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Author Topic: Pet Sounds AF Gold re-issue  (Read 9109 times)
JeffRetro
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« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2009, 08:32:24 PM »

The N.Y. tape was never used to master any of the LP variations of Pet Sounds and wasn't used to master anything until the CD era.

The NY tape was used on some of the green label LP pressings.

If true that's funny, 'cause Hoffman regards the ca. 1981 green label pressing of PS very highly, the best LP pressing of the album (prior to his own, of course).   Cool
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JeffRetro
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« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2009, 08:43:16 PM »


Thanks for the info. Are these dropouts obvious enough to be irritating or not really that noticeable unless you're paying close attention to them?

No, the dropouts aren't particularly noticeable unless you're listening for them.  They're definitely minor enough where Hoffman felt no need to fix them this time around.

IMHO this is easily the most accurate representation of the Pet Sounds master tape and the way it was heard when it was originally mastered in 1966.
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Bean Bag
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« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2009, 12:52:17 PM »

QUESTIONs...

1)  Is the AF mastered in HDCD?
2)  If so, I'm surprised.  Isn't Hoffman and crew anti-hdcd?  Something about HDCD being lower quality on non-hdcd players.

I personally like HDCD.  I have a HDCD-capable player...and I think there's a little more fullness and depth on the HDCD discs.  A little less flat...more 3-D.
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JeffRetro
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« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2009, 06:01:43 PM »

QUESTIONs...

1)  Is the AF mastered in HDCD?
2)  If so, I'm surprised.  Isn't Hoffman and crew anti-hdcd?  Something about HDCD being lower quality on non-hdcd players.

I personally like HDCD.  I have a HDCD-capable player...and I think there's a little more fullness and depth on the HDCD discs.  A little less flat...more 3-D.

Yes, the CD is HDCD encoded.  I know there are differing opinions as to whether the encoding affects the sound when played back on non-HDCD equipment, but the fact that both Hoffman and Linnett are reguarly using it makes me think it doesn't adversely affect it.  At least I've never noticed anything "wrong" while playing back any of Linnett's HDCD discs back on non-HDCD players.
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Bean Bag
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« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2009, 06:28:49 PM »

QUESTIONs...

1)  Is the AF mastered in HDCD?
2)  If so, I'm surprised.  Isn't Hoffman and crew anti-hdcd?  Something about HDCD being lower quality on non-hdcd players.

I personally like HDCD.  I have a HDCD-capable player...and I think there's a little more fullness and depth on the HDCD discs.  A little less flat...more 3-D.

Yes, the CD is HDCD encoded.  I know there are differing opinions as to whether the encoding affects the sound when played back on non-HDCD equipment, but the fact that both Hoffman and Linnett are reguarly using it makes me think it doesn't adversely affect it.  At least I've never noticed anything "wrong" while playing back any of Linnett's HDCD discs back on non-HDCD players.
I agree with your assessments as well - that playing HDCD discs on non-HDCD equipment is fine.  I just thought that it was the Hoffman-folks who railed against it.  Well, great I guess it's settled!
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wgolly
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« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2009, 07:14:42 PM »

QUESTIONs...

1)  Is the AF mastered in HDCD?
2)  If so, I'm surprised.  Isn't Hoffman and crew anti-hdcd?  Something about HDCD being lower quality on non-hdcd players.

I personally like HDCD.  I have a HDCD-capable player...and I think there's a little more fullness and depth on the HDCD discs.  A little less flat...more 3-D.

Yes, the CD is HDCD encoded.  I know there are differing opinions as to whether the encoding affects the sound when played back on non-HDCD equipment, but the fact that both Hoffman and Linnett are reguarly using it makes me think it doesn't adversely affect it.  At least I've never noticed anything "wrong" while playing back any of Linnett's HDCD discs back on non-HDCD players.
I agree with your assessments as well - that playing HDCD discs on non-HDCD equipment is fine.  I just thought that it was the Hoffman-folks who railed against it.  Well, great I guess it's settled!

yeah the hoffmen guys rail against alot of stuff they just don't understand; now hdcd is ok 'cause hoff does it.  furthermore, I would'nt take anything the man says with a grain of salt.

