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Poll
Question: Rate Smile: The Story of Brian Wilson's Lost Masterpiece
5 - 4 (15.4%)
4 - 5 (19.2%)
3 - 7 (26.9%)
2 - 6 (23.1%)
1 - 2 (7.7%)
0 - 2 (7.7%)
Total Voters: 20

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Author Topic: Smile: The Story of Brian Wilson's Lost Masterpiece  (Read 20885 times)
Charles LePage @ ComicList
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« on: February 12, 2006, 07:17:38 PM »

Discuss, review and rate Smile: The Story of Brian Wilson's Lost Masterpiece, released March 10, 2005.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2006, 12:21:46 PM by Charles LePage » Logged

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TV Forces
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« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2006, 07:28:08 AM »

I didn't buy it due to the trashing some folks gave it here on the message boards.  They say too much time is wasted talking about the music scene at that time.. and some claims are not backed up with evidence/sources.
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Sir Rob
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« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2006, 07:58:10 AM »

This book contains a rather sensational extract from a book by Chuck Negron (of Three Dog Night) featuring Brian being bullied and humiliated by the other Beach Boys during a Redwood session.  I know the name Priore (like that of Leaf) are swear words to some people but how reliable is Negron's account?  Should we believe it and if not, why not?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2006, 08:31:19 AM by Sir Rob » Logged

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JimC1702
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« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2006, 04:47:21 PM »

Yeah, that whole bit about Redwood is very interesting.  I wonder if any tapes exist?
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al
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« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2006, 04:51:16 PM »

The book is a HUGE disappointment. After his great Look... boo I was hoping for the definitive story. It is OK if you know nothing, but it does make some very big unsubstantiated (and in some cases plain wrong) claims which undermine him when he reaches at other points. AND he virtually ignores the second coming.

BIG missed opportunity.
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Bubba Ho-Tep
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« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2006, 09:30:45 AM »

Paints a nice picture of the whole California music scene, but it just has too many errors and things that are probably assumptions for me to get behind it. Unfortunatly, it's sort of being thought of as the last word on Smile.

I won't pick it up again.
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2006, 11:48:05 AM »

The book is a HUGE disappointment. After his great Look... boo I was hoping for the definitive story. It is OK if you know nothing, but it does make some very big unsubstantiated (and in some cases plain wrong) claims which undermine him when he reaches at other points. AND he virtually ignores the second coming.

BIG missed opportunity.

Beg to differ, but it's decidedly NOT OK if you know nothing, as it states personal theories and unsuubstantiated gossip (and in at least one case an outright lie) as fact. There's some good stuff in there, but on the whole, the sloppy research and inflexible attitude of the author undermines any claims to be the last word.
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I. Spaceman
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« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2006, 11:59:30 AM »

I couldn't agree more, and that comes from an old Dom acolyte and acquaintence. Very disappointing.
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RobtheNobleSurfer
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« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2006, 01:34:18 PM »

 There's good and bad stuff in it for sure. And Dom is certainly extremely polarizing.

The facts (i.e chart stats) are played with loosely. Some of his stuff has been disproven since it came out.

But even Dom's detarctors have to admit this: he is brilliant at painting a scene of mid 60's Los Angeles. It's popular to think of Brian as an artist who created (even at his peak) in a vacuum, but Priore shows that Brian was influnced by the era and that scene.  Another thing he did was give opportunities for those in the SMiLE-era who have never spoken about their involvement.  - Van Dyke Parks and Danny Hutton.  whether one  agrees with their take or not, these are two guys who desvered to have their side told.

It's not definitive, but it's not garbage either. Come to think of it, I don't think anybody is going to be able to paint a definitive picture of the SMiLE era.
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2006, 01:47:21 PM »

'Scuse me ? Did you really say Van Dyke had never spoken about his involvement in Smile before ?

I'm speechless.
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RobtheNobleSurfer
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« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2006, 04:26:56 PM »

Let me rephrase that. (And I apologize for forgetting Beautiful Dreamer Shocked )

The stuff he gave Dom seemed to be more "detailed" , for lack of a better word.   "This is what we did and this is how we did it". For better (he was there and he explains his lyrics!) and for worse(claiming that the Beatles stole SMiLE) , Dom gives him a forum to vent his spleen.  In fact, prior to 2004, I don't really recall reading anything of any great length from Parks about SMiLE.  The most in depth interviews on the subject came from Anderle, Mike Vosse.  Certainly not from Parks (although if there are some from pre-2004, I'd love to see them) and certainly not from Brian "I burned the tapes" Wilson.
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theeponymuseudonym
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« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2006, 05:59:29 PM »

where may i post a question on the most fierce Beach boys concert on-stage fracases??
example, Carl's drunkenness, mike swinging at brian, dennis kicking his drums at Mike,
Alan giving a dirty look to Brian, steve love calling Blondie C. a n*****, etc.Huh you know i mean.

the true dirt. lets see these in a made4 tv film bio!!!
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RobtheNobleSurfer
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« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2006, 07:55:34 PM »

Not in this forum!

