The Good Vibrations in Stereo thread

[Jason]

I know, according to current information, that no true stereo version of Good Vibrations can possibly be made due to the fact that the vocal sessions have been missing since the mono mixdown in '66. So let's get that out of the way.

On a certain piece of shoe, don't know which, there's what appears to be a sort of binaural stereo mix (think Chuck Britz's "stereo mixes" on Surfin' USA and Surfer Girl on the two-fers) of the song presumably dating from '66. I'm quite sure it's an outfake, as I have no idea why Brian or anyone else except possibly Chuck Britz (and even then it's still doubtful) would make a test mix in binaural stereo, especially using discarded vocal pieces in the right channel as in this mix. Keep in mind however, that the circulating session tapes from the Capitol era, when presented in stereo, are actually mixed from the original tape sources (four and eight-track) to two-track binaural stereo.

Vocals are mainly hard left, though some vocals are on the right channel. Most instruments on the right channel, some percussion and theremin on the left. It's not, however, an instance where someone took the mono version and stuck it in the left channel then put what appears to be PART of the 1983 mono Rarities mix in the right channel.

This one really has me confused. It makes absolutely no sense that anyone would make what appears to be a test mix in binaural stereo.

[The Shift]

You might have to tell us which "shoe" it's on so we can reference the precise faux mix you're referring to. By coincidence, I spent the last two days listening to the SoT USM 3CD set (though via iPod & speakers, nothing truly hi-fi!).  So much variety and creativity distilled down into 3-minutes-and-umpty-seconds of sounds!

I often wonder how much work has been done trying to track down the original G. Vibes multi tracks.  Maybe they;ll turn up one day like those Shut Down Vol 2 tapes recently did. Wasn't there a radio doc many years ago (70s?) about the making of Good Vibes, that used some of the session tapes to demonstrate the recording/editing process? I don't have even a boot of that but wonder whether some tapes were loaned out for that and never returned?

Maybe Alan Boyd could fill us in on the process by which the powers that be go about searching for such things?

[Jonas]

oops sorry, that was me tinkering in the studio

[c-man]

You might have to tell us which "shoe" it's on so we can reference the precise faux mix you're referring to. By coincidence, I spent the last two days listening to the SoT USM 3CD set (though via iPod & speakers, nothing truly hi-fi!).  So much variety and creativity distilled down into 3-minutes-and-umpty-seconds of sounds!

I often wonder how much work has been done trying to track down the original G. Vibes multi tracks.  Maybe they;ll turn up one day like those Shut Down Vol 2 tapes recently did. Wasn't there a radio doc many years ago (70s?) about the making of Good Vibes, that used some of the session tapes to demonstrate the recording/editing process? I don't have even a boot of that but wonder whether some tapes were loaned out for that and never returned?

Maybe Alan Boyd could fill us in on the process by which the powers that be go about searching for such things?

I don't think the 4-track tapes of the Western, Gold Star, and Sunset Sound instrumental tracking sessions are missing...they were used to put together the various montages that appear on the Capitol twofers and box set.  What's missing are the Columbia Studios 8-track tapes, with the vocals on them. 

And, because of the use of the 8-track facility, Chuck Britz was NOT involved in the final mixdowns...those would have to have been done at Columbia.  Unless he accompanied Brian over to Colubmia, but I've never seen any evidence of that (Jim Lockert, on the other hand, who also worked for Western at the time, DID say he went with Brian over to Columbia once for a "Good Vibes" session). 

[The Shift]

What's missing are the Columbia Studios 8-track tapes, with the vocals on them.   

Ah -  so these could have been turfed out during the same clear-out that reportedly saw the Columbia SMiLE vocal sessions go to landfill?

[c-man]

What's missing are the Columbia Studios 8-track tapes, with the vocals on them.   

Ah -  so these could have been turfed out during the same clear-out that reportedly saw the Columbia SMiLE vocal sessions go to landfill?

Yes...According to Mark Linett (in a 1994 ESQ interview), the "Stack O' Tracks" version of "Good Vibrations" included on the 1993 box set was taken from an 8-track copy of the final 4-track master edit.  That diced & spliced 4-track, along with the final 8-track to which it was transferred (and to which the vocals were added), has vanished (Bruce believes maybe it was thrown out during a massive clean-out at Columbia Studios in early '67). 

