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Author Topic: Where have you gone, Bicycle Rider?  (Read 10873 times)
Jeff
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« on: January 16, 2009, 03:20:12 PM »

Actually, not just Bicycle Rider ...  but anyone who still cares about Smile.  On this, the successor to the Smile Shop board, we have a 3-page thread about unavailable BB tracks people want to hear--and only one poster includes Smiles tracks.  Not a single person mentions the fabled early version of H&V.  Instead, people would rather hear classics such as "Bruce's Ten Years Harmony demo."  And as of today there's a 5-page thread on Mike Love's solo album.  I imagine the comments are not positive ... but man, why even bother discussing it?

Has it really come to this?  No one even cares about the still-lost Smile recordings enough to wish for them?  And they would rather hear '70s and '80s outtakes--even from Bruce Johnston?  Unfortunately, this Smile malaise seems to be present throughout the Net.  One Smile Yahoo group that used to be active every day now gets one or two posts a year.  A number of sites clearly haven't been updated in years.

Yes, I know that the BW-released album created a sense of finality for a lot of people.  But I never thought interest would fall so far, so fast.  The shame of it is that to the extent there's any chance of additional unreleased, unbooted Smile tracks coming out, the lack of enthusiasm among even BB fans will surely weigh against that.

OK, that's it.  Sorry for the whining.
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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2009, 04:09:16 PM »

SMILE was a great mystery. We all had ideas/fantasies/hopes about the project. And then, our prayer(s) (pun intended) were answered. SMILE was released. We could now here SMiLE as it was intended. Is it the 1967 SMiLE? Yes.....and No. But it is SMiLE. But to stop talking about the the BB other unreleased gems, as well as their history, would be a crime.

SMiLE - clues solved....where THOSE clues lead.......always interesting.
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Dancing Bear
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« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2009, 04:30:42 PM »

With BWPS, you pretty much had Brian's and Van Dyke's last comments on the subject. Maybe Brian forgot tons about it, maybe he remembered all he had been up to till mid-67, but you aren't going to have anything more from him. If there won't be an official boxset with the sixties recordings while Brian's alive, Al, Bruce and Mike haven't got any reason to talk or try to remember anything about it either. Anderle, Vosse, Schwarz and the rest said all they had to say in Leaf's docu.

So, everyone's is 99,9% sure that what's circulating out there is all we are ever going to listen to or know about Smile. That's all. I'd rather debate Bambu or the MIU sessions.
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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2009, 04:35:39 PM »

I don't follow the last two posts. Far as I'm concerned, you can take it as a given that anything and everything SMiLE-related that we don't already have in glorious sound quality should be on the list of must-haves. Which means virtually everything.  I just assumed that it was taken for granted that SMiLE is still the must-have. For all BWPS is regarded as the last word, it, erm, isn't the last word.

Top of my list (this week) would be the long-lost (Misfiled? Trashed? Stolen?) Columbia vocal sessions.
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Jeff
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2009, 05:10:04 PM »


So, everyone's is 99,9% sure that what's circulating out there is all we are ever going to listen to or know about Smile. That's all. I'd rather debate Bambu or the MIU sessions.

That's quite a definitive statement.  And yet, a very credible poster to this very board has heard Smile material that has not been booted or released.  I certainly don't know all the details, but I recall reading about a version of H&V he heard that included a section of With Me Tonight with bells & whistles overdubs.  But you're 99.9% sure that the rest of us will never hear this?  How can you be so confident?
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Chris Brown
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« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2009, 05:17:39 PM »

I didn't post on that other thread, but my "wish list" would be almost exclusively SMiLE tracks (save for "Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again").  I think there is still a fair amount that we haven't heard yet, especially things that only exist on acetates in the hands of various people.  Not to mention, like Wee Helper said, there are plenty of things that ARE out there that we don't have in pristine sound quality. 

I know others feel differently, but for me BWPS didn't provide any "closure" at all.  If anything, it only raised more questions, and didn't really answer much of anything.  So anything new found from the original sessions at this point would be at the top of my list of things I would want to hear.
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the captain
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2009, 05:37:30 PM »

Of course original Smile material is interesting. But remember, a lot of people aren't really interested in sessions. Final products (or nearly final, or could-be-considered final products) are a different thing altogether. But how many other Smile songs are there in that state?

I'm not dismissing it. And I like sessions...sometimes. But every little nuance of every little take isn't interesting to everyone.

Second, the other Beach Boys were talented, too. No, I don't like Mike Love's solo work. And while I think Bruce was a talented guy, he's of moderate interest at most to me. But what's wrong with wanting to hear those guys' music? The Beach Boys were more than Brian; finished, unreleased songs of the others might be more interesting to some people than Take 143 of an alternate clarinet overdub on a Smile track.
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« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2009, 05:52:51 PM »

I love Smile and Pet Sounds but am slightly burned out on them. As far as Pet Sounds, the original mono album  and maybe half a dozen outtakes suffice. That music I still treasure, but the sessions are mostly things I find interesting to hear once and then file away.

