Where have you gone, Bicycle Rider?

[Sheriff John Stone]

Then I guess that would rule out David Leaf as producer. You know, his documentaries are pretty good, actually. Have you seen some of them? But, with Brian Wilson and SMiLE, you know how that's gonna come out. I wonder if it would be tough for David Leaf to turn a SMiLE documentary over to somebody other than himself.

[DAMAGED]

And if there's anything substantive left in the vault, one would have to assume they're keeping a tight lid on it these days in light of all the tapes that have been copied, stolen, or misplaced in the past.

Stolen tapes, thats what disturbs me the most. We may have boots of these tapes, but we may not. And if thats so, we're even less likely to ever hear them.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

I also think that you have to take into account that alot of people haven't heard absolutely everything that's already available. For example, how long has the 'I'm In Great Shape' session been available? A couple of years, and I've only heard it for the first time a couple of months ago. The same goes with 'Tones',  'All Day',  'Little Red Book'. And aren't 'Cabinessence' sessions around? I haven't even listened to those.

[Bicyclerider]

I'm still here.

My understanding of the what unreleased songs you want to hear post was what unreleased songs that we KNOW EXIST in the BB vaults do we want to hear.

There is very little in the vaults left that has not been released "unofficially" from Smile, at least according to the tape vault search done a few years ago by Alan.  Doesn't mean stuff won't turn up in the future, but if we want to petition for something to be released, I'd like to request tapes I know are there.

For me, I want EVERY alternate sax overdub, instrumental take, vocal session, alternate mix, acetate, burp and fart from the Smile sessions released, officially.

[petsite]

I have heard ALOT of the SMILE stuff, both offical and unoffical, as well as alot of stuff that isn't out there yet. What is left is alot of "variations on a theme" kind of stuff. Worms with this kind of drum hit verus that. Try playing you rviolin like this....oh that sounded bad never mind kind of stuff.

When I was but a puppy (in my teens and 20's), I could listen to this stuff forever. And I mean forever. There were people I knew who would listen to newly leaked stuff with a pen and pad to write down what they were hearing. But now at 50, I can't do it. But also, having heard most of it, it all runs together.

But hey, give me something new, and I am like a kid again, listening, punching rewind, listening again.....and again....and again......

[TonyW]

Hmmm, reading through this has jolted my memory: After the SOT Smile set was released the Vigotone people (person) were preparing their own SMiLE box set which was rumoured (I stress rumoured) to have unheard SMiLE pieces. Vigotone released the Heroes & Vibrations set as a teaser and then they got busted. Does anybody know what happened to the Vigo SMiLE stuff? Is that what ended up on Archaeology?

[petsite]

The All Day / Great Shape/ Cabinessce tapes hve been around since about 2000. As for the Vigotone stuff,  who knows? But it wasn't on Archology. Those tracks had been around forever.

[?]

I've wondered what became of the Vigotone stuff too.  According to this article, he cooperated and turned over all his material but I've never heard of any specific tapes being recovered.  It seems like Alan Boyd or others would have mentioned it if they got anything back. 

[petsite]

This is just my personal view, not from any thing I know first hand. But with very rare exceptions, most of the tapes that leak are copies and not originals. And there have been times when copies that former engineers have made of tracks (and not bootleged them) have been the only copy able to be found for certain tracks. I know for sure that the version of Wonderful on the 93 boxset with Brian singing lead came from a safety copy of the SMiLE tracks that a former engineer made for his own enjoyment, nothing more. In fact, he gave that reel to BRI so they (and now we) could enjoy this track.

And remember that 2 CD set of Beatles BBC appearances that came out right before the Anthology set back in 1993? The BBC and EMI had destroyed their copies of several tapes and put the word out to collector for help. Many of the tracks were found that way as the BBC shows were sent to BBC outlets in places like INDIA on LP. And collectors sought out those LPs which the stations would just file away.

So illigeal manufacturing of someone's copyright material is always bad. But collectors sometimes care more than the record companies about their own artist.

