Something That's Always Puzzled Me...

[DennisWilsonIsMyHero]

If Mike Love had such a problem with the SMiLE album, how on earth could he have been comfortable releasing Smiley Smile in it's place? We are all familiar with story of him questioning the meaning of the Cabinessence lyrics. Wouldn't he be equally as concerned releasing an album full of song fragments? (Side note: I think the album is great and consider it among their best.)

I guess that's what makes the whole SMiLE period that much more interesting to me. It appears they were close to releasing what potentially could have been they're greatest musical accomplishment and they scrapped the whole thing and released an album full of 90 second fragments and rough takes. What was Mike Love's take on Smiley Smile vs SMiLE??

[A Million Units In Jan!]

Mike, more than anyone, realised that they had to release something. This was in the era when bands released albums or singles every few months. It had been over half a year since they had release GV, and they had already wasted thousands and thousands of dollars recrording the SMiLE tracks.  They were pretty much up against the wall.

 And you know, in a way SS coming out almost reinforces the idea in my mind that Mike didn't have as much control over what was released as everyone thinks. I think Brian made the decision to release SS on his own-whether the other guys wanted it released or not. Almost like SMiLE would have been. If Brian really wanted SMiLE to come out, it would have. For numerous reasons ( the other guys were confused by the music, Brian  slowly starting to go over the edge, ran out of time, etc. ) Brian canned the lush tracks and decided on stripped down tracks with a touch of bland humor. SS is as much a Brian project as SMiLE was, I think.  Just not as intricate and beautiful.

[Sheriff John Stone]

The only line - JUST ONE LINE - that I ever heard CONFIRMED BY Van Dyke Parks (if you can believe him ) - that Mike objected to was "over and over the crow cries uncover the cornfield". And he was asking more for an explanation than protesting, according to Mike (if you can believe HIM).

I sometimes think Mike's bigger beef was the fact that we was replaced as lyricist for the second consecutive album, and he had a hard time dealing with it. I know I would've.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Oh to be a fly on the wall of the Capitol boardroom when the top brass heard Smiley Smile for the first time... 

That they released it indicates to me that they were as desperate as the band to get something, anything, out.

[The Heartical Don]

The only line - JUST ONE LINE - that I ever heard CONFIRMED BY Van Dyke Parks (if you can believe him ) - that Mike objected to was "over and over the crow cries uncover the cornfield". And he was asking more for an explanation than protesting, according to Mike (if you can believe HIM).

I sometimes think Mike's bigger beef was the fact that we was replaced as lyricist for the second consecutive album, and he had a hard time dealing with it. I know I would've.

Very insightful. Having been part of the most successful songwriting partnership in the U.S.A. from 1962-1966 and then being replaced by a journalist followed by a poetic intellectual who loved hermetic stuff... that must have hurt a lot.

What did not help either is Mike's peculiar brand of 'humor'. Perhaps he really was misunderstood a lot of the time. You know the type of guy: jokes always misfiring, but unable to fit better in his group in this respect. Could it be that his later obsession with court cases was some psychological way to 'impress', 'make a mark', to do away with the feeling of being not acknowledged enough?

[The Shift]

Aye, all that, plus the fact that although Mike might have objected to the line "Over and over etc..." he did sing his parts in the song. And well, far better than he'd sung all that nasal surfin' and hot rod stuff in the preceding years!

We often get mixed up with "not liking" and "scrapping". Mike might not have liked SMiLE but it was Brian who scrapped it.

[The Heartical Don]

Aye, all that, plus the fact that although Mike might have objected to the line "Over and over etc..." he did sing his parts in the song. And well, far better than he'd sung all that nasal surfin' and hot rod stuff in the preceding years!

We often get mixed up with "not liking" and "scrapping". Mike might not have liked SMiLE but it was Brian who scrapped it.

