Beach Boys influence on Beatles post Sgt. Pepper

[The Song Of The Grange]

I was listening to Abbey Road the other day, and if "Because" wasn't influenced by the Beach Boys I don't know what was.  It sounds like the Beatles' answer to "Our Prayer".

That got me thinking about Wilson and the BBs influence on the Beatles.  Pet Sounds pulling sway on Sgt Pepper is well documented.  Also pretty well know is "Here, There and Everywhere" being an early answer to Pet Sounds.  I came up with an unscientific list of Beatles songs that were, or very well could have been influenced by the BB's or at least were covering the same territory.

"You Know My Name, Look Up The Number"--didn't come out until 70' but was recorded during Pepper sessions.  It is a series of variation on the same thing.  Recorded in sections. Lots of chants.  Very Brian Wilson.

"Lady Madonna"--The Beatles suddenly take an R&B turn following the release of Wild Honey.

"Hey Bulldog"--from same time frame.  Baroque pop gone, R&B in.  Brian was there first.

"Back In The USSR"--for obvious reasons.

"Happy Birthday Mike Love"--from India songs.  Not much of a song.

"Happiness is a Warm Gun"--Three unique song sections hooked together (though recorded all at once I believe).

Smile--John and Yoko film of John smiling for 50 minutes.  Might be a stretch to say there was an influence but I have heard it mentioned before.

Get Back Project--stripped down, back to basics, R&B.  Again, Wild Honey.  If anything Brian felt the urge first and covered this territory over a year before the Beatles.

Abbey Road Project--in general a continued focus on R&B.  Trippy music is gone, experimentation is pretty much gone.

"Because"--as mentioned above.  Could be a BBs outtake.  We think of Paul as the one who followed Brian, but I think John payed attention too.

"I Want You She's So Heavy"--recorded in sections, multi-movement.  I know it is a bit of a stretch.

The connected end of Abbey Road--Pretty much a whole side of connected little songs, with a few themes reprising later on.  I wonder who had that idea in 66?

Phil Spector--called in to fix up the Get Back sessions, produced a very wall-of-sound triple album for Harrison.  Lennon's Spector work is not very Spector-like at all until Imagine.

What am I missing?

[MBE]

I will tell you the two moments I think of Beach Boys the most is on the Anthology LP's (yes I said LP's and I mean it). The early Eight Days A Week and Got To Get You Into My Life are so Beach Boys drenched that I think they really felt they had to be changed.

[Jason]

Damen und Herren....seine Hoffman-thread.

[Mark H.]

I love the BBs.  But other than "Back in the USSR" I just don't buy it.  I doubt The Beatles ever heard Wild Honey other than Darlin.

[Chris Brown]

I hear a lot of Beach Boys influence on "Penny Lane," mostly in the melodic bass line.  Macca has stated that he was influenced by Brian's bass writing on Pet Sounds, and I've always found the influence particularly evident on that track.

[OGoldin]

If we can go post-Beatles, the first Wings album, Wildlife, is very Brian-like.  Just like the post-Smile Brian of Wild Honey and Friends, lowering the expectations everyone had of a masterpiece, playing loose music with friends and family, happy now, after a period of perfectionism, to leave flaws in as part of the charm.  The lyrics simplified but the songwriting still strong, with gorgeous chord changes.  But Paul's concept of what the band Wings was about was soon to change and to go in a very un-Brian direction.

[XY]

I love the BBs.  But other than "Back in the USSR" I just don't buy it.  I doubt The Beatles ever heard Wild Honey other than Darlin.

I don't know, there's "Wild Honey Pie" on the Beatles follow-up White Album.  

George Harrison once stated that the singing on "Paperback Writer" and the more complicated productions with double tracked backing vocals hard to sing on stage from the Pre-Pepper era were BB-influenced.

Anyone ever noticed "Waaater...Cool, clear water...waaaaater" in Lennon's 1974 song "Old Dirty Road"

[sofonanm]

I love the BBs.  But other than "Back in the USSR" I just don't buy it.  I doubt The Beatles ever heard Wild Honey other than Darlin.

wat

I'm of the belief that Paul McCartney has a secret collection of everything Brian Wilson ever conceived and put to tape. You think Paul would go from oozing over Pet Sounds to never buying one of their records ever again? C'mon, that's absurd. Besides, Paul is the kind of guy who you just KNOW would be groovin' all over Wild Honey. It's probably his "Be My Baby" - as soon as he wakes up he turns on the album.

[sofonanm]

Also... much is made of Brian's "slice of life" songs ...... hasn't anyone heard Paul's first solo record?

[MBE]

They were still very big in the U.K. They had a lot more influence there.

[Smilin Ed H]

"Damen und Herren....seine Hoffman-thread."

Can you imagine.  You'd be flamed to hell!