As a side note, remember the 1981 BW rarities LP from Austrailia? It was sourced totally from viynl, except the version of what'd i say. So it's a record copied from other records.

[Dove Nested Towers]

I would like to put two cents (more or less) in here, because this is a very interesting thread.

There is a difference between a barely audible nuance in the (instrument of choice) solo in the
31st take of a given SMiLE track or session and an entirely unheard snippet, however short or
insubstantial. There is an atmosphere, vibe, what have you that permeates the original mater-
ial that is uniquely compelling, and makes EVERY new revelation of previously unheard material,
however fragmentary, irreplaceably exciting. This is from someone who appreciates all the
group's (better) music, not with a single-minded, obsessive SMiLE-only fixation.

Not to be politically incorrect (heaven forbid), but when one of the more recent boots came out,
with previously booted tracks but with more instrumentation added than the takes previously available, I
remember getting a familiar shiver, which can come only from hearing freshly discovered SMiLE stuff, from the "Child is Father of the Man, early version", especially the tag. Those little groups of material that seem to leak every few years are priceless, and maybe it shouldn't be discussed here, but are
Secret Smile and Big Grin recent releases that contain small but delicately gorgeous revelations of this kind?

Maybe it won't happen until Brian is no longer with us (may that day be far away) but whether
BWPS is the last word that the principals will ever have on the subject or not, it is definitely not
actually the last word on the music, and I for one pray that every bit of extant unheard music,
whether in private collections, the vaults (doubtful), acetates or what have you will someday see the light of day in some form, because it is irreplaceably evocative and invaluable, at least to those who resonate with and love it, because of course it is not everyone's cup of tea.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

Well said, Muted.

Also, I was wondering about tracks that some people say exist, but do they? For example, all of us old Smile Shop regulars probably remember a Mr. Desmond Jones who claimed to have heard a 'Do A Lot' with sound effects over the back of it-I want to say it was the sounds of pots and pans, and I swear he said brushing teeth. Does this really exist, or was it just someone pulling the boards collective leg?

[Jeff]

And you're setting up a strawman by comparing "finished unreleased songs of the others" to "Take 143 of an alternate clarinet overdub on a Smile track." 

Well naturally. That's virtually the only way to make a point ... I find nuance doesn't do well on message boards.

But really (as you may have guessed) I don't care one way or the other. I'd like to hear anything, including the sessions I've mocked, even though I don't obsess about or catalogue them, and get bored reading people's discussions whether (and guess what, this is an exaggeration alert again) the phrasing of the violinist makes the 15th take superior to the released version. But hey, I get tired of reading most anyone's discussion of any unreleased music, since it tends to quickly become obvious how the point isn't the music, but the hip factor of the person who has found the means of hearing it.

That said, why do I post here? Great question. Either I love the music or I'm a masochist. Or both. Probably both.

And in all seriousness, I see you're a relatively new poster. Welcome aboard. Don't take my sarcasm seriously, ever. I mean no offense (ever).

Luther-

Thanks.  No offense taken, and I appreciate the welcome.  I actually used to post years ago when the board was part of the Smile Shop, but I haven't been doint that recently.  So maybe my question in this thread is in part directed at myself...

[Jeff]

I'm still here.

Yeah I know, the title of the thread was a not-so-clever play on "where have you gone Joe Dimaggio."  Apparently when Dimaggio (never the hippest guy) heard the song, he said something to the effect of "what do you mean, I'm right here," and he considered suing for defamation.  I'll hope to avoid that misunderstanding with you. 

In all seriousness, I do value your posts and those of others who have been at this for a while.

[Dove Nested Towers]

Well said, Muted.

Also, I was wondering about tracks that some people say exist, but do they? For example, all of us old Smile Shop regulars probably remember a Mr. Desmond Jones who claimed to have heard a 'Do A Lot' with sound effects over the back of it-I want to say it was the sounds of pots and pans, and I swear he said brushing teeth. Does this really exist, or was it just someone pulling the boards collective leg?