Smile I have heard so many sessions and outtakes, and read books and articles etc. Don't get me wrong there is nothing else like Brian's 1966 work, but it wasn't the only time he was interesting. If there are things that are significantly different that what I heard then great, but I agree that horn overdubs and slightly different edits are of minor interest. If they did an official triple record set ala POB on Smile I am sure I would love it, but again so much has been said on it that I don't always open Smile threads on here. Why?  I feel that it has been extensively covered and discusse, there is little mystery in it for me anymore. At the same time I am glad that many see through the Brian is God myth and the Mike Love is Satan one as well.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 08:03:54 PM by MBE » Logged
Jeff
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« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2009, 05:55:31 PM »

But what's wrong with wanting to hear those guys' music? The Beach Boys were more than Brian; finished, unreleased songs of the others might be more interesting to some people than Take 143 of an alternate clarinet overdub on a Smile track.

Of course there's nothing wrong with wanting to hear what you want to hear.  I was just amazed that so few people still seem to want to hear Smile material.  And you're setting up a strawman by comparing "finished unreleased songs of the others" to "Take 143 of an alternate clarinet overdub on a Smile track."  A number of the wish list items in the thread on this board are for demos or alternates (thus my reference to someone wishing for "Bruce's Ten Years Harmony demo").  And I see no reason to believe that we can only hope for extremely minor alternates or overdubs to the Smile tracks we already have.  Again, the early version of H&V (not the Cantina version, but the one that incorporated Barnyard, I'm in Great Shape and/or With Me Tonight) would likely be very, very different than anything we've heard.
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Magic Transistor Radio
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« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2009, 06:20:00 PM »

There is a reason this board is called Smiley Smile. Because we have moved passed Smile. Smiley JK
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"Over the years, I've been accused of not supporting our new music from this era (67-73) and just wanting to play our hits. That's complete b.s......I was also, as the front man, the one promoting these songs onstage and have the scars to show for it."
Mike Love autobiography (pg 242-243)
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« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2009, 06:30:52 PM »

Quote
SMILE was released. We could now here SMiLE as it was intended.

...yeah but not really. Yes in 2004 we could hear it as it was finally decided upon many years after the fact in a very different setting by two artists who were coming from a much different place in 2004 then they were in 1966. What I, as well as many others, have been longing for is for Smile to have it's day as a release of what it was, incomplete as it may be.  To say that we can hear smile as it was intended isn't really true. Regardless of which version is better or complete or whatever, that's debatable based on your taste and opinion, but clearly there is a huge difference between what smile was intended to be, what it existed as at the point it was left in '67, and then what it became as a finished product decades later. For the only release of Smile to be the 2004 version just leaves way too many empty spaces to satisfy my love for the album.
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the captain
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« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2009, 06:32:27 PM »

And you're setting up a strawman by comparing "finished unreleased songs of the others" to "Take 143 of an alternate clarinet overdub on a Smile track." 

Well naturally. That's virtually the only way to make a point ... I find nuance doesn't do well on message boards.

But really (as you may have guessed) I don't care one way or the other. I'd like to hear anything, including the sessions I've mocked, even though I don't obsess about or catalogue them, and get bored reading people's discussions whether (and guess what, this is an exaggeration alert again) the phrasing of the violinist makes the 15th take superior to the released version. But hey, I get tired of reading most anyone's discussion of any unreleased music, since it tends to quickly become obvious how the point isn't the music, but the hip factor of the person who has found the means of hearing it.

That said, why do I post here? Great question. Either I love the music or I'm a masochist. Or both. Probably both.

And in all seriousness, I see you're a relatively new poster. Welcome aboard. Don't take my sarcasm seriously, ever. I mean no offense (ever).
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« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2009, 07:28:19 PM »

I know others feel differently, but for me BWPS didn't provide any "closure" at all.  If anything, it only raised more questions, and didn't really answer much of anything.

I agree, Chris. It did raise more questions. But I didn't think people cared enough about it (BWPS) to ask those questions or feel like examining it. Maybe, deep down inside, listeners don't take it nearly as seriously as the 1966-67 sessions. Just my opinion.

Jeff, I think the interest in SMiLE is still there. If you start a thread about a SMiLE song, a session, a title, or how Mike Love felt about it, you'll usually get some good responses, at least a couple of pages of posts. Try it, do you have a topic in mind?
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MBE
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« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2009, 08:04:38 PM »

I modified my post a bit.
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TonyW
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« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2009, 08:15:27 PM »

Certainly the speculation has faded somewhat since BWPS appeared but as the Sherrif says the interest is still here ... just not at the feverish pace it was for so many years. There's been three SMiLE threads recently: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=6617.0   ,   http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=6644.0   and   http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=6620.0

The third thread got me all worked up over the Chrissie/New Year break to listen to a lot of the original SMiLE stuff. I guess one of the things that struck me was that the last "new thing" we heard from SMiLE was BWPS back in '04. When was the last time a 66/67 recording leaked out into the public domain? We seem to have been talking about the same stuff for several years now without any great advancement, revelations or ephanies.  