[buddhahat]

I was listening to Abbey Road the other day, and if "Because" wasn't influenced by the Beach Boys I don't know what was.  It sounds like the Beatles' answer to "Our Prayer".

I've often thought the same thing regarding Our Prayer and you have to wonder whether Lennon had heard it but I think it's probably just a coincidence. I think the primary influence on that song was Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata. I'm sure the story is that Yoko asked him to write something similar. I think heroin also plays a large part in the blissed out nature of Beacuse. It's one of my favourite Beatles tracks - I was listening to it whilst driving in the sunshine the other day - incredible stuff.

[lance]

I don't think Lennon was inspired to write Because by the Beach Boys. I think that the vocal arrangment, which is probably as much McCartney and Martin definitely is though. Ditto Sun King.

I also think that Lady Madonna is VERY Wild Honey inspired. Not so much "Hey Bulldog"

I always thought that Getting Better has a sort of 'Look" vibe to it.

"Wild Honey Pie" is not Beach Boys like, but the title is.

McCartney's bass playing very Brian Wilson.

I definitely DO think that McCartney in particular was influenced by Brian Wilson.

However it's a bit overplayed. I think McCartney (and the Beatles)was influenced by a LOT of contemporary artists--that's almost what makes him McCartney, when  you think about it. It's not as if he's a BW rip-off artist...he rips off nearly everybody and synthesizes the influences into something new.

Buddhahat, I have to disagree about heroin being a hidden influence in Because. God, what a beautiful song, though, innit?

[lance]

I don't think Lennon was inspired to write Because by the Beach Boys. I think that the vocal arrangment, which is probably as much McCartney and Martin definitely is though. Ditto Sun King.

I also think that Lady Madonna is VERY Wild Honey inspired. Not so much "Hey Bulldog"

I always think that Getting Better has a sort of Brian Wilson vibe to it.

"Wild Honey Pie" is not Beach Boys like, but the title is.

McCartney's bass playing very Brian Wilson.

I definitely DO think that McCartney in particular was influenced by Brian Wilson.

However it's a bit overplayed. I think McCartney (and the Beatles)was influenced by a LOT of contemporary artists--that's almost what makes him McCartney, when  you think about it. It's not as if he's a BW rip-off artist...he rips off nearly everybody and synthesizes the influences into something new.

Buddhahat, I have to disagree about heroin being a hidden influence in Because. God, what a beautiful song, though, innit?

[hypehat]

I think Macca was always Brian rather than BB's influenced. And the band made no attempt to downplay Brian's absence during 68-70, so i think the influence kind of stopped after Pet Sounds - Maybe he just didn't like Wild Honey?

[buddhahat]

Buddhahat, I have to disagree about heroin being a hidden influence in Because. God, what a beautiful song, though, innit?

I actually plagiarised that idea from the same place I read that Because was influenced by Beethoven. Might have been Mojo or something. Anyway, all the references to being turned on and general mouth agape at the beauty of nature vibe make it feel like a drug song to me and I suppose as his drug of choice at that point was heroin, it's a logical conclusion. Does feel pretty smacked out in it's wooziness, and there's a certain icy detachment to the whole thing. Regardless it is indeed stunning. In fact the whole of side 2 of Abbey Road is completely stunning. I think the album often gets maligned by rock snobs because it has Maxwell's Silver Hammer on it but frankly I think AR haters have cloth for brains.

[The Song Of The Grange]

Buddhahat, I have to disagree about heroin being a hidden influence in Because. God, what a beautiful song, though, innit?

I actually plagiarised that idea from the same place I read that Because was influenced by Beethoven. Might have been Mojo or something. Anyway, all the references to being turned on and general mouth agape at the beauty of nature vibe make it feel like a drug song to me and I suppose as his drug of choice at that point was heroin, it's a logical conclusion. Does feel pretty smacked out in it's wooziness, and there's a certain icy detachment to the whole thing. Regardless it is indeed stunning. In fact the whole of side 2 of Abbey Road is completely stunning. I think the album often gets maligned by rock snobs because it has Maxwell's Silver Hammer on it but frankly I think AR haters have cloth for brains.

I agree.  Abbey Road is a masterwork.  Not as ground breaking as something like Revolver or Pepper, but the work of seasoned masters.  I too have thought Getting Better off of Pepper has a Look vibe.  If there was ever evidence of the Beatles hearing Smile acetates, I think Getting Better would be it.

I also agree that the Beatles were being influenced by all sorts of artists, obviously not just BW.  But I think the way rock history has been written over glorifies the Beatles as this completely original fountain of great art.  In fact, what they excelled at was paying attention to what everyone else was doing and then taking it a step further.  I think that is true for BW's influence on the group.

