The Beach Boys Love You

[Sheriff John Stone]

I have said it before and I will say it again -- Smiley SMile and Love You must be seen as two sides of the same coin.  They both are pretty much unfiltered Brian Wilson making music for himself.  The pre-Pet Sounds music was Brian being commercial, or doing songs that were a blend of his *musical* vision mixed with the words of others.  PS is Brian with a professional writer speaking for him in more generally accepted terms.  But Smiley Smile is the Brian that started to be seen in hints in "Guess I'm Dumb" -- the insecure goofy person who loves birthday cake, who when meeting the Queen of England says "Hi, Queen".  In other words, the Brian we all know and mostly love.  Both Smiley and Love You had Brian doing most of the instruments and writing most of the lyrics (I think -- I question how much of the Mike Love credits were really him, especially She's Going Bald).  I find that most people who love one love the other and vice versa.  But they certainly are as raw and exposed in their own way as the more celebrated Plastic Ono Band -- and I would argue that they are better than that album.  To appreciate POB you must know John's history (how else could "God" have any meaning?), but Smiley and Love You are self-contained.

I agree with 95% of your post. The only part I question (just a little) is the aspect of Brian "making music for himself". While there's no doubt LOVE YOU is almost a BW solo album, and he was reflecting his unfiltered thoughts and feelings, I was always curious about "Let Us Go On This Way", "Honkin' Down The Highway", and kind of "Roller Skating Child". To me, I always got the impression that Brian was considering that this was a Beach Boys' album, and he might be thinking, "I guess I better throw a couple of BB-sounding songs in there". I don't think he totally forgot the band's image; it was still fairly close to the Endless Summer/Spirit of America releases. And wasn't "Honkin'" and "Roller Skating Child" released as singles? I think Brian was still thinking about producing hits FOR THE BOYS, and himself of course...

[Jeff Mason]

Well, Mike DID co-write Let Us Go On This Way.  So you may be hearing that?  And Honking -- come on, who else would write "Honkin Down the Gosh Darn Highway" and have it taken seriously?  Or "Well, oh my, oh gosh oh gee"?  Could you believe it from Pete Townshend?  Maybe in 1965 possibly, but by Quad it would have been so self-conscious.  But when Brian does it, it feels real and right.  And there is no other Brian track like "I'll Bet He's Nice" and I would love to hear the demo that AGD references in his books (he states that you can almost see the BB's jaws drop over the lyrics).

[the captain]

I'll Bet He's Nice is honestly among my 15-20 favorite Beach Boys songs ever. I am not being sarcastic or ironic in this post at all (including this sentence, which I realize could be taken that way).

[I. Spaceman]

Well, Mike DID co-write Let Us Go On This Way.  So you may be hearing that?  And Honking -- come on, who else would write "Honkin Down the Gosh Darn Highway" and have it taken seriously?  Or "Well, oh my, oh gosh oh gee"?  Could you believe it from Pete Townshend?  Maybe in 1965 possibly, but by Quad it would have been so self-conscious.  But when Brian does it, it feels real and right.  And there is no other Brian track like "I'll Bet He's Nice" and I would love to hear the demo that AGD references in his books (he states that you can almost see the BB's jaws drop over the lyrics).

You haven't heard that demo?
I'm sending it now!

[Jeff Mason]

PM me where to look... 

[Jason]

Well I guess we all agree to disagree.

[Chris D.]

Based on what I've read and heard from various sources, Brian Wilson, after 1967, was intentionally trying to ruin the Beach Boys. He felt betrayed and beaten down by the whole Smile experience and was obviously hellbent on revenge, in removing himself as the group's producer since he knew none of them would be up to the challenge and releasing the very stripped-down Smiley Smile and Wild Honey as the group's first two albums after the Smile fiasco. I think Brian was intentionally trying to ruin the group's sound (not to mention credibility with Smiley Smile, which a lot of people still to this day do not understand). When he did participate, it was in a lazy manner. I believe the "misplaced" master for Do It Again can lay claim to having some kind of Brian Wilson involvement.

"Hellbent on revenge"  And the best he could do was 15 Big Ones???  Don't get me wrong, it's a nasty piece of work, but...huh?  And what do you have to support Brian misplacing that master tape?

