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Author Topic: Why Did the BB's Drag Brian Around on Tour?  (Read 10388 times)
Dancing Bear
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« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2009, 05:29:06 AM »

You see, even in 1978, there were shows where Brian was 'on fire'. Even in 1982. Brian's best MIU songs aren't worse, in general, than TLOS. I bet lots of fans found a way in their hearts to praise it in 1978 and hope for a better one next year. You can always see the positives, if you want to. Before we point fingers at the situation in the late seventies, let's think how 99-2009 will be seen in ten years or more.
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2009, 09:37:59 AM »

I didn't say he was cured! Cheesy

I guess I was looking for the positives. By the end of 1976 he was out from behind the keyboard and playing some bass. He did The Beach Boys Love You and Adult Child during this period. His voice improved considerably; MIU features some excellent vocals. He wasn't huge in 1978; I saw him in Philadelphia in June 1978. He lost about a hundred pounds; check him out on the 1979 Midnight Special. Some of the interviews in 1980 showed some lucidity and even humor. Maybe some of that sitting expressionless behind the piano was boredom, I don't know. I can't speak about the drug problems because I don't know the facts. I thought Landy kept them away in 1976 and Stan & Rocky served that role in 1977; I realize he was never totally clean. I'm more interested in that "breakdown" in late 1978, because I was really optimistic after Love You and MIU, then he was gone - again....

In 1978 he was bigger then 1977 for sure but I never thought he was huge until I saw film of . June 25 - The Meadowlands, East Rutherford NJ. That's the PM Magazine interview. He looks like 1975 Brian there and it's one of the first interviews I have seen where he doesn't seem to be there at all. Now you saw him earlier that week and say he looked fine. It's just inexplicable to me how he could bloat up so fast. By Midnight Special he looked pretty good again.

Because I respect your opinions - and I want to be in your book! police - I'm gonna nitpick with ya!

Seriously....I was near my peak fanaticism during those 1976-1981 years, and I lived (and died) on every new picture/sighting of Brian Wilson I could get. Remember, these were pre-internet and pre-759 cable TV channels, so you didn't get nearly as many looks. I was obsessed with Brian's "comeback", and I judged it (my own way) on his songwriting (15 Big Ones, Love You, and then MIU), his vocals (which were vastly improving; check out some of those late 1977 concerts), and his physical appearance.

I thought he looked great at the Labor Day 1977 Central Park concert, despite the gaudy American Spring shirt and those red bell-bottomed pants! His arms and thighs looked downright skinny. The next time I saw him was, I guess, on American Bandstand with Mike & Celebration, lipsynching (poorly) to "Almost Summer". He did look slightly heavier, but not "huge" by any means. And he looked exactly the same on June 20, 1978 (my first BB concert) at the Spectrum in Philadelphia. The show opened with "California Girls", with Brian wearing a blue Adidas sweatsuit - and playing a brown Fender bass! He was not "huge" there either. Off the top of my head, the only other pictures that come to mind around that time are those USC pictures with Celebration, Jan & Dean, and the cheerleaders. Brian was wearing cream colored pants and shirt. Again, while he wasn't skinny, he wasn't like 1974 or 1975. As we know, by 1979, he did get thinner.

Maybe we see him the same - but describe him differently? No big deal....
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Bean Bag
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« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2009, 09:48:56 AM »

While nice to see him in concert (I saw him sometime right before BWPSIt was great!) he's welcome to hang up the touring shoes -- if he wants to. I know I would want to.  Just do a show now and then, if need be.  It's good to make an appearance -- but touring is tough.

What he should and must do ( Grin) is continue to record.  I don't care what.  I'm a fan.   LOL  Whomever is "telling him" to record, or whether he wants to himself -- I think it's great.  That keeps him active and relating and contributing, which is healthy -- rather than just waiting to die.  I don't care if it's piano demos or full-blown productions.  I've been obsessed with TLOS recently, I love it...and I've rediscovered GIOMH, an album that I didn't get before.  I love it now!

To Dancing Bear's remark.."let's think how 99-2009 will be seen in ten years or more."  That's where I'm at brothers.  GIOMH is a rough little gem, like Love You to me now.  It's no different.  I love that it's all Brian doing the backgrounds.  I love that it's odd.  I just remembered that this was the same guy who did Love You.  It's another "discovered, lost album" from the Love You years to me.  That instantly helped me get over the "what Brian should be doing now" sickness.