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Or maybe some dude has them in his basement and will one day suddenly think:  "oh, maybe the Beach Boys would want these?"

[onkster]

AUGGGHHHHH!

SMiLE vocal sessions went to landfill?  Which ones?

God this kills me.  Hollywood is so horrible with legacy...

[The Shift]

Well, landfill as a generalisation, but yes. As C-Man says, Bruce J did say (I think it might have been on the Yellow board years ago) that a bunch of vocal session tapes might have been ditched when Columbia's vaults were cleared out.

I wasn't aware of the '67 date that C-Man's put on the clear-out – seems a bit early to be ditching tapes for an album that probably hadn't been scrapped at that stage.

But then BJ also told the Yellow board that his acetate of an otherwise unheard Heroes & Villains mix was buried in a time capsule beneath a new development on Hawaii! Bruce J, eh, what a joker!

The Columbia stuff, if it wasn't chucked out, should now be in a CBS repository somewhere, if my memory serves me correctly.

[c-man]

Well, landfill as a generalisation, but yes. As C-Man says, Bruce J did say (I think it might have been on the Yellow board years ago) that a bunch of vocal session tapes might have been ditched when Columbia's vaults were cleared out.

I wasn't aware of the '67 date that C-Man's put on the clear-out – seems a bit early to be ditching tapes for an album that probably hadn't been scrapped at that stage.

But then BJ also told the Yellow board that his acetate of an otherwise unheard Heroes & Villains mix was buried in a time capsule beneath a new development on Hawaii! Bruce J, eh, what a joker!

The Columbia stuff, if it wasn't chucked out, should now be in a CBS repository somewhere, if my memory serves me correctly.

But when the Boys' back catalog reverted from CBS to BRI in the early '90s, Columbia handed over everything marked "Beach Boys" that was still in their vaults...that's how the Boys ended up with the 8-track masters from "Summer Days" that had been missing for decades.  So, I doubt CBS still has anything. 

[The infamous Baldwin Organ]

Not to get anything started, but I have made my own Good Vibrations stereo version, and it is exactly the same takes and versions of the record, I just had to cut the different sections together. I was able to create it after I recieved an mp3 of the vocals only. I think that is what everyone was missing, right? The vocals are in mono, but that doesn't detract anything in my opinion, and the track is in stereo. It's perfectly possible if you think outside the box.

[Jay]

This is slightly off topic, but I have NEVER understood the motivation or thought process that goes into destroying or throwing away an actual master tape.

[?]

You might have to tell us which "shoe" it's on so we can reference the precise faux mix you're referring to.

Haven't heard it in awhile, but it sounds like it's from the Millennium Edition Smile to me.  It's basically all outfakes.  Personally, I hated it. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

This is slightly off topic, but I have NEVER understood the motivation or thought process that goes into destroying or throwing away an actual master tape.

Wasn't the master - it was the vocal multitrack (one track instruments/seven tracks vocals). Bruce told me that at Columbia, a converted theater, they stored the tapes in the old balcony, and in spring 1967, they basically emptied it wholesale into the company dumpster.

[Jay]

Perhaps I should have worded my post differently. What I was getting at is, I could never understand why a studio would get rid of a multitrack/master/whatever, for any reason. I mean, did the studios really not think that certain tapes would ever be needed again?

[mikeyj]

Wasn't the master - it was the vocal multitrack (one track instruments/seven tracks vocals). Bruce told me that at Columbia, a converted theater, they stored the tapes in the old balcony, and in spring 1967, they basically emptied it wholesale into the company dumpster.

Whoever is responsible should be thrown in jail!! I mean maybe I could forgive them if it was "Cassius" Love Vs. "Sonny" Wilson, but Good Vibrations? Especially when it was such a recent hit as well

[Jay]

I have an interesting story that somebody "in the know" once told me. It's a little off topic as far as Beach Boys go though. Some "cleaning lady" once stole, and erased, several film reels of vintage episodes of The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. All of the erased film was dated from the 1960's to the 1970's. Among the films erased were a 1968 episode with  John Lennon and Paul Mccartney, and a 1969 episode with Jimi Hendrix, with Flip Wilson as guest host. When Johnny Carson found out, he had the lady fired. It's amost enough to make a grown man cry.

