Where have you gone, Bicycle Rider?

[guitarfool2002]

Ask about the 20+ takes of I'm In Great Shape apparently found in the vaults a few years ago...

And wonder where Brian's Sony Porta-Pak video footage is from late '66, when Sony gifted him the video setup and Brian shot footage of Smile-era goings-on.

Someone years ago mentioned Smile "demos", but never got any further than that.

And the KHJ channel 9 television dance show where Brian was on live to premiere Good Vibrations...rumored not to exist at all but so have other TV things that have surfaced, like original open reel *color* videotape of Johnny Carson's Tonight Show in the early 60's, copies given to workers and associates. I think it was on Sam Riddle's show "9th Street West", but I could be remembering that wrong.

And any airchecks of KHJ from the summer '67 Heroes era would be so welcome...one featuring the song turned up scoped which was recorded probably days after the on-air refusal from Tom Maule to play the record which Brian had brought to the station.

And any Vegetables-related footage, like photos of the Blaine-Brian pool match shot by Guy Webster...

And the film which was being shot at a Good Vibrations studio session by "Bob"...


So much out there to find, I just wish I hadn't been listing those exact same lost/missing items more or less for at least 4 years now to no avail. At all. Still fun to wish, though.

[Sheriff John Stone]

guitarfool2002, you are "wishing" for these things, but the bigger question is, why is Brian's camp not pursuing EVERY piece of SMiLE-related material available?

In reading numerous interviews from Brian over the years, it's obvious he doesn't look back very often, doesn't really discuss his past work in depth, and, especially with SMiLE, doesn't like to go there. But why isn't anybody else?

Nobody disputes the greatness of SMiLE, including Brian. He knows its greatness. But, does he/they know its IMPORTANCE. I don't think so. Just take Paul McCartney for example. What if Paul or The Beatles composed and recorded a year's worth of material that was considered to be their best work, and legendary. Don't you think Paul would want to have all of it. Don't you think he would want people to hear it. It wouldn't have to be Paul's job to search for and compile it. Somebody like a Paul McCartney could easily employ someone to accomplish that task.

And so could Brian Wilson. I know Brian didn't make a lot of money in his solo career, but he's still loaded. How much would it cost to employ an individual to research and acquire ALL SMiLE-related material out there? Why isn't somebody related to Brian - family or businesswise - interested in pursuing this? Kind of like James Guercio did with Pacific Ocean Blue after all those years. Isn't SMiLE THAT important? To anybody? I'd do it. And I'd work cheap, and give 100%

[guitarfool2002]

guitarfool2002, you are "wishing" for these things, but the bigger question is, why is Brian's camp not pursuing EVERY piece of SMiLE-related material available?

I have been "wishing" for these things for years now, and the wish list only got longer as more info and evidence came out.

But honestly Sheriff, what has come out of any interest since Hawthorne some 7-8 years ago or whatever it was? And even that was mostly devoid of Smile material and what was included was new edits of tapes that would have been more compelling if left alone.

And nothing happens! Even with a project that would have opened the vaults and sold access to some gems online, the whole thing eventually stalled out and is *still* a dead end as far as we know.

Wishing for this stuff and having little or nothing present itself for over 4 years is why I really can't get hopes too high for something like you describe to happen. It's the same reasons why something compelling like "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" has still not been released officially...not including the remake which won a Grammy.

[buddhahat]

So, everyone's is 99,9% sure that what's circulating out there is all we are ever going to listen to or know about Smile. That's all. I'd rather debate Bambu or the MIU sessions.

That's quite a definitive statement.  And yet, a very credible poster to this very board has heard Smile material that has not been booted or released.  I certainly don't know all the details, but I recall reading about a version of H&V he heard that included a section of With Me Tonight with bells & whistles overdubs.  But you're 99.9% sure that the rest of us will never hear this?  How can you be so confident?

That's great to think an alternative version of H&V does, allegedly, exist. Did anyone grill that guy about what form that version actually took i.e. where With Me Tonight sat in the overall structure of the song?

That's the one Smile song I'd really love to hear in different incarnations. One incorporating Great Shape and Barnyard would probably be top of my list.

[Sam_BFC]

Isn't SMiLE THAT important? To anybody?

YES YES YES

[Cal]

Also a few years back John Hunt from the SMILE SHOP was working on a book about SMILE outtakes with Doug Sulpy that was (from what I understood) to be like Doug's "910's GUIDE TO BEATLES OUTTAKES" books -- that would incorpoate every SMILE session tape available and correspond it to the best available sounding version on bootleg for us collectors. Has anyone  since, attempted to do this,--possibly online since the Hunt/Sulpy book never was completed?

Yes, I have. Recently. For archival/catalog purposes.

Is this available for us to access or can it be made available?

Thanking in advance!

Regards,
Cal aka "Beatle Bob"

[Chris Moise]

I know others feel differently, but for me BWPS didn't provide any "closure" at all.  If anything, it only raised more questions, and didn't really answer much of anything.  So anything new found from the original sessions at this point would be at the top of my list of things I would want to hear.

Well said. I was expecting some closure from BWPS but as you said it didn't really answer much at all. After all of the BWPS activity we still don't know what IIGS was, what the '66 lyrics of CIFOTM were. I guess we know what the Look/I Ran melody line was (assuming it is vintage, it sounds that way to me) but we don't know if it had lyrics.

IIRC Alan Boyd has said here that there he is certain or nearly certain that there are acetates known to exist that have unheard material. Then there is the stuff we have sourced from poor dubs of acetates that sounds awful. Wasn't the Brian edit of the CITFOTM backing track on an early lineup of Endless Harmony or Hawthorne? If so there must be a good sounding copy in existence. What we have is fairly poor..

[Dove Nested Towers]

I think we will hear more eventually, just not anytime soon.  Like Todd said, its likely that the remaining "undiscovered" pieces that we haven't heard are in trusted hands, and not in consideration for any public release at the moment. 

I think there will come a point where a Smile Sessions box set is assembled, and it will include stuff we've never heard before, but that won't happen until Brian is gone.

I hope you're right (hope it happens before he is gone though), and that will indeed be a day to "celebrate the news"! (Not referring to his passing, of course). Great passion here, people. There will be no true closure until every piece of substantive Smile music that still exists on the face of this earth has been heard! Let no turn remain unstoned!!

[Bicyclerider]

I've wondered what became of the Vigotone stuff too.  According to this article, he cooperated and turned over all his material but I've never heard of any specific tapes being recovered.  It seems like Alan Boyd or others would have mentioned it if they got anything back. 

I always thought that the SECRET SMILE bootleg set incorporated most of what Vigotone had to offer (that would have been new to bootleg in their SMILE box that never made it out)?


Regards,
Cal aka "Beatle Bob"

My understanding is that the vigotone guy was in contact with someone (I believe the same someone who popped up occasionally on the old Smile message board) that had the tapes for the Smile box set, and that he was only given what was released on Heroes and Vibrations.  It never got to the point of his having the tapes and preparing the box set.

I also believe that most of what would have been on the box set was on Archaeology, and that would have been combined with what had already been released on Vigotone and other boots.  Much of the secret smile stuff did not come to light until well after the Vigotone operation had been shut down.

[SG7]

It is simply a subject that has been beaten to death.