[I. Spaceman]

Brian Wilson, HELLBENT ON REVENGE!!!!!!!

A birthday cake in one hand, a farting synth in the other.

This time, it's foda PERSONAL!

[Chris D.]

All in the name of Ol' Pet Sounds.  Tonight on FX, Paul Verhoeven's Brian's Back, starring Jeff Bridges and Dulph Lundgren.

[Jeff Mason]

Steve Desper settled the Do It Again story once and for all.  He and Carl worked for days making a stereo master of the song, which featured the echo and delay on the snare added during the mixdown process (i.e. it's not on the multitracks).  It apparently was as good a recording in stereo as the Sunflower recordings.  But while driving from Carl's house to the Capitol offices with the top off the convertible, the tape disappeared, likely having flown out of the car.  They raced home and due to a time crunch did the best that they could do -- grab a mono safety copy of the stereo mix and submit it instead.  And since the most important effect is missing on the multitracks, and since the machine used to make it is gone, no stereo remix can now be done -- the SOT 20 is the best we can get.

Notice that Brian Wilson's name is not mentioned once above.  He had no interaction in this story.  So it can't have been a revenge on his part.  Have you read any of Peter Reum's posts about Brian?  I would be interested to hear how you make your theories consistent with his professional opinions of what happened (based upon his training and interaction with all of the particulars).

[Jason]

Notice that Brian Wilson's name is not mentioned once above.  He had no interaction in this story.  So it can't have been a revenge on his part.  Have you read any of Peter Reum's posts about Brian?  I would be interested to hear how you make your theories consistent with his professional opinions of what happened (based upon his training and interaction with all of the particulars).

Jeff, I have read Peter's posts about Brian. Chatted with him online about Brian too. Unless I read his comments incorrectly, his story doesn't jive with Mr. Desper's. If I have misspoken and Peter sees my posting then yes, I will retract all my statements and apologize for wasting everyone's time.

[Jeff Mason]

I know that Peter has posted extensively about Brian being crushed and hurt and having his breakdowns.  But I don't recall him posting about deliberate artistic sabotage.  IMO that would cheapen Smiley as it would cease to be something that Brian crafted from love for himself and become a spiteful, hateful piece of anger (to use an analogy that Ian would hold dear, it would be like Woody Allen's late work after he became spiteful and let it bleed into his work) that I would not be able to listen easily to without thinking of the feelings that went into it.  I have to think that at some level Brian knew how great Smiley was.  If it was just a big way of saying F you, then it becomes pretty shallow.

I certainly hope that Brian didn't *deliberately* choose to strike with his music.  Some of my least favorite music by the (ex) Beatles is the stuff where they were taking pot shots at each other because of the vile in them.  Though somehow Too Many People still works great, natch.

[Jason]

I know that Peter has posted extensively about Brian being crushed and hurt and having his breakdowns.  But I don't recall him posting about deliberate artistic sabotage.  IMO that would cheapen Smiley as it would cease to be something that Brian crafted from love for himself and become a spiteful, hateful piece of anger (to use an analogy that Ian would hold dear, it would be like Woody Allen's late work after he became spiteful and let it bleed into his work) that I would not be able to listen easily to without thinking of the feelings that went into it.  I have to think that at some level Brian knew how great Smiley was.  If it was just a big way of saying F you, then it becomes pretty shallow.

I certainly hope that Brian didn't *deliberately* choose to strike with his music.  Some of my least favorite music by the (ex) Beatles is the stuff where they were taking pot shots at each other because of the vile in them.  Though somehow Too Many People still works great, natch.

Well....in the end the only person with any real authority on this is most likely Brian himself and I don't exactly see him talking about this situation ever. Of course, we'd all love to have the record set straight. Until that day comes, and it most likely never will, all we have is speculation. That's all my posts were at their core. If they were wrong, hey, it's not the first time.

[I. Spaceman]

Hmmm, Jeff, I think there's a lot of anger in SMiLEY, and a lot of sabotage as well, but I don't think that makes it any less crafted or beautiful.
I mean, DYlan's Blood On The Tracks is almost deliriously spiteful, and that's gorgeous. I definitely believe, at least on a subconscious level, that Brian went even stranger and weirder than SMiLE in a passive-aggressive fashion, letting the tracks go unadorned, unfixed and unsane to prove some point to the band and public.
Which, to me, is a more honest staement than SMiLE would have been.