I don't want to get into areas that are off-limits, but I spoke at length with the elusive fellow you
mentioned at length a few years back, and there are some hair-raising stories about him, as you
may know. I can't remember all the specifics, but he claimed to have unique material, and was
trying to edit or otherwise assemble some of it himself, and played a coherent, complete-sounding
"Love to Say Da Da" over the phone, with sound effects added, but who knows whether he put it together himself or not. I think BRI was trying to work out a deal to purchase his material outright,
thus being able to at least identify and catalogue it, but it never materialized.

Mysterious, ain't it?

Could Wee Helper or someone possibly send a personal message about Big Grin and Secret Smile?

[A Million Units In Jan!]

I don't want to get into areas that are off-limits, but I spoke at length with the elusive fellow you
mentioned at length a few years back, and there are some hair-raising stories about him, as you
may know. I can't remember all the specifics, but he claimed to have unique material, and was
trying to edit or otherwise assemble some of it himself, and played a coherent, complete-sounding
"Love to Say Da Da" over the phone, with sound effects added, but who knows whether he put it together himself or not. I think BRI was trying to work out a deal to purchase his material outright,
thus being able to at least identify and catalogue it, but it never materialized.

Mysterious, ain't it?

Could Wee Helper or someone possibly send a personal message about Big Grin and Secret Smile?

So you're saying that, perhaps, he was full of it, but perhaps he was the real deal? The only thing I remember about his appearances on the board was that people seemed to take him seriously for some reason, while others like someone named 'The Bellagio Insider' ended up being run off the board. I think Bellagio was the one who claimed to have heard 'A Barnyard Suite' and said that it told the story of 'Barnyard Billy'. Of course, there also was the time some kid claimed to have a 2nd handwritten note that had 'ILTSDD' on it....

[Jason]

The All Day / Great Shape/ Cabinessce tapes hve been around since about 2000.

Just to add to what Bob's going at here....I believe these previously mentioned sessions and the so-called "Psychedelic Sounds", plus a few other tidbits, were from the massive copying campaign, the "American Band" thing, like it's called. As other boots have showed us, not all of the available material made it to SOTs.

Problem too with a lot of Smile session material is a wealth of material that's been cassette-taped to death. I know the magic's in the hiss. There you will find your clarinet bleed-through.

[Dancing Bear]

I don't want to get into areas that are off-limits, but I spoke at length with the elusive fellow you
mentioned at length a few years back, and there are some hair-raising stories about him, as you
may know. I can't remember all the specifics, but he claimed to have unique material, and was
trying to edit or otherwise assemble some of it himself, and played a coherent, complete-sounding
"Love to Say Da Da" over the phone, with sound effects added, but who knows whether he put it together himself or not. I think BRI was trying to work out a deal to purchase his material outright,
thus being able to at least identify and catalogue it, but it never materialized.

Mysterious, ain't it?

Could Wee Helper or someone possibly send a personal message about Big Grin and Secret Smile?

So you're saying that, perhaps, he was full of it, but perhaps he was the real deal? The only thing I remember about his appearances on the board was that people seemed to take him seriously for some reason, while others like someone named 'The Bellagio Insider' ended up being run off the board. I think Bellagio was the one who claimed to have heard 'A Barnyard Suite' and said that it told the story of 'Barnyard Billy'. Of course, there also was the time some kid claimed to have a 2nd handwritten note that had 'ILTSDD' on it....

Oh god. The kid whose mother supposedly worked for Capitol in sixties? Holy Jake Foutz.

[Cal]

I've wondered what became of the Vigotone stuff too.  According to this article, he cooperated and turned over all his material but I've never heard of any specific tapes being recovered.  It seems like Alan Boyd or others would have mentioned it if they got anything back. 

I always thought that the SECRET SMILE bootleg set incorporated most of what Vigotone had to offer (that would have been new to bootleg in their SMILE box that never made it out)?