I still think the best version is the CATP vinyl twofer, but that's me, I've never heard a bad version of this album.
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Leo K
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« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2009, 01:46:41 AM »


I enjoy listening to the greenline Japanese CD, which I believe is a flat digital copy of the LA tape.  Not as warm and analog sounding as the DCC, but also not as murky, it's more detailed, musical instruments are easier to pick out, there's not as much bass as the DCC but some might see that as an improvement.  The selling point for me is Brian's vocals on the greenline sound so clear and distinct like he's singing to you in your room as you listen, a palpable presence that I don't get from the DCC or the AF.  But the sound is definitely more "digital" (early A/D converters no doubt).


You know, I really like the Greenline as well, the vocals sound great, and I can turn up the volume and the vocals are not harsh.  I really like this pressing for this reason, and for the reasons you mention...the greenline is still in the game as far as I'm concerned!

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The Heartical Don
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« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2009, 02:16:15 AM »

I always was happy with my 1971 brown-sleeved non-Cooper-Black single PS LP on Reprise (which is the same version as in the CATP/PS double set); until the stereo version came along. The 2006 (=2001?) Linett stereo mix has everything I need.
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Bean Bag
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« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2009, 07:59:34 AM »

I was able to hear some samplings of the AF version this week -- 192k mp3s -- and I have to say, I'm very impressed.  I can't wait until my AF CD arrives!!!!

I immediately noticed a far more 3 dimensional sound.  And as Leo K mentioned in relation to the Greenline, you don't have any of that harshness, and can turn it up, if you please, without that horrible blaring-thing happening.  The bass was pure and extended, the treble was light and clean and there was a wonderful smoothness and ease.  This will be my favorite version, BY FAR, I'm sure of that.  Note: I don't have the Greenline or DCC or any of the original LPs.

But with all the other versions I have, the sound is muffled and gritty.  And overly LOUD.  The recent ones (2001 mono/stereo and 2006 40th Anniversary) mainly....they also sound "Brickwalled" (to quote the AF label.)  And I never listen to them.  The 96 box set, single disc sounded best, but I'm sure the AF bests it.  I can't wait to compare.  I don't remember it sounding this clean and balanced.  But, from the mp3s I heard of this AF version, it sounds outstanding.  I haven't heard this album, or any Beach Boys album from their hey-day, sound this good.  That was a revelation to me.  I now want an AF Today! and Smiley Smile ...and all the other Capitol albums!!
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sly74
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« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2009, 01:38:13 PM »

I have had the AF for a few weeks now and it is indeed wonderful sounding. took a few listens to start hearing the increase in detail and overall appreciate it. with the HDCD, there isn't much difference, if any during playback with or without decoding. from what i can tell at least. i made a copy for my car, which contains the HDCD data, but it still sounds great.
i like it much more than the DCC disc that Steve Hoffman did years ago.  it's is definitely more balanced. even with the slight dropouts more noticeable on the AF, it's completely worth it. You really get the sense of the faders being adjusted at different moments,etc.
pick it up now if you can, i'm sure the price of used copies will go through the roof like the DCC has for many years!
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« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2009, 09:21:54 AM »

Again, I'm still sampling the mp3s I mentioned, but I'm noticing much more detail -- like reverb.  It sounds wetter and more lush.  There's those moments, like on That's not me, where Mike is bathed in that glorious echo chamber...and on I Just Wasn't Made for These Times when the background almost disappears and the vocals just wash over you...the added smoothness and depth allows the reverb to just sing!
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« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2009, 10:43:21 PM »

I have had the AF for a few weeks now and it is indeed wonderful sounding. took a few listens to start hearing the increase in detail and overall appreciate it. with the HDCD, there isn't much difference, if any during playback with or without decoding. from what i can tell at least. i made a copy for my car, which contains the HDCD data, but it still sounds great.
i like it much more than the DCC disc that Steve Hoffman did years ago.  it's is definitely more balanced. even with the slight dropouts more noticeable on the AF, it's completely worth it. You really get the sense of the faders being adjusted at different moments,etc.
pick it up now if you can, i'm sure the price of used copies will go through the roof like the DCC has for many years!

