The Reception Of BWPS

[MBE]

I think the "my wife and managers pushed me to do it" response is fairly innocuous.

The response is innocuous. The truth behind the response is not innocuous.

Wow you summed it up perfect with one line!

[b00ts]

1. ANY artist? Dylan, McCartney, Paul Simon, Ray Davies, Clapton? Do you think any of them are thinking much about the money these days?

2. They (Brian's team) could profit in other ways than album sales; see my above post.

3. In this thread, I have read several posters state that BWPS had a positive effect on Brian. Can somebody list some? I see a Brian who has aged since BWPS (yes, I know he's older); he hasn't looked well in some of the recent appearances; he appears to be slurring again in interviews and doesn't appear as focused. I was listening to BW88 and Imagination lately. When taking the bulk of the tunes off both of those albums and comparing them to WIRWFC and TLOS, I don't see much difference in quality or performance (I think his vocal on "Goin' Home" is one of his worst since 15 Big Ones). He has employed better producers and collaborators; I'll give him credit for that. But what am I supposed to see in Brian that BWPS made better?

Very late edit: Add Lou Reed to that list of artists.

Hey SJS -

First off, I must say that when I picked up my vinyl copy of TLOS (I had heard the live and demo versions prior to the retail release) I was shocked at how great Brian's vocals on Goin' Home were - with a rough edge to them, like he had discovered a new way to use his aging voice. Very cool stuff. Perhaps what sounds "rockin and rollin" to me, sounds "mid-70s BW not giving a sh*t" to you. Fair enough, friend!

When it comes to the thing about Brian's statement being innocuous, but the truth behind such a statement not being innocuous - this is what piques my interest.

I understand the basic idea behind what you're talking about, that Brian could be (or in your opinion, potentially is? correct me if I am wrong) manipulated by those around him, just as happened in the 1970s-1980s... I am interested in hearing more rationale for this. Not that I totally disagree with the opinion, mind you. I'm sure there is a degree of manipulation going on.

What I am equally sure of, is that Brian is more in control (or at least is pleasantly compromising/acquiescing) than many of us give him credit for. The elephant in the room is the fact that BDW simply has not made a lot of money off of his solo career. Recording SMiLe, therefore, seems to have been a therapeutic exercise for him first and foremost, or perhaps his camp was expecting it to go triple-platinum in the first week? I doubt it.

Of course, the truth lies in the shades of gray, so that's what I am looking for. I think that all of us can potentially admit that no matter what Brian Wilson did, no matter how he did it, we would still be picking it apart and overanalyzing it; some of us would say he was being used, even if he wasn't; some of us (bl00board mentality) would say that Brian is in total control, which is similarly ludicrous, at least it seems like it.

As I stated above, it is important to remember that Brian has years and years of psychological manipulation under his belt. I'm sure he isn't going along with this touring/recording scheme unless he wants to on some level...

[Sheriff John Stone]

But what am I supposed to see in Brian that BWPS made better?

i think BWPS helped him psychologically. It's closure for a source of deep pain for him. That's not Leaf-esque blather, it's common sense. It's not going to reverse 30 years of all kinds of drug abuse and the mental effects thereof. But it's something, right?

hypehat, let me ask you (and any others) a question about the "healing" of Brian done by BWPS. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, a cynic, or just plain negative, but do you really, REALLY, believe that BWPS had a significant effect - positive or otherwise - on Brian Wilson?

In an above post, MBE wrote of Brian, "I think his problems run far deeper than his career." I agree very much with that assessment. I'm stating the obvious here, but the Brian Wilson today is different from the Brian Wilson of 1969, 1979, 1989, and maybe even 1999. He is many years, many drugs, many deaths, and many days of just trying to have some peace of mind - away -  to "care" like he used to. To paraphrase Bob Dylan, "He used to care, but things have changed." Do you see any of that? Do you think that the emotional pain caused by SMiLE (and some actually think it wasn't that great, that he moved on) continued to haunt Brian, even after all of the other trauma in his life? Or, do you think that took a back seat to basic survival? At that point in his life (2004), with his marriage and kids and extended family and his (emotional and physical) health, was SMiLE something that continued to pain Brian, something that needed healing?

I looked for these positives, this healing, in BWPS. I saw an artist who wasn't interested or curious enough to attend the recording of the tracks. I saw a person who had nothing insightful to say in interviews. I saw it more as a job for Brian than an artistic journey. Yeah, there are times in the Beautiful Dreamer documentary, specifically the concert portion, where Brian appears to be really "into the music". But, quite frankly, the most "moved" Brian appears to be is when he kisses Paul McCartney's hand.

What did Brian take from the BWPS experience? Again, you tell me. You are the one(s) who are mentioning the positive experiences. I don't know where he's at psychologically, which is most important. I've seen some recent stuff, interviews and performances, that make me uncomfortable. What we do know is that Brian followed BWPS with a Christmas album. While "Christmasey" and the title track are nice songs, they aren't anything special. IMO, the best song on the album is "Joy To The World, from the Joe Thomas sessions, pre-BWPS.