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theeponymuseudonym
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« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2006, 08:23:44 PM »

ok....where then?

must we mask the true sin nature just to hear endless summer once more from the top??
seriously, it amuses me when i think of these all american "boys" having real problems and deal w/ them in less than the PC ways they're all "supposed" to behave.

we can't seem to get enough of hearing the RHONDA sessions w/ ol' Daddy Murray?! geez, whydoya think?

i'ts sad but real & true..alot more than their 80's republican do-gooder postuering.

these are the basis of what Oliver Stone should found a "true-life"biopic
AN AMERICAN FAMILY indeed!!! i can see the caption line now.....
                                     ENVY, GREED, ,DEPRESSION, INCEST....AMERICA'S BAND
                                                                                                                          THE BEACH BOYS

....ps- Start in 1967, After Pet Sounds "faliure"!!!!!
          when should this film end, though, pleae somebody humour me...lets discuss
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I. Spaceman
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« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2006, 10:16:04 PM »

Bull-foda-sh*t.
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theeponymuseudonym
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« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2006, 10:18:33 PM »

"It's Ok"
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Sir Rob
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« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2006, 03:00:23 AM »

The book is a HUGE disappointment. After his great Look... boo I was hoping for the definitive story. It is OK if you know nothing, but it does make some very big unsubstantiated (and in some cases plain wrong) claims which undermine him when he reaches at other points. AND he virtually ignores the second coming.

BIG missed opportunity.

Beg to differ, but it's decidedly NOT OK if you know nothing, as it states personal theories and unsuubstantiated gossip (and in at least one case an outright lie) as fact. There's some good stuff in there, but on the whole, the sloppy research and inflexible attitude of the author undermines any claims to be the last word.

I'd be interested in your opinion on the Chuck Negron book extract which depicts Brian being subjected to some rather unpleasant treatment by the rest of the band durin the Redwood period.  Complete lies, or what?  And if so, what would make one come to that conclusion?
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2006, 04:54:45 AM »

I read that when it came out. That's the only place anyone has ever mentioned anything like that, which of course doesn't invalidate it. My Three Dog Night knowledge is lamentable. Could have happend as described although A) doesn't sound like Carl at all and B) someone better qualifed pointed out the session dates don't jibe. I'm preserving an open mind... but it's funny a close friend like Danny Hutton hasn't, to my knowledge (corrections welcomed, usual address), said word one about it on some 39-odd years.

However, the claim in Priore's book that the Beatles covertly heard Smile[/i] tapes on a visit to LA - and to be fair he's only going on what Van Dyke told him - totally falls apart with the most cursory internet research. As described, no way it could have happened (and on being questioned by a friend about it, Van Dyke merely stated that he based this claim on both Smile and Pepper utilising sound effects). Any responsible author would have taken the half-hour (tops) to check a few Beatles sites and do a rough timeline. No-one was in the right place at the right time until, at best, early 1967 - when Pepper[/i] was being mixed.
 
Another example - Priore claims that the reason we stopped playing Smile at the Stomp Convention in the early/mid 80s was because we were leaned on by BRI. As one who back then was helping out at the gig and preparing the tapes for playing, I can unequivically state that this is totally untrue. Why did we stop playing the tapes ? Because by late 1984, pretty much everyone had them anyway.

The best, the only foundation for any book like this, is facts. Not what you've heard, not what you want to hear, not what you think, not what you want to think - checkable, hard facts.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2006, 02:51:58 AM by Andrew G. Doe » Logged

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Jeff Mason
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« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2006, 05:51:26 AM »

Or how about his claim that Dennis Wilson is not audible on Pet Sounds?  When he clearly has a vocal on WIBN and plays drums on That's Not Me?
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2006, 06:17:52 AM »

The whole description of how "WIBN" was recorded (viz, in mono) had me rolling on the floor.

The book has some great contextural material (I'm told it originated in his as-yet unpublished book on Sunset Strip - no matter, it's good stuff) and some excellent and heart-felt writing but, speaking personally, when something as simple as the chart position for Spirit Of America is stated inaccurately, the veracity of the more arcane stuff becomes debateable.

One thing I want to point out here that I've heard raised elsewhere: Priore has been given a hard time for stating that Oppenheim captured on film a spat between Mike & Brian about the lyrics to "Surf's Up" when no such footage exists. In defence of a fellow author and BB commentator, his book was published some time before Oppenheim's film reel notes were unearthed and put up on the old Smile Shop MB. The guy's not clairvoyant.
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« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2006, 09:03:43 AM »

One thing I want to point out here that I've heard raised elsewhere: Priore has been given a hard time for stating that Oppenheim captured on film a spat between Mike & Brian about the lyrics to "Surf's Up" when no such footage exists. In defence of a fellow author and BB commentator, his book was published some time before Oppenheim's film reel notes were unearthed and put up on the old Smile Shop MB. The guy's not clairvoyant.
That's true. But it was also the first time such a claim was made, and unless Van Dyke made another unsubstantiated claim, Priore's only source is one highly ambiguous sentence from Jules Siegel. "Gone very badly" can mean anything. The only sensible thing to do would have been to double-check that his interpretation was right, and considering that Siegel's e-mail address has been on the net since the 90s it wasn't a hard thing to do. And when asked by Smile Shopper Jasper, Siegel couldn't remember any fight, of course. Such light-hearted use of unsubstantiated does not a good history book make.
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RobtheNobleSurfer
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« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2006, 01:51:40 PM »

Just because it wasn't filmed, doesn't mean it never took place.

I asked  a certain BB scholar about those Inside Pop reels and the arguments when Dan Lega posted his research. ,  I was told that the arguments happened "behind closed doors" as it were -  there was no chance that any strife was going to be captured for posterity.
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2006, 01:59:01 PM »

Nope, can't disagree with you - but in the book, it's stated as being captured on film, something we now know to be in error. Hopefully, any further editions will correct this.
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RobtheNobleSurfer
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« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2006, 03:55:48 PM »

Yeah, Dom does deserve a wet noodle lash for that one!
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Bubba Ho-Tep
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« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2006, 09:02:47 AM »

It adds fuel to many fires that are based on distorted facts.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2006, 09:24:59 AM by Bubba Ho-Tep » Logged
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