Your reccomendation put me over the top.  I just bought the AF for $32 on E-Bay.  Can't wait!!
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sly74
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« Reply #37 on: May 02, 2009, 09:38:57 PM »

I have had the AF for a few weeks now and it is indeed wonderful sounding. took a few listens to start hearing the increase in detail and overall appreciate it. with the HDCD, there isn't much difference, if any during playback with or without decoding. from what i can tell at least. i made a copy for my car, which contains the HDCD data, but it still sounds great.
i like it much more than the DCC disc that Steve Hoffman did years ago.  it's is definitely more balanced. even with the slight dropouts more noticeable on the AF, it's completely worth it. You really get the sense of the faders being adjusted at different moments,etc.
pick it up now if you can, i'm sure the price of used copies will go through the roof like the DCC has for many years!

Your reccomendation put me over the top.  I just bought the AF for $32 on E-Bay.  Can't wait!!

great! let us know what you think after a few listens.  Smiley
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« Reply #38 on: May 06, 2009, 04:55:56 AM »

Looking forward to this!

Just checked it out on Amazon, and once again I ask myself the question, why on earth do they bother with the 'bonus' track of 'Hang on to Your Ego?' We've all heard it a thousand times, the original version is one of the weaker tracks on the album, and it serves no-one to have it tagged on the end again, ruining the integrity of the album again... WHY??!!??  Shocked Shocked
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« Reply #39 on: May 06, 2009, 07:35:49 AM »

dud, chill; you could just stop the cd at that point.

Why is it a weak track, I don't get it.
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Bicyclerider
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« Reply #40 on: May 06, 2009, 11:16:49 AM »

If I was going to only have one bonus track, I'd prefer Trombone Dixie - in particular the unreleased Brian mono mix of the song that was discovered too late to include on the PS box. 

If I had to include Hang onto your ego - and I think the licensing of Pet Sounds by Steve and DCC and now AF somehow stipulates that this track is included, I don't think it was Steve's choice - I would have preferred the group vocal version to the Brian solo vocal version.
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JeffRetro
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« Reply #41 on: May 06, 2009, 04:39:17 PM »

If I was going to only have one bonus track, I'd prefer Trombone Dixie - in particular the unreleased Brian mono mix of the song that was discovered too late to include on the PS box. 

If I had to include Hang onto your ego - and I think the licensing of Pet Sounds by Steve and DCC and now AF somehow stipulates that this track is included, I don't think it was Steve's choice - I would have preferred the group vocal version to the Brian solo vocal version.

I don't think Steve had access to any vault material this time around other than what he had made transfers of back in late 1991 (remember, the source for this new AF issue is the analog copy he made of the L.A. master - with some bits from the N.Y. master - which was used for the 1993 DCC LP of "Pet Sounds").  The "Hang On To Your Ego" with a group vocal probably wasn't discovered until the 1993 box set was being put together (which is where it first appeared, right?), and the only mix of "Trombone Dixie" at the time was probably a digital mix, which Steve most likely would've never wanted to use anyway.

Did they find a contemporary (i.e. 1965-66) BW mono mix of TD?  I'm guessing if they have it hasn't appeared anywhere (yet).  Wink
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sly74
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« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2009, 07:19:59 AM »

Looking forward to this!