Cause that's what it is.  It's a sickness.   Cheesy
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2009, 10:23:53 AM »

GIOMH is a rough little gem, like Love You to me now.  It's no different.

Beg to differ, but when Love You was released, the general reception was along the lines of "that's more like it", although I'll grant that some cocked their heads and went "huh ??". When GIOMH came out, the overwhelming fan and critical reaction was "WTF ??!?", and in my opinion, rightly so. We now know that Brian didn't select which tracks to record and almost certainly didn't have the final say regarding the mix (if my sources are correct... they've not failed me yet).

Love You is the rough gem... GIOMH is the diamond turned back into coal.
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« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2009, 10:35:24 AM »

I often wonder what it would be like if Brian wasn't touring in the 2000s, or recording, or writing. Would he still be mentally sound, enjoying himself, healthy, wealthy and wise? Or would it be a repeat of the bedroom years.
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« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2009, 10:41:52 AM »

He'd be probably wearing a beard.
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« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2009, 10:44:17 AM »

I agree about GIOMH, it really was a shame.  Here we could have seen Brian digging into his vaults and picking out his best stuff (Oh Lord for example) and just  making wonderful music.  The celeb cameos was of the time and would not have been missed by me either, but anyway.  I don't know what touring does for Brian these days, I just hope that if he continues to make music he is doing it because he wants to and the way he wants.  I know, no matter how much I love something, I wouldn't want to spend my whole life working.
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« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2009, 11:39:11 AM »

I felt the same way when GIOMH came out.  I thought it was sloppy and the songs were weak.  I was also confused on the timing.  Why was it released so close to BWPSWhy was it just tossed out there?  Weird.

But putting on my BW-colored glasses -- or really my 1977, bearded Brian Wilson glasses -- I get it.  This works wonders for all of Brian's solo work for me!  Yay!

It's easy to be critical -- Imagination is too slick, GIOMH is a mess, BW88 is too 80s or too Landy.  Whatever.  I think that's a crappy way to look at it.  The same guy who made Love You made GIOMH , made "TLOS" -- and I can totally envision that Brian making those albums.

It's easy to see the older Brian today as being propped up, dressed by his wife and his ego-stroked by David Leaf -- being forced to be someone he's not.  All of that may be true.  But so is what I'm saying.  That odd "McDonald's hamburger for every new song" is the only Brian we have left.  Or some variation of it.  Occasionally we even get 60s glimpses -- but really the late 70s "Brian is Back" -- "the performing circus bear" -- is who he is.

That's not changing.





I guess I'm saying I like that Brian.   Grin
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2009, 12:01:07 PM »

The same guy who made Love You made GIOMH , made "TLOS" -- and I can totally envision that Brian making those albums.

It's OK that you like GIOMH while it is a generally "panned" album. Liking or disliking an album is a matter of opinion; you like chocolate ice cream and I like vanilla ice cream.

But, you're really going out on a limb when you say that the Brian who made Love Love You is the same guy who made GIOMH and TLOS. That is not as much of an "opinion". That was 30 years ago. He ain't the same Brian. I wish creatively he was more like that Brian, but I don't think he is. Oh, I don't know him; do any of us know him? That part of the equation is an opinion. I guess all we have to go by are the interviews. Take a look at the Brian Wilson who made Love You in late 1976, and then take a look at the Brian Wilson from 2004 -2009. Do you think that's the same guy? Creatively?
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« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2009, 12:04:14 PM »

I thought it was sloppy and the songs were weak.  I was also confused on the timing.  Why was it released so close to BWPSWhy was it just tossed out there?

Because it was part of the package - "you want BWPS, you gotta have this too". The original release date was January 2004, but everyone that heard it passed on it. Tell you something ? Like, they also thought it was sloppy and the songs were weak ?
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« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2009, 12:07:10 PM »

Do you think that's the same guy? Creatively?

Yeah.  Here man...try these.  They're my 1977, bearded Brian Wilson glasses.  They're awesome.
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« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2009, 02:10:01 PM »

I didn't say he was cured! Cheesy

I guess I was looking for the positives. By the end of 1976 he was out from behind the keyboard and playing some bass. He did The Beach Boys Love You and Adult Child during this period. His voice improved considerably; MIU features some excellent vocals. He wasn't huge in 1978; I saw him in Philadelphia in June 1978. He lost about a hundred pounds; check him out on the 1979 Midnight Special. Some of the interviews in 1980 showed some lucidity and even humor. Maybe some of that sitting expressionless behind the piano was boredom, I don't know. I can't speak about the drug problems because I don't know the facts. I thought Landy kept them away in 1976 and Stan & Rocky served that role in 1977; I realize he was never totally clean. I'm more interested in that "breakdown" in late 1978, because I was really optimistic after Love You and MIU, then he was gone - again....

