The Breaking Point In Their Career?

[the captain]

I just don't understand it. If they had kept on making "good" music instead of "4-chord imitations of songs Brian would've written for Beach Boys in 1964" music, they'd probably all have a lot more money by now, because their albums would've actually sold.

It's hard to say that. Well, not necessarily--it might have been easy for you to say it. But it's hard to know that, because dedicating oneself to "good" music probably means taking a certain number of risks. And risks often don't pay off. Does the Beach Boys' previous record of succeeding artistically mean their risks were more likely to pay off with what would be considered by history to be good or salable? Didn't happen, so who knows. Frankly, even those albums that are considered artistic triumphs by BBs fans now--Friends, Sunflower, Love You--aren't exactly tearing up Billboard.

Occasionally I think it barely mattered what they would have done: their time was up, or at least running out. One guy does one thing that pleases someone; the band puts out something that kind of appeals to someone else; and meanwhile the live shows continue to draw because they include the tried and true hits. That just might be not only how it was, but how it was going to have to be.

[The Heartical Don]

A little thought experiment, with a few a priori assumptions:

1. The Beatles realized at a certain point (Let It Be) that it was over. Personal issues aside: they probably thought that their creative peak was behind them, disbanded, and went their separate ways. The perfect career, in other ways.

2. The Beach Boys were more glued together, because of the family ties. Perhaps the various members were not as self-assured as John, Paul, George and Ringo. I find it hard to name a single member around 1970 that would've thought: I can make it on my own.

OK, now this:

3. If point (2) had been less powerful, and the band had stopped being a group completely just after Surf's Up, what would our current perspective be?
I for one could imagine that biographies today would say the same as I wrote under point (1): the perfect career. Not overlong, ending with a mighty fine album, finishing with three true swan songs: A Day In The Life Of A Tree, 'Til I Die, and, most majestically: Surf's Up. What's more, this perfect career also included the most famous unreleased album of all time.

Any takers?

[carl r]

Yep, count me in to that ... in the knowledge that the Beatles did some great solo/collaborative albums at the start of the 70s, JL's "Imagine" featuring 3 of them, for example.

In this scenario I can imagine Brian popping up every now and then (no Landy, no Love You, but less hassles, and a quieter life),  Carl and Dennis forming a new band based on the live act. And who knows how long that would have lasted? Not sure about Mike and Al

[DonnyL]

in terms of live shows, the transition happened some time in 1974.  this is when you can see the focus shift from "a few oldies here and there" to the oldies being the main focus.

regarding their LPs, I think they were trying through 1980 or so.  Keepin' the Summer Alive was by no means an artistic triumph, but it was not exactly an oldies-style album either.  the 1985 album was an attempt at modern pop but by this time i think it was too late.

[Pretty Funky]

No doubt in a album perspective the band would have been held in a very high regard had they split up after 'Surfs Up'.
But with families to feed, bills to pay etc they had to dumb it down and milk it by touring.

I think the band may have done quite well mid 80s - mid 90s touring as a reunion act had they split about 72.

Could they have made as much for say a 2 year reunion tour as 10 years of every summer touring. Who nows?

[sockittome]

I think the band may have done quite well mid 80s - mid 90s touring as a reunion act had they split about 72.

And just think of what each of them could have accomplished on their own in that period of time between '72-'80-whatever.  Dennis would've had a thriving solo career with a string of hit albums (Carl probably would've, too).  In the "perfect world" scenario, I'm sure Brian would have collaborated with some big names, maybe produce some tracks or albums for other artists (in addition to his own solo albums).  There would have been more of some of "the Boys" taking part in backing up singers and groups (ala "Wishing You Were Here" and "Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me").  Perhaps Mike would've carried the torch by assembling a Beach Boys tribute band and doing the oldies thing himself. 

[Outie 315]

 Are you kiddin' me ?
 They wrote the book on touring!
 20% Studio & 80% Live!!!!!

[Pretty Funky]

I think the Stones did!

New Album every 3-7 years.
Tour.
Live album of tour.
Live video-DVD of tour.

Sex, drugs and general debauchery in between.

[sockittome]

I think the Stones did!

New Album every 3-7 years.
Tour.
Live album of tour.
Live video-DVD of tour.

Sex, drugs and general debauchery in between.

You just described every band since the '90s.  Why put out an album every year or two when you can milk it for half a decade?

[the captain]

You just described every band since the '90s.  Why put out an album every year or two when you can milk it for half a decade?