Good that. Perhaps Mike being 'out of the core team' hit him much harder than his probable fears that SMiLE might decrease financial gains. A bruise on one's ego usually hurts deeper and lasts longer than a (potential) loss of money. Is there any comment by Mike on the route that rock took in 1967? I mean: did he ever say: we'll stick with our usual hit fare, or did he say: we're happy to take the adventurous way and take rock to a higher plane? When exactly did he say: don't f*ck with the formula?

[Zack]

Not only was Mike sidelined as lyricist, but lead singer as well!  Maybe his beef with the "over and over" line was the fact that it was the only one he got to sing on the whole album?

My personal observation was that if Mike was allowed to sing Heroes and Villains, Smile would have gone forward.  And why not?  He would have done a fine job I think.  Picture it.

[Rocker]

Not only was Mike sidelined as lyricist, but lead singer as well!  Maybe his beef with the "over and over" line was the fact that it was the only one he got to sing on the whole album?

My personal observation was that if Mike was allowed to sing Heroes and Villains, Smile would have gone forward.  And why not?  He would have done a fine job I think.  Picture it.

Of course there was still some stuff not finished, so he might've sung on there. I'm pretty sure Brian would have wanted to use Mike's voice on other songs. I think "Barnyard" for example would be cool for Mike to sing.
Plus he sang part of the "Marguerita"-part of H&V .

[Sheriff John Stone]

The only line - JUST ONE LINE - that I ever heard CONFIRMED BY Van Dyke Parks (if you can believe him ) - that Mike objected to was "over and over the crow cries uncover the cornfield". And he was asking more for an explanation than protesting, according to Mike (if you can believe HIM).

I sometimes think Mike's bigger beef was the fact that we was replaced as lyricist for the second consecutive album, and he had a hard time dealing with it. I know I would've.

Very insightful. Having been part of the most successful songwriting partnership in the U.S.A. from 1962-1966 and then being replaced by a journalist followed by a poetic intellectual who loved hermetic stuff... that must have hurt a lot.

Hurt a lot and maybe even confused....Before I make my point, I'll state that Brian Wilson earned the right to choose any lyrist/collaborator he wants. But....

Think about how Mike Love felt, and put yourself in his position. Mike was the main lyricist for the Surfin' Safari, Surfin' USA, and Surfer Girl albums, each album being more commercially and critically successful than its predecessor. So, for the next album, Brian chooses Roger Christian as his lyricist/collaborator. I would imagine that Mike wasn't too pleased with that decision. But, Mike comes back as lyricist/collaborator on the following four albums with songs like "Fun, Fun, Fun", "The Warmth Of The Sun", "All Summer Long", "I Get Around", "Good To My Baby", "Please Let Me Wonder", "Help Me R(h)onda", "California Girls", and others. Not too shabby. And, again, Brian chooses to replace him as lyricist for the next album. Now, Mike has to be feeling not only hurt, but confused. They were on quite a roll; Brian had guts, or something. Now, Pet Sounds is passed, Tony Asher is gone, and Mike is once again contributing lyrics - and maybe the riff "I'm picking up good vibrations" - for a record that is arguably the greatest single of all-time. So, Mike, you think you're "back in the fold". Nope. A guy by the name of Van Dyke Parks is the next/new lyricist.

You get the picture. I won't get into the successful Wild Honey album, or "Do It Again", or Mike's collaboration with Dennis Wilson on "Sound Of Free", "Only With You", and "Pacific Ocean Blues". Or "All I Wanna Do" or "Big Sur". You wanna mention Summer In Paradise, go ahead; it's a minor footnote.

DennisWilsonIsMyHero, you titled this thread "Something That's Always Puzzled Me". When Mike Love sees lyricists and collaborators like Eugene Landy (and his girlfriend), Joe Thomas, Jimmy Buffett, Steve Kalinich, Scott Bennett, and many others coming and going, he's probably saying/asking the same thing as you.

