1990 vs. 2001 Re-issues - the Great Debate

[The Heartical Don]

...ahem, perhaps this has been a topic for, um, 8 years now... I have the 1990 remasters (the two-fers, Euro pressings) and am quite comfortable with them. Also, I have the Brother single disks on Epic (not all of them, mind, I stopped with 'Love You'). And I have a couple of the Brother two-fers (e.g. S/SU and 15BO/LY).

What is the general consensus on the quality of the remasterings? I am quite surprised to read that the more recent ones have their own shortcomings (EQ, harshness of tone). I am very allergic to overdoses of compression (that is why I seldom play Springsteen's 'Magic', it has that weird AOR adult rock sound, with no real dynamics, and Clemons' sax seems to drown in the overall sound all of the time).

I need enlightenment. Do the Capitol disks up to S/SU have their own merits in the 2001 format?

[Jason]

The 2001 remasters are certainly LOUDER, while the 1990 ones are NR'd. The bonus tracks on the 1990 and 2001 reissues that weren't single releases are different mixes on both.

The 1990 ones are pretty decent, great for the time. The 2001 ones certainly have more to hear (literally). I'd keep both.

[The Heartical Don]

The 2001 remasters are certainly LOUDER, while the 1990 ones are NR'd. The bonus tracks on the 1990 and 2001 reissues that weren't single releases are different mixes on both.

The 1990 ones are pretty decent, great for the time. The 2001 ones certainly have more to hear (literally). I'd keep both.

I did not know about the different mixes! Which indeed might lead me to buy a couple more 2001 '60s material, I am thinking SS/WH and F/2020, and SDSN/TD.

Nice thing to know, thanks.

[chris.metcalfe]

If you're happy with the 1990 ones, keep them. On my system the 2001s are definitely more detailed in a positive way, especially the HDCD 60s ones (since I have a compatible player). My only real gripe with the 1990 issues was that some of the booklet material (Party and Friends) got transposed! Major proof-reading c*ck-up. A bigger gripe with the 2001 booklets, though, would be that they were unchanged from 1990. And the great disappointment when they came out was to do with the lack of new bonus cuts, continued twoferisation etc. Sound is fine though as stated, with source failings more pronounced as you would expect.

[The Heartical Don]

If you're happy with the 1990 ones, keep them. On my system the 2001s are definitely more detailed in a positive way, especially the HDCD 60s ones (since I have a compatible player). My only real gripe with the 1990 issues was that some of the booklet material (Party and Friends) got transposed! Major proof-reading c*ck-up. A bigger gripe with the 2001 booklets, though, would be that they were unchanged from 1990. And the great disappointment when they came out was to do with the lack of new bonus cuts, continued twoferisation etc. Sound is fine though as stated, with source failings more pronounced as you would expect.

Hi Chris, tks. If I may ask, what type of CD HDCD player do you have? I'm looking for an inexpensive 2nd hand one, since I already have a very decent player (NAD). I'm looking for a NAD (541i or suchlike) or a Rotel 951 or 971.

[Bicyclerider]

A big question mark is if the HDCD encoding make the 01 releases sound significantly better (in terms of EQ and compression) when played through an HDCD player, and conversely if the HDCD encoding in any way makes the CD's sound WORSE on a non HDCD player.  I have never been able to determine the answers to these questions, as I don't know anyone with an HdCD player.

Not all of the bonus track were remixed - only a handful.  Off the top of my head, Baker Man, I Do, and Ol Folks at Home/Old Man River.  Plus Mark included extra "hidden" bonus tracks at the ends of the CD's (just let the final track play to it's conclusion) - studio chatter, vocal only snippets, etc.  so the fanatic needs BOTH re issues, unfortunately.

[The Heartical Don]

A big question mark is if the HDCD encoding make the 01 releases sound significantly better (in terms of EQ and compression) when played through an HDCD player, and conversely if the HDCD encoding in any way makes the CD's sound WORSE on a non HDCD player.  I have never been able to determine the answers to these questions, as I don't know anyone with an HdCD player.

Not all of the bonus track were remixed - only a handful.  Off the top of my head, Baker Man, I Do, and Ol Folks at Home/Old Man River.  Plus Mark included extra "hidden" bonus tracks at the ends of the CD's (just let the final track play to it's conclusion) - studio chatter, vocal only snippets, etc.  so the fanatic needs BOTH re issues, unfortunately.

Despite your post being equivocal, it actually contains a lot of interest to me, cheers for that!

[Awesoman]

...ahem, perhaps this has been a topic for, um, 8 years now... I have the 1990 remasters (the two-fers, Euro pressings) and am quite comfortable with them. Also, I have the Brother single disks on Epic (not all of them, mind, I stopped with 'Love You'). And I have a couple of the Brother two-fers (e.g. S/SU and 15BO/LY).