In 1978 he was bigger then 1977 for sure but I never thought he was huge until I saw film of . June 25 - The Meadowlands, East Rutherford NJ. That's the PM Magazine interview. He looks like 1975 Brian there and it's one of the first interviews I have seen where he doesn't seem to be there at all. Now you saw him earlier that week and say he looked fine. It's just inexplicable to me how he could bloat up so fast. By Midnight Special he looked pretty good again.

Because I respect your opinions - and I want to be in your book! police - I'm gonna nitpick with ya!

Seriously....I was near my peak fanaticism during those 1976-1981 years, and I lived (and died) on every new picture/sighting of Brian Wilson I could get. Remember, these were pre-internet and pre-759 cable TV channels, so you didn't get nearly as many looks. I was obsessed with Brian's "comeback", and I judged it (my own way) on his songwriting (15 Big Ones, Love You, and then MIU), his vocals (which were vastly improving; check out some of those late 1977 concerts), and his physical appearance.

I thought he looked great at the Labor Day 1977 Central Park concert, despite the gaudy American Spring shirt and those red bell-bottomed pants! His arms and thighs looked downright skinny. The next time I saw him was, I guess, on American Bandstand with Mike & Celebration, lipsynching (poorly) to "Almost Summer". He did look slightly heavier, but not "huge" by any means. And he looked exactly the same on June 20, 1978 (my first BB concert) at the Spectrum in Philadelphia. The show opened with "California Girls", with Brian wearing a blue Adidas sweatsuit - and playing a brown Fender bass! He was not "huge" there either. Off the top of my head, the only other pictures that come to mind around that time are those USC pictures with Celebration, Jan & Dean, and the cheerleaders. Brian was wearing cream colored pants and shirt. Again, while he wasn't skinny, he wasn't like 1974 or 1975. As we know, by 1979, he did get thinner.

Maybe we see him the same - but describe him differently? No big deal....

Actually I agree with you for the most part on this post, it's just that P.M. Magazine film that throws me off. Have you seen it? I swear he looks awful in it.
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MBE
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« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2009, 02:28:03 PM »

I think a better title for this thread would be why is Brian dragged out on tour? I mean honestly. The first two years of solo tours it was new and he seemed fairly into it. Pet Sounds, Smile, and TLOS were valid musical efforts on stage. I strongly feel Brian should not have done non thematic tours after 2001 or so. If he goes on the road any more I hope he has a creative reason. He hasn't been what you call a real at ease performer since when 1970?

Recording and playing music is something I can't see him stopping completely. The 88 solo LP was OK when he had the right people in there with him. SI, Imagination, GIOMH, Orange Crate Art, IJWMFTT soundtrack all of these weren't worth much. I think you may be able to get a short 10 track LP or CD of quality if you combine them all. The Paley sessions, BWPS, TLOS, and I'll even say the Xmas LP were all enjoyable , but was Brian really getting to call the shots? Artistically I hope glad those recordings exist, I just hope Brian got something out of recording them. I feel he did but the way he is told what he is going to be doing still makes me uneasy.
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« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2009, 07:10:50 PM »

It's no secret that last summer he was in a very bad place: the Kenwood show very nearly never happened (and as it was a truly terrible performance, that might not have been such a bad thing).

Andrew, what was going on last summer?
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urbanite
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« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2009, 07:25:25 PM »

I read that Brian enjoyed traveling with a bunch of guys around the world, I know I would.  Maybe he doesn't enjoy the pressure of performing, but perhaps traveling the world appeals to him.
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« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2009, 08:36:26 PM »

Beg to differ, but when Love You was released, the general reception was along the lines of "that's more like it", although I'll grant that some cocked their heads and went "huh ??".

Well, it depends what you mean by "general reception".  Reception within Beach Boys fandom, maybe -- but in the wider world, the Beach Boys followed up their highest-charting album in a decade with their lowest-charting since "Sunflower" bombed.

Dunno if that's a "huh?" or just a shrug, but it's hardly a sign that people in general thought that was more like it!  "Love You" is very much an album for the cult base -- in some ways liking it defines that cult base...

