussion. I was surprised that your first post would be on a subject that would be considered "off-topic" for this Beach Boys board, but now realize that you came to this board via the Orson Welles connection - welcome! I hope you check out some Beach Boys - related recordings like the PET SOUNDS album and Brian Wilson's 2004 attempt to finish the abandoned 1966/67 SMiLE project (entitled BRIAN WILSON PRESENTS SMILE). As most everyone here will agree, there is a lot of great Beach Boys music beyond the early "409" days.

As to that pesky TOUCH OF EVIL aspect ratio, I'm of the opinion that Welles and DP Russell Metty framed the film to work in both 1.85 to 1 (widescreen) for theatrical release and 1.33 to 1 (standard academy ratio) for eventual television showings. I'm happy with the '98 reconstruction being cropped for widescreen, but would be happier if a full-frame version had been included in the most recent DVD set as well. Below are links to two intensive threads concerning this topic from "Wellesnet.com" (the site for fans of Welles) and the Criterion Collection site forum (a superb site for fans of movies in general). Please note that Rick Schmidlin, the producer of the '98 EVIL reconstruction, contributes his opinion to both threads.


http://wellesnet.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1517

http://www.criterionforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4223
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The Heartical Don
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« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2009, 08:22:55 AM »

...and I have to thank the esteemed Roger Ryan (who probably goes by the name of Roger Ebert in real life) for providing those two invaluable links. There is quite an amusing reciprocal cross-over going on as we speak, betwixt the Wilson community and the Welles brotherhood.

Let's hear it for kulcher, um, I mean: culture!
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Dove Nested Towers
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« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2009, 01:16:16 PM »

Let me add my humble and proverbial two cents to this eminently lucid and delightful discussion, that would grace the pages of the esteemed New Yorker. Had Eustace Tilley been a contemporary of ours, he would be a member of this site too.

What, if I may ask, do the ladies and gents here think of Jean Cocteau's Orphee?

I thank you in advance.

I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today! -J. Wellington Wimpy.

Your thanks are duly logged and noted. In my opinion, and I am unanimous in this (- Mollie Sugden, Mrs. Slocum in Are You Being Served, who recently passed--R.I.P.), Cocteau was a
pretentious, incoherent egotist with delusions of grandeur! Wink (Actually, one of my very favorites. The redoubtable Mr. Tilley would no doubt concur).

Thanks for the entertaining and informative contributions, everyone. Cool
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comfortably-gone
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« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2009, 02:53:18 PM »

BEACH BOYS:
A friend turned me on to SMILE about 3 or 4 years ago.  At first I didn't know what to think about it but after a few listens it grew on me.  I heard Wilson started a tour using no new gear.  Everything sounded like it used to.  This is pretty innovative and certainly pleasing to his fans. 

R. RYAN:
No harm done.  Just a misunderstanding.  No big deal.

WELLESNET:
I never go to the Message Board.  It's not Welles discussion, it's Welles bashing and petty arguments.  The few times I visited, was a waste of time, except for a few good links I found there to Welles stuff.

COCTEAU:
Whatever he is, there is no doubt about his brilliance as a director and I'll give you my favorite example.  When Cocteau directed BEAUTY AND THE BEAST, he had nothing.  A tiny budget and cardboard sets.  He lit the cardboard sets so brilliantly that the cardboard looked like real stone and real trees.  When James Cameron directed TITANIC, he had a huge budget, everything was real, but it all looked like it was filmed on cardboard sets.     
 
« Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 03:04:54 PM by comfortably-gone » Logged
ontor pertawst
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« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2013, 09:16:18 AM »

I've been thinking about the parallels between these crazy overindulgent genius types for the past few weeks while working on a deranged new filmfuckery project called ORSON WELLES VS HOLLYWOOD ( part 1 just up at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brc_T5UmhU0 ) when I stuck his name in the search engine and this wonderful thread came up. Typical Smiley Smile, getting there years before! Really enjoyed digging through these posts, everybody...

Now... when will Callow put out part three of his bio? The 60s-70s unfinished masterpiece years fascinate me most.

GEE I WONDER WHY.

Sad to see the Ebert reference... weird to think of a world without the man in it. There's a terrific tribute planned for the Saban next week: https://vimeo.com/68526740
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 12:21:37 AM by ontor pertawst » Logged
TMinthePM
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« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2013, 10:00:03 AM »

If Brian Wilson is the Orson Welles of Rock n Roll, is Mike Love the Eddie Haskell?
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ontor pertawst
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« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2013, 10:02:52 AM »

Mike Love is the Mike Love of rock n roll.

« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 12:18:38 AM by ontor pertawst » Logged
Iron Horse-Apples
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« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2013, 11:20:58 AM »

Mike Love is the Mike Love of rock n roll.

Perfect.
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puni puni
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« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2013, 03:10:41 AM »

Brian Wilson was compared to Orson Welles as early as... 1966


I found this clipping somewhere a while. Does anyone have a proper source
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Moon Dawg
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« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2013, 04:38:07 AM »

If Brian Wilson is the Orson Welles of Rock n Roll, is Mike Love the Eddie Haskell?

  Dave Marsh said as much in a piece he wrote around the time of the James Watt affair. ("Shut Down Vol 3") It was reprinted in FORTUNATE SON: The Best of Dave Marsh.
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leggo of my ego
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« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2013, 09:43:26 AM »

curious thread.
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ontor pertawst
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« Reply #43 on: July 01, 2013, 10:24:29 AM »

Hey, be thankful I didn't start that one comparing Brian Wilson to God Emperor of Dune.
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