And then there's TLOS. As I stated in an above post, IMO, there is little difference quality-wise in the bulk 5-6 songs from BW88 to Imagination to TLOS. Yes, TLOS is overall a stronger album, maybe, but that's because Scott Bennett is a better songwriter and producer than Eugene Landy and Joe Thomas. But, Brian's best vocals are still from Imagination!

[Sheriff John Stone]

I understand the basic idea behind what you're talking about, that Brian could be (or in your opinion, potentially is? correct me if I am wrong) manipulated by those around him, just as happened in the 1970s-1980s...

OK, I'll correct you!

That's not really what I'm saying. C'mon, bOOts, haven't you been reading my posts on BWPS? I've been beating this dead horse for five years now!

Instead of being lengthy and boring like I usually am, I'll be brief, 'cause I wanna watch the basketball game! No, I don't think Brian was manipulated with BWPS. I think Brian has problems putting his heart and soul into his art for several reasons - see my above post - and it comes off as Brian not giving a sh*t. Or, maybe he really doesn't give a sh*t. I think Melinda & Team laid out a picture of what the SMiLE material could do for Brian - mostly financially motivated and solo career saving - and Brian simply said, "Yeah, sounds good."

Thus, those magically composed and beautifully arranged SMiLE songs were "used" for a purpose, a financial purpose, which was not originally intended by Brian, when he did put his heart and soul (and brain) into his music), when he was creating music for the sake of art.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I'm not trying to be sarcastic, a cynic, or just plain negative, but do you really, REALLY, believe that BWPS had a significant effect - positive or otherwise - on Brian Wilson?

Emotionally & psychologically, yes. Unfortunately, I think much of what we are seeing now is the result of age catching up to Brian (keeping in mind that the years of self-abuse and those f*cking meds Landy had him on may have aged him quicker than he would have normally), and nothing sort of the hand of God could change that.

[The Heartical Don]

I'm not trying to be sarcastic, a cynic, or just plain negative, but do you really, REALLY, believe that BWPS had a significant effect - positive or otherwise - on Brian Wilson?

Emotionally & psychologically, yes. Unfortunately, I think much of what we are seeing now is the result of age catching up to Brian (keeping in mind that the years of self-abuse and those friggin' meds Landy had him on may have aged him quicker than he would have normally), and nothing sort of the hand of God could change that.

Makes sense. Brian is almost 67 now. And: people age in all kinds of different ways. Perhaps we should act discretely on this matter?

[Amy B.]

Here's what I think.  I think that yes, BWPS did have a positive effect on Brian. It wasn't an overnight miracle... it was a slow realization that this music was okay to embrace, because the public was embracing it. Brian puts a lot of stock in what the public thinks. It was his bread and butter for years and probably contributes a lot to his sense of self-worth. In fact, I think Brian's initial success happened when he was so young that the creation of music is a key element of his adult identity, and he needs it to some degree--but he needs to be pushed to create. I do think the failure of Smile in the 60s was an albatross for him. Do I think it caused his mental illness? No, of course not. But it might have exacerbated its symptoms. Therefore, BWPS would not "cure" his mental illness. It might be therapeutic, though.

What's the evidence? I think TLOS is the evidence. No, I don't think Scott is mostly responsible for TLOS, simply because Scott's other music is pleasant, but nothing beyond that, in my opinion. Brian, on the other hand, is still capable of moments of magic, and you can hear that in TLOS. Even Scott pointed out Brian's gift for coming up with "money chords." But it's hard to believe Brian would have had it in him to complete TLOS in, say, 2000. He's not as ambitious as he was in the 60s, due to mental illness, the effects of the drugs, and the fact that he's a lot older. But he's gotten some ambition back. I think he was genuinely excited about TLOS. And I think that feeling of "Yes, I love this music. Yes, this is going to be great. Yes, I can't wait for the public to hear this" showed up again, and I think it comes down to confidence, which trickled back in after BWPS. Yes, a project can be finished. Yes, I can do this because I have people to help me, and that's okay.

[hypehat]

Sheriff, most of what you're pointing out - interviews, voice, cba-approach to recording - isn't really related to completing Smile. Completing that won't stop interviewers asking about Pet Sounds, or the obvious detrimental effects of his drug abuse on his voice and attention span, (and age not making that any better) and that's what we see. I think that completing Smile to such acclaim must have a positive effect on his mind.  How could it not?
So basically, i'm saying Smile helps his mind, but the day-to-day professional life gets the better of him sometimes. We see the negative effects of that more than the positive effect of completing that (the recent wave of songwriting, with TLOS and it's bonus tracks, is much better than Imagination imo and the two could well be related)

Sampled Harpsichords, anyone?