As somebody who has been around since the early days of Mike Wheeler's Cabinessnce Board and the old SMiLE Board I must admit that the lack of new activity and the de-ja-vu-ness of the "new" discussions does leave one a bit worn out. No offence to the posts above but I just went through the Barnshine de-ja-vu for about the 50th time.

We need a good "leaking", an AntBee/Vigotone controversy or a Rock With Me Henry to stir things up!!  
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« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2009, 01:57:58 AM »

There are basically two categories for Smile music that's out in the wild: stuff that's been widely booted that we've all heard and stuff that's being hoarded that we're unlikely to hear any time soon.  Apart from the occasional Secret Smile or Big Grin sort of release with a new fragment or two of interest, I don't see that changing.  And if there's anything substantive left in the vault, one would have to assume they're keeping a tight lid on it these days in light of all the tapes that have been copied, stolen, or misplaced in the past.
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« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2009, 02:57:07 AM »

There are basically two categories for Smile music that's out in the wild: stuff that's been widely booted that we've all heard and stuff that's being hoarded that we're unlikely to hear any time soon.  Apart from the occasional Secret Smile or Big Grin sort of release with a new fragment or two of interest, I don't see that changing.  And if there's anything substantive left in the vault, one would have to assume they're keeping a tight lid on it these days in light of all the tapes that have been copied, stolen, or misplaced in the past.
Thanks for the tip  - just found Big Grin!   Grin
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« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2009, 06:00:17 AM »

Yeah, I don't know if we will ever gonna hear anything new from 66/67. What I meant is, folk's expectations are very low nowadays, so there is a general 'why bother' reaction. That's what Jeff asked, why has interest fallen so far, so fast?
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« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2009, 09:02:25 AM »

I'm one of those weird people who would love to hear an alternate take of a clarinet solo from the SMiLE sessions. I don't know what it is about the SMiLE music; I mean, a lot of it isn't a mystery anymore (at least compared to what we knew, say, 10 years ago when it was harder to come by stuff). It's just something that I can't explain-it's almost like Brian's belief back in the day that the music he was making was 'spritual' or 'powerful', The music moves me.
 One snippet of SMiLE that I loved for years was the end of 'OMP/YAMS'. The descending strings after the sax. Maybe because it was so mournful souding, and that's the exact opposite of what people always imagine Brian writing. I just loved it.
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« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2009, 10:19:11 AM »

I think we will hear more eventually, just not anytime soon.  Like Todd said, its likely that the remaining "undiscovered" pieces that we haven't heard are in trusted hands, and not in consideration for any public release at the moment. 

I think there will come a point where a Smile Sessions box set is assembled, and it will include stuff we've never heard before, but that won't happen until Brian is gone.
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« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2009, 10:43:13 AM »

Personally, I can't have enough of SMiLE. I could listen to it all day if I wanted to.
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the captain
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« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2009, 10:45:58 AM »

Personally, I can't have enough of SMiLE. I could listen to it all day if I wanted to.

I think almost all of us felt, feel or will feel (or some combination thereof) that way. But just as it's something that can absorb a guy for a solid day, week or month, for me it's something to be put aside every now and again. It isn't intentional, or even a falling-out-of-love. It's just the ebb and tide, you know? There is so much music in the world, a guy can't miss it all just for one (unreleased) album.
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« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2009, 12:27:34 PM »

I think we will hear more eventually, just not anytime soon.  Like Todd said, its likely that the remaining "undiscovered" pieces that we haven't heard are in trusted hands, and not in consideration for any public release at the moment. 

I think there will come a point where a Smile Sessions box set is assembled, and it will include stuff we've never heard before, but that won't happen until Brian is gone.

Agree, Chris, but I think it will happen while Brian's still around. I think somebody from Capitol Records, who also might be a knowledgable fan, will get close with Melinda and Brian, and sell them the idea of a SMiLE boxed set. It will probably occur when Brian's career is close to being a wrap, and money will play a part. I'm confident there would be enough qualified people around to make sure it's done right, but a concern of mine would be the accompanying notes/booklet. There's bound to be contradictions, banal comments from Brian, and the usual off-the-wall comments from Al and Bruce. If there could just be a guy who could sit down with Brian and Van Dyke, in a number of sessions/interviews, and keep the tape recorder running....If they want me, I'll work cheap! police

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the captain
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« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2009, 12:36:11 PM »

The contradictions, at least, I think would be great. Think of the Beatles Anthology, when you go from Ringo saying they were stoned out of their minds to Paul saying they were sober to George saying he's not sure. I think the honest presentation of conflict and contradiction makes for the best picture. No, it wouldn't make a clean narrative, but there is no clean narrative even in the present, much less the ever-more-distant past.
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the captain
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« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2009, 12:36:57 PM »

And so on that ^ note, Smile deserves a real documentary. Not Beautiful Dreamer.
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No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
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