Just checked it out on Amazon, and once again I ask myself the question, why on earth do they bother with the 'bonus' track of 'Hang on to Your Ego?' We've all heard it a thousand times, the original version is one of the weaker tracks on the album, and it serves no-one to have it tagged on the end again, ruining the integrity of the album again... WHY??!!??  Shocked Shocked

i agree in not wanting to hear it after the album. i made a copy of the AF to play regularly in the car,etc to avoid possibly scratching the original. I left the bonus track off the copy. simple fix!
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Bicyclerider
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« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2009, 09:01:44 AM »

I don't think Steve had access to any vault material this time around other than what he had made transfers of back in late 1991 (remember, the source for this new AF issue is the analog copy he made of the L.A. master - with some bits from the N.Y. master - which was used for the 1993 DCC LP of "Pet Sounds").  The "Hang On To Your Ego" with a group vocal probably wasn't discovered until the 1993 box set was being put together (which is where it first appeared, right?), and the only mix of "Trombone Dixie" at the time was probably a digital mix, which Steve most likely would've never wanted to use anyway.

Did they find a contemporary (i.e. 1965-66) BW mono mix of TD?  I'm guessing if they have it hasn't appeared anywhere (yet).  Wink

Yes, they found a contemporary BW mono mix, unbooted and unreleased.  Wish they'd used it on the 40th anniversary PS!
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« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2009, 11:45:54 PM »

dud, chill; you could just stop the cd at that point.

Why is it a weak track, I don't get it.


Well is a matter of opinion of course but I just don't think its a good tack in either version, and it does damage the integrity of the album as a whole, as I suggested. Just think how the album should end and, how it does with HOTYE. Its pretty much a no brainer IMO. As Bicyclerider suggests TD would be a much better bonus, if there had to be a bonus, and there doesn't...
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« Reply #45 on: May 10, 2009, 08:14:51 AM »

First, a question for you folks who bought this.  Listening with either HDCD or not, can you hear all the tape splices go by?  I don't mean anything Hoffman or Linett did by way of repairs; these splices are inherent in the original LP master.  WIBN has several, coming at the end of each section, most prominently on the beat just before Mike's bridge.   The other prominent one is in GOK, just before Brian's doubled vocal introducing the coda.  You can hear phase cancellation as the tape goes over the playback head a little askew due to the effect of the splicing tape.  I can't avoid hearing them every time, but maybe this time Hoffman tried to make them less prominent?  Unless he couldn't.

I'm a big fan of HDCD, and one thing I learned is that it can be applied variably, to taste.  If it is applied too thickly it can make the non-HDCD version sound a bit squashed and hissy.  (See Emmy Lou Harris's "Wrecking Ball").  If properly done, you don't notice its absence on a non-HDCD player, but with HDCD playback you get more "oomph" in the overall sound.  (See the King Crimson HDCD remasters).  Mark Linett is very good at this.
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JeffRetro
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« Reply #46 on: May 10, 2009, 11:00:13 AM »

First, a question for you folks who bought this.  Listening with either HDCD or not, can you hear all the tape splices go by?  I don't mean anything Hoffman or Linett did by way of repairs; these splices are inherent in the original LP master.  WIBN has several, coming at the end of each section, most prominently on the beat just before Mike's bridge.   The other prominent one is in GOK, just before Brian's doubled vocal introducing the coda.  You can hear phase cancellation as the tape goes over the playback head a little askew due to the effect of the splicing tape.  I can't avoid hearing them every time, but maybe this time Hoffman tried to make them less prominent?  Unless he couldn't.

You can still hear the edits on the AF disc (and yes, the most prominent ones are still the ones in and out of the bridge of WIBN and at the beginning of the tag of GOK).

Possibly the least intrusive edits on these two songs are on the Greatest Hits Vol. 2 CD (remastered by Andrew Sandoval) for the simple fact that it's been EQ'd to more closely match the actual 45's and has the added effect of slightly deemphasizing the edits.
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