Well, every old or major-label band, maybe. Plenty of very good bands still put out about an album a year while maintaining a basically never-ending tour schedule. The Fiery Furnaces are about to release their 8th album since 2003, and that's only if you don't include songwriter Matthew Friedberger's two solo albums from a couple years ago. And each of those albums is about 75 minutes of dense, complex music (think Zappa)--not tossed off blues jams. Even the one live album is an ambitious studio project, considering the unbelievable amount of editing that went into it. Of Montreal never stops touring, and has done 11 albums since 1997, not counting its own remix projects, EPs and covers projects. Not every band is pathetic, old and fat (metaphorically).

[Dave in KC]

Luther, the groups you mentioned, including Zappa, along with the dozens more you could probaly come up with, never would be in a position to fill up stadiums. Or have their hits played on the radio so many years henceforth. To compare the careers of these much lesser known acts to that of The Beach Boys requires more than just a big stretch.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I don't think the Beach Boys embraced the all oldies act right after Endless Summer. If you watch them live in Australia, 1977, they only did one or two oldies. Mostly 70s tunes.

I think the perfect time for the BBs to brake up would've been after Holland.

Mike-leader of a BBs tribute band (include Ricky Henn/Dean Torrence/Dave Marks)
Al - folk music/solo, collaborator or just join Mike
Carl - producer and solo artist
Dennis - solo artist
Brian - whatever he wants to do

[the captain]

Luther, the groups you mentioned, including Zappa, along with the dozens more you could probaly come up with, never would be in a position to fill up stadiums. Or have their hits played on the radio so many years henceforth. To compare the careers of these much lesser known acts to that of The Beach Boys requires more than just a big stretch.

If I had mentioned selling out stadiums or having hits on the radio, this post might have been relevant to something I said.

[urbanite]

I'll never understand how they went from producing a beautiful album like Surf's Up with the masterful Feel Flows to 15 Big Ones, which was generally awful.     

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I'll never understand how they went from producing a beautiful album like Surf's Up with the masterful Feel Flows to 15 Big Ones, which was generally awful.    

It took three years of doing nothing after Holland.

[Jay]

I think that the creative turning point came in 1974 at Carabou when they faild to come up with an album. It wasn't the first time. They failed to turn Smile into an album. But this time it was different. This time, they didin't have a bunch of great songs to make a "filler album"(20/20, anyone?). The day that they released 15Big Ones, they turned into a sad parody of themselves.

[Outie 315]

 In the 80's a deal with Virgin fell thru also.....

[Andrew G. Doe]

In the 80's a deal with Virgin fell thru also.....

Mid-90s. Brian's 'people' decided it would be better for him to do a solo album. Thus instead of the V2 album, which would have included "Soul Searchin'" and "You're Still A Mystery", we got... Imagination.

[The Heartical Don]

In the 80's a deal with Virgin fell thru also.....

Mid-90s. Brian's 'people' decided it would be better for him to do a solo album. Thus instead of the V2 album, which would have included "Soul Searchin'" and "You're Still A Mystery", we got... Imagination.

Was that when Sean O'Hagan was in the picture for a brief time?

[Outie 315]

 
  The breaking point was Oh Danny Boy!:
   
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGmNyPfmClw

[Andrew G. Doe]

In the 80's a deal with Virgin fell thru also.....

Mid-90s. Brian's 'people' decided it would be better for him to do a solo album. Thus instead of the V2 album, which would have included "Soul Searchin'" and "You're Still A Mystery", we got... Imagination.

Was that when Sean O'Hagan was in the picture for a brief time?

Yeah... reading the Uncut article, about as long as it took Brian to eat a bowl of ice cream. 

[The Heartical Don]

In the 80's a deal with Virgin fell thru also.....

Mid-90s. Brian's 'people' decided it would be better for him to do a solo album. Thus instead of the V2 album, which would have included "Soul Searchin'" and "You're Still A Mystery", we got... Imagination.

Was that when Sean O'Hagan was in the picture for a brief time?

Yeah... reading the Uncut article, about as long as it took Brian to eat a bowl of ice cream. 

 

[TdHabib]

OKAY IF EVERYONE would please look at the very random Danny Boy clip Outie posted seriously for a second, look at around 1:10 on. Can someone please tell me what concert this was filmed at and what Brian was performing standing up? I've wanted to know for ages.

[DonnaK]

That video was very sad....especially when Mike teared up....seriously. I may not care for Mike, but that part really got me.

[Jason]

Oh yeah, Michael is just a money-hungry jerkoff trading on Brian's fame and stature in rock 'n roll. 

I think anyone who has the nerve to say that Michael doesn't care about Brian, wants nothing to do with Brian, whatever, after seeing this YouTube clip Outie linked to is quite clearly certifiable. I mean belonging in a straightjacket in a padded room certifiable.