[The Shift]

Many many years ago, someone at Scottish Television (or whatever incarnation it was in back then) decided to throw out hundreds of reels of old tape to clear up some space. Into a skip went many many reels of soccer match footage. You'd think, being based in Old Firm-crazy Glasgow, they'd know better. Anyway, someone did know better. He spotted them, dug them out, took them home and stored them. He now earns an income licensing the stuff back to STV (and others) whenever they need to show footage of old matches.

That's the kind of story that makes me hope that, one day, all that Good Vibes and SMiLE stuff will turn up... perhaps in Glasgow!

[The Shift]

But when the Boys' back catalog reverted from CBS to BRI in the early '90s, Columbia handed over everything marked "Beach Boys" that was still in their vaults...that's how the Boys ended up with the 8-track masters from "Summer Days" that had been missing for decades.  So, I doubt CBS still has anything. 

I guess anything that was incorrectly labelled might still be stray? I guess we can only hope that there's some more stuff out there waiting to be rediscovered...

[Jonas]

I know this is a stretch, but why dont the artists take it upon themselves to store their tapes? Especially such successful artists? I mean, we have all our tapes in a closet in our house...ofcourse, its only two rolls but I mean, its something!

[c-man]

I know this is a stretch, but why dont the artists take it upon themselves to store their tapes? Especially such successful artists? I mean, we have all our tapes in a closet in our house...ofcourse, its only two rolls but I mean, its something!

Because the record companies, who paid for the sessions AND the tapes themselves, own them.  In the Beach Boys' case, they won the rights to their post-1965 album masters when they settled their 1967 lawsuit with Capitol.

[Dr. Tim]

There are many stories of masters lost and found, or destroyed, in this regard the BB tape saga is not that unusual. 

Greatest loss:  Atlantic's masters for a long time were stored above a department store in Red Bank, NJ.  When the building burnt down, there they went.  Though apparently safeties were stored elsewhere so all those 1950 -1980 reissues are still coming, if a little bit hissy.

Next greatest loss: when MCA bought Motown they decided to discard all the mono 45 masters and all the LP master tapes to save space.  The stereo masters were, literally, dubbed to consumer 4-track reels with lots of bleed-through, and that's all they have now.  Which is why all the earlier Motown CD reissues stink, except for the "Big Box of Soul" Rhino put out in the 90s.  For that box, the compilers went to the old-time recording engineers, who were smart enough to make their own personal high-quality safeties of their handiwork over the years for their personal collections.  Those CD reissues sound great.

The Moody Blues' "Days of Future Passed" LP master was lost, though the mutlitracks survive.  So the most recent CD reissues are all distinctly different remixes from the LP version.

The original two-track mixdown of the Who's "Tommy" was rumored to have been destroyed, the earliest CDs were dubbed from safeties, and a digital remix was issued in the 90s.   But the LP master turned up a couple of years ago and was reissued on CD and LP.

King Crimson's first LP master has gone missing for some decades now, but in the Virgin tape vaults someone found the final mixdowns of all the tracks from the first LP.  This was not the original LP master - these reels were the next-to-last step in that process.   The final mixdowns were not yet joined/cross-faded into the final sequence.  So for the most recent anniversary reissue,  those joins and cross-fades were done digitally and issued on a HDCD disc.  Because these tracks were not dubbed down another generation for cross-fade purposes, they actually sound a bit cleaner and so this is probably the best way to hear that first album.

And now we have the new BB remixes done from just-discovered session reels no one thought still existed. So yes there is always hope.

[GroovinGarrett]

There are many stories of masters lost and found, or destroyed, in this regard the BB tape saga is not that unusual. 

Greatest loss:  Atlantic's masters for a long time were stored above a department store in Red Bank, NJ.  When the building burnt down, there they went.  Though apparently safeties were stored elsewhere so all those 1950 -1980 reissues are still coming, if a little bit hissy.