[The Heartical Don]

The only line - JUST ONE LINE - that I ever heard CONFIRMED BY Van Dyke Parks (if you can believe him ) - that Mike objected to was "over and over the crow cries uncover the cornfield". And he was asking more for an explanation than protesting, according to Mike (if you can believe HIM).

I sometimes think Mike's bigger beef was the fact that we was replaced as lyricist for the second consecutive album, and he had a hard time dealing with it. I know I would've.

Very insightful. Having been part of the most successful songwriting partnership in the U.S.A. from 1962-1966 and then being replaced by a journalist followed by a poetic intellectual who loved hermetic stuff... that must have hurt a lot.

Hurt a lot and maybe even confused....Before I make my point, I'll state that Brian Wilson earned the right to choose any lyrist/collaborator he wants. But....

Think about how Mike Love felt, and put yourself in his position. Mike was the main lyricist for the Surfin' Safari, Surfin' USA, and Surfer Girl albums, each album being more commercially and critically successful than its predecessor. So, for the next album, Brian chooses Roger Christian as his lyricist/collaborator. I would imagine that Mike wasn't too pleased with that decision. But, Mike comes back as lyricist/collaborator on the following four albums with songs like "Fun, Fun, Fun", "The Warmth Of The Sun", "All Summer Long", "I Get Around", "Good To My Baby", "Please Let Me Wonder", "Help Me R(h)onda", "California Girls", and others. Not too shabby. And, again, Brian chooses to replace him as lyricist for the next album. Now, Mike has to be feeling not only hurt, but confused. They were on quite a roll; Brian had guts, or something. Now, Pet Sounds is passed, Tony Asher is gone, and Mike is once again contributing lyrics - and maybe the riff "I'm picking up good vibrations" - for a record that is arguably the greatest single of all-time. So, Mike, you think you're "back in the fold". Nope. A guy by the name of Van Dyke Parks is the next/new lyricist.

You get the picture. I won't get into the successful Wild Honey album, or "Do It Again", or Mike's collaboration with Dennis Wilson on "Sound Of Free", "Only With You", and "Pacific Ocean Blues". Or "All I Wanna Do" or "Big Sur". You wanna mention Summer In Paradise, go ahead; it's a minor footnote.

DennisWilsonIsMyHero, you titled this thread "Something That's Always Puzzled Me". When Mike Love sees lyricists and collaborators like Eugene Landy (and his girlfriend), Joe Thomas, Jimmy Buffett, Steve Kalinich, Scott Bennett, and many others coming and going, he's probably saying/asking the same thing as you.

Superb comment, cheers for that! The new, new Mike Love total rehabilitation and adoration era starts here!

[Outie 315]

 
  Something That's Always Puzzled Me ?

 Mike was 1/4 baked and Brian was 3/4 baked!

 Way to much dope to finish anything!

[The Heartical Don]

 
  Something That's Always Puzzled Me ?

 Mike was 1/4 baked and Brian was 3/4 baked!

 Way to much dope to finish anything!

You mean... they... they used substances??   

[Outie 315]

 


      YUP!

 http://www.sirius.com/60son6

[MBE]

The only line - JUST ONE LINE - that I ever heard CONFIRMED BY Van Dyke Parks (if you can believe him ) - that Mike objected to was "over and over the crow cries uncover the cornfield". And he was asking more for an explanation than protesting, according to Mike (if you can believe HIM).

I sometimes think Mike's bigger beef was the fact that we was replaced as lyricist for the second consecutive album, and he had a hard time dealing with it. I know I would've.

Very insightful. Having been part of the most successful songwriting partnership in the U.S.A. from 1962-1966 and then being replaced by a journalist followed by a poetic intellectual who loved hermetic stuff... that must have hurt a lot.

Hurt a lot and maybe even confused....Before I make my point, I'll state that Brian Wilson earned the right to choose any lyrist/collaborator he wants. But....

