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Author Topic: Hawaiian chants in Roll Plymouth Rock?  (Read 18121 times)
Bill Barnyard
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« Reply #75 on: February 04, 2009, 09:00:19 AM »

As far as I can recall, VDP didn't tell Darian whether the CITOFM lyrics on BWPS were the original or new. I don't know if VDP was ever asked directly about that. Darian felt that the lyrics were new but he didn't know. It may  
that VDP lost some of his original lyric sheets or that they ended up with his first wife Durrie after their divorce,
along wiith these legendary acetates.

I do remember (a radio interview) with Van Dyke in which he expressed surprise about the actual amount of music Brian recorded for SMiLE of which he was unaware (or couldn't remember).

Brian on 'Look' (saying it was originally an instrumental). Well it is Brian we're talking about. Besides if there were vocal sessions for that track it doesn't necessarily figure that there were lyrics -it could have been simply background chants etc.

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Chris Brown
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« Reply #76 on: February 04, 2009, 09:17:35 AM »

Brian on 'Look' (saying it was originally an instrumental). Well it is Brian we're talking about. Besides if there were vocal sessions for that track it doesn't necessarily figure that there were lyrics -it could have been simply background chants etc.

Despite Brian's waivering reliability, maybe "Look" was indeed orginally an instrumental, but then he came up with something vocal to add later (either lyrics or chants).  I think the vocal session took place about 2 months after the track was recorded, so perhaps he wasn't misremembering after all. 

"Look" is actually one of the few tracks from the original sessions that I think works as an instrumental...unlike "Worms," "Child," or some of the other tracks, I don't get the feeling that anything is missing when I listen to it.   
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Dove Nested Towers
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« Reply #77 on: February 04, 2009, 07:56:46 PM »

Brian on 'Look' (saying it was originally an instrumental). Well it is Brian we're talking about. Besides if there were vocal sessions for that track it doesn't necessarily figure that there were lyrics -it could have been simply background chants etc.

Despite Brian's waivering reliability, maybe "Look" was indeed orginally an instrumental, but then he came up with something vocal to add later (either lyrics or chants).  I think the vocal session took place about 2 months after the track was recorded, so perhaps he wasn't misremembering after all. 

"Look" is actually one of the few tracks from the original sessions that I think works as an instrumental...unlike "Worms," "Child," or some of the other tracks, I don't get the feeling that anything is missing when I listen to it.   

I agree that it does work as an instrumental, but also think that the vocals add SO much to
it. I remember the first time I heard one of the early Smile concerts on CD before BWPS was
released, and the segueway from Wonderful into Look or Song for Children with the lyrics was
one of those treasured Smile moments I won't forget.

Didn't someone say that the Look session mentioned was supposedly a vocal OVERDUB
session? That might indicate actual lyrics, but I guess it could just refer to background chants.

I met Van Dyke a few years ago at Frank Holmes' Smile art exhibit in San Francisco, and was
excited and a little scattered, but I believe that I remember asking him if the lyrics for Look/
Song for Children were newly written, and I think he said yes. 3D
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #78 on: February 04, 2009, 08:14:31 PM »

I agree that it does work as an instrumental, but also think that the vocals add SO much to
it. I remember the first time I heard one of the early Smile concerts on CD before BWPS was
released, and the segueway from Wonderful into Look or Song for Children with the lyrics was
one of those treasured Smile moments I won't forget.

Agree, it's the highlight of BWPS for me. But, it also caught me off guard. I always envisioned "Look" as one of three things:

1) the sun rising in the morning, looking out over a green field or valley, the dawning of a new day
2) a ship sailing over the ocean, somebody spots land, and says "Look!"
3) a continuation of the "Good Vibrations" riff, imagine the girl dancing, "she's still dancing in the night unafraid...."

But, I never thought of children; I suppose it could've been that in 1966. It certainly works on BWPS.....

 
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Jay
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« Reply #79 on: February 04, 2009, 08:23:27 PM »

Quote
Specifically, what was the original intent for "Heroes And Villains", what was the "Barnyard Suite", what comprised "The Elements", and what was Brian's working sequence (assuming he had a rough one)? With the speed in which Brian talks, that would take about another half an hour to answer. Of course, I wouldn't want to send him over the edge with these emotionally troubling questions....