Next greatest loss: when MCA bought Motown they decided to discard all the mono 45 masters and all the LP master tapes to save space.  The stereo masters were, literally, dubbed to consumer 4-track reels with lots of bleed-through, and that's all they have now.  Which is why all the earlier Motown CD reissues stink, except for the "Big Box of Soul" Rhino put out in the 90s.  For that box, the compilers went to the old-time recording engineers, who were smart enough to make their own personal high-quality safeties of their handiwork over the years for their personal collections.  Those CD reissues sound great.

The Moody Blues' "Days of Future Passed" LP master was lost, though the mutlitracks survive.  So the most recent CD reissues are all distinctly different remixes from the LP version.

The original two-track mixdown of the Who's "Tommy" was rumored to have been destroyed, the earliest CDs were dubbed from safeties, and a digital remix was issued in the 90s.   But the LP master turned up a couple of years ago and was reissued on CD and LP.

King Crimson's first LP master has gone missing for some decades now, but in the Virgin tape vaults someone found the final mixdowns of all the tracks from the first LP.  This was not the original LP master - these reels were the next-to-last step in that process.   The final mixdowns were not yet joined/cross-faded into the final sequence.  So for the most recent anniversary reissue,  those joins and cross-fades were done digitally and issued on a HDCD disc.  Because these tracks were not dubbed down another generation for cross-fade purposes, they actually sound a bit cleaner and so this is probably the best way to hear that first album.

And now we have the new BB remixes done from just-discovered session reels no one thought still existed. So yes there is always hope.

Most of these scenarios aren't as drastic as you speculate them to be.

The Atlantic warehouse fire destroyed a great many multi-track session masters. The mono and stereo mixdown masters, album assembly reels, etc., were stored elsewhere and still exist.

MCA did not destroy Motown mono or stereo masters. Dubs of mono masters were made on to compilation reels for reference, but the masters were not destroyed. The extensive Hip-O sets were 90-95% from mono master tapes.

The 1967 stereo mixdown master of Days Of Future Passed was never lost, it is still in UMG's posession in England, as is a dub in UMG's vault in the US. The original stereo mixdown has been used as recently as the Time Traveller CD boxed set. There are two theories as to why the album was remixed in 1976; one is the stereo mixdown was damaged or worn, the other being to lift the layers of "murk" from the sound mix. Whichever one is true, the remix has become the band's preference and has been the basis for all reissues, LP and CD, since 1976.

The stereo mixdown master of Tommy was never "lost"....Pete Townsend had it the entire time.

[The Heartical Don]

Wasn't the master - it was the vocal multitrack (one track instruments/seven tracks vocals). Bruce told me that at Columbia, a converted theater, they stored the tapes in the old balcony, and in spring 1967, they basically emptied it wholesale into the company dumpster.

Whoever is responsible should be thrown in jail!! I mean maybe I could forgive them if it was "Cassius" Love Vs. "Sonny" Wilson, but Good Vibrations? Especially when it was such a recent hit as well

I can start crying when I hear these stories. Like what happened with the movie 'Greed' by Erich von Stroheim. He wanted to create a megamonster lasting, I think, 10 hours or so. But some big shot found that too long, and cut away abour 8 hours, and threw it away.

It is still a masterpiece, mind, but, em, it's been castrated nevertheless.

[Dr. Tim]

I don't think Groovin' Garrett and I are in any real disagreement.  Except for the Motown stuff: I was told the "discarded masters" story by one of the Mercury mastering engineers who, when he worked for MCA, had been tasked with making shinola from the sh*t, as he put it.   I would like to know more on the subsequent history (that's not a "prove it!" challenge, I just like to know this stuff).  Now maybe some of the higher-quality items turned up subsequently, and as I said the Rhino people happily pointed out that the recording engineers kept high-quality dubs of mono masters, so good source material existed, and now it is being used.  So far so good.   

The Atlantic info I got from one of their box sets, and I'm not surprised some of their masters were stored elsewhere, but certainly the session tapes are gone, hence no Coltrane or Ray Charles outtakes beyond what was located elsewhere.

I never said "Tommy" was lost, I said it was rumored to be lost, a rumor started by Kit Lambert himself back in the day.

If the "Days of Future Passed" mixdown got damaged, I can see the choice to remix, though as you say if there's a good safety dub they could have used that.  And if the band prefers the remix that's fine, just be aware it's different from the original LP.  Which it is.