Also a few years back John Hunt from the SMILE SHOP was working on a book about SMILE outtakes with Doug Sulpy that was (from what I understood) to be like Doug's "910's GUIDE TO BEATLES OUTTAKES" books -- that would incorpoate every SMILE session tape available and correspond it to the best available sounding version on bootleg for us collectors. Has anyone  since, attempted to do this,--possibly online since the Hunt/Sulpy book never was completed?

Regards,
Cal aka "Beatle Bob"

[Jason]

Also a few years back John Hunt from the SMILE SHOP was working on a book about SMILE outtakes with Doug Sulpy that was (from what I understood) to be like Doug's "910's GUIDE TO BEATLES OUTTAKES" books -- that would incorpoate every SMILE session tape available and correspond it to the best available sounding version on bootleg for us collectors. Has anyone  since, attempted to do this,--possibly online since the Hunt/Sulpy book never was completed?

Yes, I have. Recently. For archival/catalog purposes.

[hongkongcrowe]

hi everyone, this is my first post....i've been enjoying this excellent thread, and having recently changed my thinking about SMiLE i thought i'd give posting a shot........i remember the cabinessance board, and i miss the great smile shop.....sometimes it appears that the internet was created to allow the SMiLE community to come together and discuss this great album...i grew up a huge beach boys fan but took a breather from the band after college as i got into different music and flew myself on the other side of the world in china.....then on my 30th birthday, a friend played the SMiLE tunes from the BB box set....i remember hearing wind chimes for the first time and simply being blown away, i had to pick my jaw off the floor.  it was so different from anything i had heard while at the same time capturing perfectly the psychedelic beach boys sound that made it so contemporary for those times...soon after i was able to find some more SMiLE stuff, heroes & villains sessions, sea of tunes all of it...i made SMiLE cassettes and mixes playing them for people who after a few bars would ask me, 'is this really the beach boys?'

i grew up in a house with lots of books about the kennedy administration, and no matter how many times i thumbed through those books, the ending was the same, kennedy was shot, and the dream died.  it was the same for SMiLE, no matter how much new stuff i found, the ending was still the same, no official release of SMiLE and more wonder of what it could have been..... 

so when brian finally released BWPS, my happiness was tempered by the fact that it wasn't the beach boys' SMiLE.  there's so much magic in their voices, and they sound so cool and tight on the SMiLE sessions, whether it's cabinessance, child is the father of the man, vegetables, etc.  but i was still blown away by brian's ability to recreate the sound of that era and after few listens, i came to really like BWPS back in 2004, but i would still go back to the sessions, back to mok's mix as a part of me still wished for a Beach Boys' SMiLE sessions box set with copious liner notes, lots of photos, and maybe an attempt at a single beach boys' SMiLE album.

since 2004, it seems about twice a year, i get into a SMiLE rut, playing the sessions, playing sea of tunes, mok's SMiLE, even some of the stranger mixes like the millenium edition sometimes called Dumb Angel, and then i would play BWPS, but i'd still be hoping, wishing, wondering if we'd ever see all the stuff finally made available....but as i said above the ending's always the same....except brian & van dyke did complete their version and it continued to grow on me...

a couple of weeks ago, on a saturday nite over the holidays, i asked my wife if she'd like to watch a story with a happy ending.  she knows who the beach boys are but doesn't know the stories about the band and SMiLE.  so we sat down to watch BEAUTIFUL DREAMER and then BWPS.  and watching it again, [it was my 3rd time] and seeing van dyke and brian working together and reminding myself of everything that brian had to go through to even be alive at this point i realized more deeply that it's simply remarkable that we have a completed version of SMiLE and one that seems to get better every time i listen to it.....

this latest SMiLE rut has got me back on the net, back to sites such as yours, with folks looking for other possible hidden gems, as well as asking the inevitable 'will we ever see a Beach Boys' SMiLE released, or will Capitol ever release a SMiLE sessions?'....but the difference in me after all these years is now i've come to accept and treasure BWPS.  yes, i miss carl's, dennis', al's and mike's voices, and of course i miss young brian's voice.  i also wish they didn't leave some stuff on the floor, but overall, the album is a punchy and upbeat song cycle.  and the production still amazes me, i mean it sounds as if it was recorded in 67. 