Think about how Mike Love felt, and put yourself in his position. Mike was the main lyricist for the Surfin' Safari, Surfin' USA, and Surfer Girl albums, each album being more commercially and critically successful than its predecessor. So, for the next album, Brian chooses Roger Christian as his lyricist/collaborator. I would imagine that Mike wasn't too pleased with that decision. But, Mike comes back as lyricist/collaborator on the following four albums with songs like "Fun, Fun, Fun", "The Warmth Of The Sun", "All Summer Long", "I Get Around", "Good To My Baby", "Please Let Me Wonder", "Help Me R(h)onda", "California Girls", and others. Not too shabby. And, again, Brian chooses to replace him as lyricist for the next album. Now, Mike has to be feeling not only hurt, but confused. They were on quite a roll; Brian had guts, or something. Now, Pet Sounds is passed, Tony Asher is gone, and Mike is once again contributing lyrics - and maybe the riff "I'm picking up good vibrations" - for a record that is arguably the greatest single of all-time. So, Mike, you think you're "back in the fold". Nope. A guy by the name of Van Dyke Parks is the next/new lyricist.

You get the picture. I won't get into the successful Wild Honey album, or "Do It Again", or Mike's collaboration with Dennis Wilson on "Sound Of Free", "Only With You", and "Pacific Ocean Blues". Or "All I Wanna Do" or "Big Sur". You wanna mention Summer In Paradise, go ahead; it's a minor footnote.

DennisWilsonIsMyHero, you titled this thread "Something That's Always Puzzled Me". When Mike Love sees lyricists and collaborators like Eugene Landy (and his girlfriend), Joe Thomas, Jimmy Buffett, Steve Kalinich, Scott Bennett, and many others coming and going, he's probably saying/asking the same thing as you.

I think SJS has it pretty right here, but Love was hip enough to know good music even if he did resent his lesser role.
Mike was OK with Roger as he had some technical car patter down that he didn't think he could do as well. Mike has never said he didn't like Pet Sounds though yes I am sure he felt  pushed out.. Even something like "Heroes" Mike can dig, but I think what  he really hated were the hanger on's around Brian during 1966-67. Marilyn did too. Anyone who knew Brian before 1965-66 couldn't have been thrilled with he social choices of the era.

[Outie 315]

 
 Mike Love = Hip

 Hip enough to hang out in India with the Beats and a Holy Man.

[PongHit]

You mean... they... they used substances??   

No, I think he means they were in the kitchen, bakin' bread.  Real good bread.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

You mean... they... they used substances??   

No, I think he means they were in the kitchen, bakin' bread.  Real good bread.

Actually, it was brownies....

[Andrew G. Doe]

I heard it was tea - they were introduced to it by Barrington Womble.

[The Shift]

I heard it was tea - they were introduced to it by Barrington Womble.

I don't think it's appropriate to discuss tea here. You might get away with it along polite company on the Blueboard, but not here AGD.

More biscuits vicar?

[JeffRetro]

Based on BW's subsequent output over the years it must have been shortenin' bread. 

[Sheriff John Stone]

 Mike Love = Hip

In one of the first posts I ever read on some Beach Boys' message board (don't remember which one), a fan who was around during the 1963-1965 period, posted that during the striped-shirt, hit-making, surf & turf years, Mike Love was considered cool and hip, right up there with any band's lead singer/frontman. The poster also said that many fans who saw the group in concert thought that Mike Love was Brian Wilson.

[Dove Nested Towers]

I heard it was tea - they were introduced to it by Barrington Womble.

Is that  the Rutles' Barry Wom? He was first turned on to tea by the
Surrey mystic (whose name escapes me). The Oolong was rumored to be especially
potent.

[The Heartical Don]

I heard it was tea - they were introduced to it by Barrington Womble.

I don't think it's appropriate to discuss tea here. You might get away with it along polite company on the Blueboard, but not here AGD.

More biscuits vicar?

I had to change underwear after reading this.

[Outie 315]

  What color is this bd. ?

  Saint Brian lives on that blue thing.