Cheers,
Jon Blum
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« Reply #41 on: April 13, 2009, 08:44:56 PM »

True... but my impression is that Brian would be happier had not touring, Pet Sounds live & BWPS been 'suggested' to him.

I can buy that some of the touring is a drag for Brian.

But I can't buy that never touring Smile would have left him happier overall.  Yes, it was hugely scary and confronting at first, no one denies that -- but his confidence level and creative output both leapt up a notch in its wake.  After years in which he only seemed to be writing one song ("How Can We Still Be Dancing"), suddenly we got an album-and-a-half's-worth of demos -- developed with a member of that touring band who he'd built up a good relationship with -- which sound more like a guy having fun in the studio than anything we've heard for decades...

Cheers,
Jon Blum
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« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2009, 08:47:17 PM »

Beg to differ, but when Love You was released, the general reception was along the lines of "that's more like it", although I'll grant that some cocked their heads and went "huh ??".

Well, it depends what you mean by "general reception".  Reception within Beach Boys fandom, maybe -- but in the wider world, the Beach Boys followed up their highest-charting album in a decade with their lowest-charting since "Sunflower" bombed.

Dunno if that's a "huh?" or just a shrug, but it's hardly a sign that people in general thought that was more like it!  "Love You" is very much an album for the cult base -- in some ways liking it defines that cult base...

Cheers,
Jon Blum
Today I think many people like Love You that aren't big Beach Boys fans. People into alternative music probably dig it. Am I the only hard core fan that still thinks its mediocre?
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Jason
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« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2009, 08:59:26 PM »

Brian was just another victim of metabolism. Besides, what circus is fun without a fat man on stage? Smiley

If I'm walking funny tomorrow it's because I got raped by Clay and Mr. Blum. Smiley
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Jonathan Blum
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« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2009, 09:10:20 PM »

Because it was part of the package - "you want BWPS, you gotta have this too". The original release date was January 2004, but everyone that heard it passed on it. Tell you something ? Like, they also thought it was sloppy and the songs were weak ?

Course, they thought that about "Holland" too.  :-)

I can easily see the labels thinking that GIOMH was completely uncommercial, but I'm not sure how much of that was an artistic judgement and how much a business one, given that it was the five-years-later followup to an album which peaked at #88, from an artist who was no doubt asking for a significant advance on royalties the label might never recoup, and which didn't have obvious-AC-hit-single written on any of its tracks.

And yes, I can see how people can feel that it's a flawed, inconsistent, rough-hewn and sometimes slapdash album... but I can't see how that makes it different from "Love You"!  "Unpolished gem" was the best we could hope for from Brian any time in the previous thirty years.

Cheers,
Jon Blum
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« Reply #45 on: April 13, 2009, 09:12:11 PM »

I gotta admit, the GIOMH/Love You comparison is probably the best way to consider the former album. It really makes sense. Rough as hell, basically piss poor vocals...maybe I need to re-evaluate GIOMH.
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« Reply #46 on: April 13, 2009, 09:46:32 PM »

suddenly we got an album-and-a-half's-worth of demos -- developed with a member of that touring band who he'd built up a good relationship with

I may be misreading this, but if you're referring to Darian's input to the GIOMH sessions, it was close to non-existant. He told me the only track he's on is "Desert Drive" - and that was recorded in fall 2002.
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« Reply #47 on: April 13, 2009, 10:49:53 PM »

I may be misreading this, but if you're referring to Darian's input to the GIOMH sessions, it was close to non-existant. He told me the only track he's on is "Desert Drive" - and that was recorded in fall 2002.

I assumed Jonathan was referring to TLOS?
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« Reply #48 on: April 14, 2009, 04:41:25 AM »

I want to know what Brian's band's feelings are about all of this. I think the general consensus is that they respect Brian and want what's best for him, and that they're good people. So if he's unhappy touring and recording, why are they taking part?
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« Reply #49 on: April 14, 2009, 06:49:55 AM »

I gotta admit, the GIOMH/Love You comparison is probably the best way to consider the former album. It really makes sense. Rough as hell, basically piss poor vocals...maybe I need to re-evaluate GIOMH.

In my opinion GIOMH does have a lot more in common with M.I.U., KTSA, or even BW88. Whatever the real circumstances, Love You sounds like the product of one single creative burst by an enthusiastic, if mighty troubled artist, whereas GIOMH seems patchy, forced, and uninspired. There's also too much of a difference between a sloppy yet highly committed and lively vocal performance by 1977 Brian and the ones we got to hear on most of GIOMH.
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