[Jeff Mason]

You see, sabotage would have been easy.  Just ask Van Morrison, perpetrator of the biggest sabotage job of music history.  Or the Stones with their last Decca single (just TRY to release THAT one).  I won't even mention Lou Reed as some people around here actually like that one.  If Smiley were just about getting even, if Brian didn't have something interesting to say, then it becomes more difficult to listen without detaching from the BB story, just like listening to those songs of spite from the Beatles pulls you into that muck.  I suppose that there is some artistic merit in airing your dirty laundry, but it is so hard for me to listen with pleasure to such music.

See, I draw a strong connection to Love You and say that we are seeing Brian in his pure uncommercial natural goofy self here, the guy who thinks it cool to sing songs about vegetables while using obvious sound effects, or a strange number about a woman losing her hair and the aftermath.  I could see the claustrophobic sound as a subconscious reaction to the strangeness going on in their lives, but I would be dismayed to see it as a deliberate attempt to ruin the BB career.  If that were the goal, there was no need to work so hard to make so good an album.

Maybe I think too much.  (Paul Simon 1982)

[Chris D.]

I will retract all my statements and apologize for wasting everyone's time.

In-depth discussion is never a waste of time.

[the captain]

In-depth discussion is never a waste of time.

What about hanging around message boards all the fvcking time?

[Chris D.]

Those people are a bvncha cvnts.

[monkee knutz]

Ah, more Latin.

[Jason]

What about hanging around message boards all the fvcking time?

BURN!

[Daniel S.]

In the case of Smiley Smile, I've always believed that if it were just a case of Brian not caring then he would have just cobbled together some of the already finished SMiLE songs and called it a day. But he DID care enough to record a new album. So whatever he was feeling, those feelings helped make the beautiful record we know as Smiley Smile. On the SOT 18 they sound like they knew what they were doing. There is a lot of anger in Smiley Smile but also enough moments of greatness where you can't deny that Brian put some of his heart into it.


p.s. this seems out of place, but I'm responding to discussion on page 6

[I. Spaceman]

In the case of Smiley Smile, I've always believed that if it were just a case of Brian not caring then he would have just cobbled together some of the already finished SMiLE songs and called it a day. But he DID care enough to record a new album. So whatever he was feeling, those feelings helped make the beautiful record we know as Smiley Smile. On the SOT 18 they sound like they knew what they were doing. There is a lot of anger in Smiley Smile but also enough moments of greatness where you can't deny that Brian put some of his heart into it.


p.s. this seems out of place, but I'm responding to discussion on page 6

Exactly, Mike. Great post.

[jazzfascist]

Probably the best BB album from the seventies. It came out in 1977 same year as Sex Pistols and Talking Heads first records and IMO the whole naive approach to the songwriting and the ”in your face” sound with the brash bass synth and Brian and Dennis’s shot voices makes it a pretty punky or ”new wavey” album, probably without them wanting it, seems like a case of synchronicity. Maybe you could also call it Brian's dada album.
Anyway, great album with some charmingly naive songs and I like the ”lego brick” sound of the production way better than the boring MOR type of production, that followed on the rest of their seventies albums.
Favourite songs are ” Let Us Go On this Way”,”Mona”, ”Johnny Carson” ,”The Night Was So Young”, "Let's Put Our Hearts Together", ”Airplane”.

Søren

[Glenn Greenberg]

I gave this a 2.

Has some interesting and catchy moments, but it makes me very sad to listen to this album, to hear what Brian had become in the years since PET SOUNDS.

Considering the craftsmanship of their 60s albums, and their early-70s works like SUNFLOWER and SURF'S UP--the wonderful performances on those albums, the quality sound--I still cannot fathom how all five members agreed that LOVE YOU was ready for release.

Same goes for 15 BIG ONES.

[no]

A five star affair that WILL get it's due one day.

I really do wish 'It's Over Now' could've been included, though. Brian's demo is one of my favorite recordings.