What is the general consensus on the quality of the remasterings? I am quite surprised to read that the more recent ones have their own shortcomings (EQ, harshness of tone). I am very allergic to overdoses of compression (that is why I seldom play Springsteen's 'Magic', it has that weird AOR adult rock sound, with no real dynamics, and Clemons' sax seems to drown in the overall sound all of the time).

I need enlightenment. Do the Capitol disks up to S/SU have their own merits in the 2001 format?

I prefer the 2001 remasters.  And a lot of those tracks (primarily the post-Capitol stuff) has had further remastering treatment when they appear on various compilations. 

[Andreas]

The debate ended for me when I found the Japanese Pastmasters CDs. These are my favorite sources for the 1960s albums (except Pet Sounds).

[The Heartical Don]

The debate ended for me when I found the Japanese Pastmasters CDs. These are my favorite sources for the 1960s albums (except Pet Sounds).

Are these still available?

[Andreas]

The debate ended for me when I found the Japanese Pastmasters CDs. These are my favorite sources for the 1960s albums (except Pet Sounds).

Are these still available?

They were released in 1989 and have been out of print at least for 10 years, probably more.

[chris.metcalfe]

A big question mark is if the HDCD encoding make the 01 releases sound significantly better (in terms of EQ and compression) when played through an HDCD player, and conversely if the HDCD encoding in any way makes the CD's sound WORSE on a non HDCD player.  I have never been able to determine the answers to these questions, as I don't know anyone with an HdCD player.

Not all of the bonus track were remixed - only a handful.  Off the top of my head, Baker Man, I Do, and Ol Folks at Home/Old Man River.  Plus Mark included extra "hidden" bonus tracks at the ends of the CD's (just let the final track play to it's conclusion) - studio chatter, vocal only snippets, etc.  so the fanatic needs BOTH re issues, unfortunately.

They shouldn't sound any worse than if they hadn't got HDCD added. They sound fine to me on a non-HDCD player but I don't have the 1990 issues any more to compare directly. I do still have the individual Caribou issues of the early 70s albums though (Sunflower through Holland) and those aren't as good as the 2001s - I just kept them for the sleeves.

Heartical, since you asked I've had a Naim player since 1999. I don't think the chips are widely used anymore since Microsoft bought out the company (I think this discussion has been done here before!). Rotel still have one available which would undoubtedly sound excellent - go for it. http://www.rotel.com/UK/products/ProductDetails.htm?Id=24

[Andreas]

They shouldn't sound any worse than if they hadn't got HDCD added. They sound fine to me on a non-HDCD player but I don't have the 1990 issues any more to compare directly.

Undecoded peak extension, which was used on the HDCD remasters, causes unnecessary compression.

[sockittome]

Windows Media Player decodes HDCD, so if you play them on your computer and your speakers aren't crap (like mine) you should be able to hear the benefits.  Right?

[Andreas]

Windows Media Player decodes HDCD, so if you play them on your computer and your speakers aren't crap (like mine) you should be able to hear the benefits.  Right?

Yes, you would hear the benefits over undecoded playback.

[The Heartical Don]

Windows Media Player decodes HDCD, so if you play them on your computer and your speakers aren't crap (like mine) you should be able to hear the benefits.  Right?

Yes, you would hear the benefits over undecoded playback.

Keep it rolling, guys (for some reason the WAF is not high in these topics). I just saw that the Cyberhome 635S DVD-player is available for beer money 2nd hand. It was designed to give good DVD and CD playback, and is perhaps the only machine that can read everything (including DVD-A, SACD, MP3, and of course HDCD). If you look around, it can be had for the equivalent of $ 40. And the benefit of it all is that you can hook it up to a good amp and speakers directly.

[mrski]

I bought the first set of 1990 2fers...

At the time I noticed that there was a glich on "Live In London" during Mike's 'introduction' to Do It Again...

Originally on the vinyl he said something along the lines of, "... it's nice to be back in London again oh boy!", but on the 2fer this came out as, "it's nice to be back in Lon again oh boy!"...

I asked someone else at the time who had also bought the Cd and found out that their copy was the same, (ie. most likely I didn't just pick up a faulty copy.)

When the 2fers were reissued in 2001, was this glich corrected?

[The Heartical Don]

I bought the first set of 1990 2fers...

At the time I noticed that there was a glich on "Live In London" during Mike's 'introduction' to Do It Again...

Originally on the vinyl he said something along the lines of, "... it's nice to be back in London again oh boy!", but on the 2fer this came out as, "it's nice to be back in Lon again oh boy!"...

I asked someone else at the time who had also bought the Cd and found out that their copy was the same, (ie. most likely I didn't just pick up a faulty copy.)

When the 2fers were reissued in 2001, was this glich corrected?

Wasn't 'Lon' Mike's girlfriend at the time?