Well, I have another dumb theory, being the resident Brian Wilson and Van Dyke Parks impersonator around here. My theory is that the cantina version of "H&V" reveals the songs original structure. The "in the cantina..." part replaces the "barnyard" section ("out in the barnyard..." to "in the cantina..."), and the "dum...dum...dum..." section with the distortion replaces "I'm in Great Shape" (I'm inferring this by how both end, with echoing distortion). Brian identified those as sections of "H&V" in the famous demo, and I think the cantina mix was trying to put "H&V" back together after having cannibalized the sections for the separate track "I'm in Great Shape". If you were to follow "I'm in Great Shape" with the early version of the cantina "H&V" fade with the "you were my sunshine" vocals, it makes some thematic sense. But I'm just trying to do detective work without enough clues. Also, something else interesting I found out accidentally:

Threescore and ten: The span of a life. In the days that this was coined that was considered to be seventy years.

There is a use of it that refers to the span of our lives, in Psalms 90:

The days of our years are threescore years and ten;
and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years,
yet is their strength labor and sorrow;
for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.

As with many other Biblical phrases, this was picked up by Shakespeare. In Macbeth, we have:

Threescore and ten I can remember well:
Within the volume of which time I have seen
Hours dreadful and things strange; but this sore night
Hath trifled former knowings.

So, besides "at threescore and five..." from the cantina "H&V" dating the narrator as 65 years old, it also reveals that he is at the end of his life and is reflecting on what has happened.

That is a great theory. I also have a theory, if you could all indulge me for a moment. I have always thought that the center piece of Smile is Surf's Up, not H&V. When the song ends with the "a children's song" line, it's the "hero" of the Smile story reflecting on the innocence of life. It's a theme that is touched on in Wonderful. I envision this guy thinking about "a children's song", about the innocence that once was, before the westward expansion. Before it was nothing but "heroes" against the "villians".
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Bill Tobelman
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« Reply #80 on: February 05, 2009, 05:57:11 AM »

Here's a Brian Wilson quote from the Surfing Saints article. It includes the term "look" and refers to the ultimate religious experience.

"The thing you really look for is the moment of clear light. It's only happened to me once--early in the morning alone on the beach with the sun coming up very red. A moment of clear light."
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JCarson
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« Reply #81 on: February 06, 2009, 04:12:41 PM »


I LIKED what you said AND how you said it. Sorry, I just meant that some might find both
my post and yours to be overly analytical and hard to take. I meant no offense and should
probably just speak for myself in future.

I think SMiLE fans should feel free to take this line of thought and analysis as far as we can, in the
absence of first-hand clarification. Really, no offense meant, quite the opposite actually. Cheesy

Thanks for the clarification. I know I shouldn't find offense when none is intended. It's just this message board thing - it's hard, sometimes, to tell how posts should be read.

Is it on one of the BB DVDs (An American Band?) where Van Dyke Parks speaks about his run-in with Mike Love re Smile and says something to the effect, "The lyrics don't mean a thing. If you don't like them, ditch them."? Surely a most disingenuous comment if ever there was one (I seem to remember a mid-70s Parks - in the clip - looking really groovy however). I'm no conspiracy theorist, and honestly I don't normally find myself obsessing over pop or rock group lyrics, but I do think there is substance to the concept (and the lyrics) of Smile that you don't find in other great albums of the time. Maybe Forever Changes and electric Bob Dylan are comparable. I don't have the authority to say.
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Chris Moise
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« Reply #82 on: February 06, 2009, 04:43:14 PM »


Surely someone here has Van Dyke's email address right? He's probably tired of talking about Smile but it may be worth a shot.  I'd simply ask him if he wrote lyrics for CITFOTM in '66 and if so why did he elect to re-write them in 2004.
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rab2591
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« Reply #83 on: August 13, 2010, 07:28:59 PM »

I was looking at AGD's site and saw only two session dates for 'Do you Like worms?' (one being the instrumentals, and the other being the vocal session)....was it usual for Brian to go to a vocal session with so few lyrics?

Van Dyke Parks obviously had at least the first few lines penned out for 'Do You Like Worms' so why didn't Brian record them? Or did VDPs pen those lyrics after the first vocal session?

I was just wondering if there could be original lyrics sung by Brian in '66 in a vault at Capitol - or if 'Bicycle Rider', 'Roll Plymouth Rock', and the chant were all he sung at that session.
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