[Dr. Tim]

As with everything concerning the Nurk Twins, there's cross-pollination.  But Macca freely admits the Brian influence, see the Barry Miles bio.  Paul was always interested in what Brian was up to.  The only other artist the Beatles "watched" and took cues from was Bob Dylan, who influenced John especially.   George, of course, brought Ravi Shankar and Indian Music along.  But that's it. Nobody else.  The Rolling Stones were chums and all, but the Beatles never followed anything they (or anyone else) did on their side of the pond.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I always thought that George Harrison's late 60s song had a late 60s BB feel. I also heard that he was a fan of the BBs at the time.

[earcandy]

I love the BBs.  But other than "Back in the USSR" I just don't buy it.  I doubt The Beatles ever heard Wild Honey other than Darlin.

wat

I'm of the belief that Paul McCartney has a secret collection of everything Brian Wilson ever conceived and put to tape. You think Paul would go from oozing over Pet Sounds to never buying one of their records ever again? C'mon, that's absurd. Besides, Paul is the kind of guy who you just KNOW would be groovin' all over Wild Honey. It's probably his "Be My Baby" - as soon as he wakes up he turns on the album.

Documents related to the "Priore of SMiLE-on" have been recently discovered that show that Phil Spector was the "grand master" from 1962-1968. It is quite possible that Phil Spector promised unreleased Brian tapes to the Beatles in in exchange for "producer rights" on "Let It Be" - giving Paul full access to Brian's 'creative thought process'. 

Derek Taylor's involvement with the "Priore of SMiLE-on" has not be clarified as of yet.  However, he did try to get "Opus Dei and the Knights" (A retro-50's band that dressed as monks) signed to Apple in 1968 - which can possibly point to his involvement in this conspiracy.

 

[sly74]

I hear a lot of Beach Boys influence on "Penny Lane," mostly in the melodic bass line.  Macca has stated that he was influenced by Brian's bass writing on Pet Sounds, and I've always found the influence particularly evident on that track.

i've noticed the same thing. haven't done a back to back comparison and am going by my memory here, but the bass line in the verses of Penny Lane is very simllar to the chorus of "Here Today". and again, bass leading into the choruses of both are similar. i've read the Beatles actually discussed who was going to rip off this line, that riff,etc. when hearing Pet Sounds.  i'm not a Beatles fan....

[Wrightfan]

Anyone ever noticed "Waaater...Cool, clear water...waaaaater" in Lennon's 1974 song "Old Dirty Road"

Wouldn't both be inspired by that old country song of the same name?

[buddhahat]

I hear a lot of Beach Boys influence on "Penny Lane," mostly in the melodic bass line.  Macca has stated that he was influenced by Brian's bass writing on Pet Sounds, and I've always found the influence particularly evident on that track.

i've noticed the same thing. haven't done a back to back comparison and am going by my memory here, but the bass line in the verses of Penny Lane is very simllar to the chorus of "Here Today". and again, bass leading into the choruses of both are similar. i've read the Beatles actually discussed who was going to rip off this line, that riff,etc. when hearing Pet Sounds.  i'm not a Beatles fan....

Yes I think Penny Lane is very BB influenced. I also find Your Mother Should know has a very Pet Sounds vibe. Not sure what it is about it - maybe the melody reminds me of God Only Knows.

The Fool on The Hill also has a prominent bass harmonica sound which reminds of Beach Boys, but I guess lots of artists use the bass harmonica so it's not a definite.

[Rocker]

I was listening to Abbey Road the other day, and if "Because" wasn't influenced by the Beach Boys I don't know what was.  It sounds like the Beatles' answer to "Our Prayer".

"Lady Madonna"--The Beatles suddenly take an R&B turn following the release of Wild Honey.

"Hey Bulldog"--from same time frame.  Baroque pop gone, R&B in.  Brian was there first.

Get Back Project--stripped down, back to basics, R&B.  Again, Wild Honey.  If anything Brian felt the urge first and covered this territory over a year before the Beatles.

Abbey Road Project--in general a continued focus on R&B.  Trippy music is gone, experimentation is pretty much gone.

You know, first, I think their R'n'B-sound is likely because they started as a rock'n'roll-cover-band and played alot of R'n'B.
But I always wondered how likely it is that they were influenced by "Wild honey" and the direction Brian and the BBs went into. How well was WH received in the UK ? What about other (big) musicians? I heard WH was Jim Morrison's favorite album, so there could definitely be an influence. 

[Howie Edelson]

What everybody fails to mention is that the backing vocals on McCartney's RAM album are almost a homage to SUNFLOWER. It always boggles my mind that McCartney never namechecks that. The first four McCartney albums were directly inspired -- in vibe, if not musically -- by WILD HONEY and FRIENDS.

That said, although many on this board would love to believe that Lennon had his ears glued to what Brian Wilson was doing in the '60s -- he wasn't.  Not in the least.