reading this thread, i can relate to those fans that still want a SMiLE sessions box set, but i think the window for that release is growing even shorter every day.  the simple fact is that with every year, there's less incentive to release physical music product as cd sales continue to drop.  in a few years, a SMiLE sessions box set may not even be a break even proposition.  but i'm ok with that now, because we have a completed version of SMiLE and it's great....the SMiLE story has an incredible unbelievable happy ending... 

as for what other unreleased stuff i'd like to hear, that's pretty easy, any tunes from the surf's up to holland era, and everything recorded for beach boys in concert with blondie and ricky.  where are the tracks that were recorded for the initial single lp?  a live version of you need a mess of help?  live river song? blondie singing wild honey? i'd even like to hear mike channel jagger on jumping jack flash....thanks, tim

[lance]

The song took a few listens before I liked it but I do...all versions. My favorite version is probably the BWPS one, though I guess the Purple Chick mix is the one I listen too. In other words, I like the choruses, I like the cantina part and I like the ending of the SS version. I do like the "false barnyard" section of the alternate take, but one can't have everything.

[Chris Brown]

The song took a few listens before I liked it but I do...all versions. My favorite version is probably the BWPS one, though I guess the Purple Chick mix is the one I listen too. In other words, I like the choruses, I like the cantina part and I like the ending of the SS version. I do like the "false barnyard" section of the alternate take, but one can't have everything.

For me, the "false barnyard" section is the perfect ending.  It has a great "riding off into the sunset" type of vibe that wraps everything up perfectly.  The ending of the single mix and of the BWPS version don't have the same impact for me.

[The Shift]

The song took a few listens before I liked it but I do...all versions. My favorite version is probably the BWPS one, though I guess the Purple Chick mix is the one I listen too. In other words, I like the choruses, I like the cantina part and I like the ending of the SS version. I do like the "false barnyard" section of the alternate take, but one can't have everything.

For me, the "false barnyard" section is the perfect ending.  It has a great "riding off into the sunset" type of vibe that wraps everything up perfectly.  The ending of the single mix and of the BWPS version don't have the same impact for me.

I prefer the workout on the USM box set, where the tune is played with plucked strings at a slower pace. Crazy, but for me that conjures up a picture of hen chicks strutting their stuff in unison to the music (aka dancing) on a cobbled farmyard. That image has been in my head since the day I first heard the tune (is it really a decade since that box came out?).  I wonder whether Brian had intentions for that version? was it to be another musical theme, like the Bicycle Rider theme, or With Me Tonight?

[Sheriff John Stone]

....will we ever see a Beach Boys' SMiLE released, or will Capitol ever release a SMiLE sessions?'....

No and Yes.

Welcome to the board, Tim. Of course we will never see a Beach Boys' SMiLE a la BWPS, but, I believe the time will come for a Capitol Records' boxed set, especially now that The Beach Boys AND Brian (is he still under contract) are back with Capitol.

You talked about that "window growing shorter" for any SMiLE release. That window will never close. There will come a time when The Beach Boys are winding down, Brian is about ready to call it a day, Capitol might want something other than another Greatest Hits comp, and the time will be right. As long as $$$$$$$$$ are involved, there will always be that possiblity. In my opinion, that was the main reason for Brian's camp proceeding with BWPS. Brian is quoted as saying that his "wife thought it was a good time to finish SMiLE." After Imagination, Pet Sounds Live, and Gettin' In Over My Head, I'll bet she did. I'll bet she did indeed....

[Rocky]

Brian is quoted as saying that his "wife thought it was a good time to finish SMiLE." After Imagination, Pet Sounds Live, and Gettin' In Over My Head, I'll bet she did. I'll bet she did indeed....

you hit the nail on the head my friend