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Author Topic: Steve Hoffman and the missing master tapes  (Read 20921 times)
Bicyclerider
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« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2008, 09:18:29 AM »

The good Vibrations track where Steve extended the fade is from the DCC Endless Summer CD - and he asked Brian's permission to do it and got it.  I think it's cool to have another slight variation on GV out there - the original fade was pretty abrupt - but I agree it's a little counter to Steve's usual position of trying to stay faithful to the original vinyl or master tape version.

The idea that Steve took the master tape is far fetched IMO - Capitol would know if they lent it to him for a couple of hours if it didn't come back.  Besides, he could just make a copy of it - which he did for the vinyl and digital DCC - so why would he steal it and thereby threaten his livelihood - do you think if he was know to steal mastertapes that anyone would ever send him another?  This was at a time when he was very busy with DCC issuing gold CD's of master tapes - Dylan, McCartney, Wings, etc.  He'd risk that to take a mastertape?  I highly doubt it.
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Andreas
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« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2008, 02:15:16 PM »

The idea that Steve took the master tape is far fetched IMO - Capitol would know if they lent it to him for a couple of hours if it didn't come back.  Besides, he could just make a copy of it - which he did for the vinyl and digital DCC - so why would he steal it and thereby threaten his livelihood - do you think if he was know to steal mastertapes that anyone would ever send him another?  This was at a time when he was very busy with DCC issuing gold CD's of master tapes - Dylan, McCartney, Wings, etc.  He'd risk that to take a mastertape?  I highly doubt it.
The idea is pure nonsense, but it makes an interesting story on internet forums, I guess.
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petsite
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« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2009, 11:27:41 PM »

From Steve Hoffman to me:

Hi Bob,

For the record, (heh, pun), Capitol checked out the analog master of PET SOUNDS and the New York safety dub as well for two hours on a Wednesday in 1992. At that time we made a flat 30 ips 1/2" non-Dolby analog tape copy and a digital Sony 1630-U-Matic flat copy. It took two hours and 15 minutes (looking at my old notes) to do the transfers to my liking (using an Ampex ATR-100-2 analog playback machine) and then the tapes were called back to Capitol that afternoon.

I used the U-matic (cloned over with proper pauses and two edits) to make the DCC Gold CD and a year or so later I used the 30 ips flat copy with the first song from the safety edited on to cut the LP lacquer at Location Recording Service in Burbank, CA with Kevin Gray. The set was spoiled in plating (accident) and we had to recut two weeks later. The late Greg Tobin processed the LP metal and made the final stampers for RTI to use in pressing the LP.


When we wanted to do the PET SOUNDS DCC LP we contacted Capitol for the tape. A little bird told me that the songs were cut down and stored on separate reels that housed the 45 versions and safeties for singles, the so-called "S" reels. Just like with Sinatra's SONGS FOR SWINGING LOVERS, the original album tape was broken down and each song stored on a different reel with a bunch of other stuff and marked in a series of books called the "S" books. When they moved the vault out of LA the DESTROYED all of the paperwork so now no one has a clue as to what is on any of those hundreds of "S" reels. I believe that PET SOUNDS is all on there somewhere, just not in any order.

I doubt it went missing, some goof just misfiled it or the BB's got hold of it. At any rate we offered Capitol our dubs several times but they really didn't care at all. Maybe we talked to the wrong person. Personally I would have used the NY copy instead of a 1630 to make the new disc; better resolution on the NY tape than an old U-matic. That's just me..
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Bicyclerider
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« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2009, 09:31:46 AM »

Sounds like the U-matic tape will be used to make the new Audio Fidelity version? 
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DonnyL
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« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2009, 07:00:45 PM »

might they use the analog master for a future LP?
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petsite
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« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2009, 04:14:22 AM »

THE BEACH BOYS
Pet Sounds
24Karat Gold CD (AFZ031)
$29.99 – Numbered Editions
 Wouldn't It Be Nice
You Still Believe In Me
That's Not Me
Don't Talk (Put Your Head On My Shoulder)
I'm Waiting For The Day
Let's Go Away For Awhile
Sloop John B
God Only Knows
I Know There's An Answer
Here Today
I Just Wasn't Made For These Times
Pet Sounds
Caroline, No
Hang On To Your Ego
 
One of the most acclaimed and influential albums of all time.  Recorded in 1965-66 and released in May of 1966, “Pet Sounds” is forever battling with the Beatles’ “Sergeant Pepper’s Lonely Heart Club Band” for the best album ever recorded.  George Martin, the Beatles’ producer, stated that “Without Pet Sounds, Sergeant Pepper wouldn’t have ever happened.”  “Pet Sounds” is Brian Wilson’s timeless gift to the world.   The album includes “Wouldn’t It Be Nice”, “Sloop John B.”, “God Only Knows”, “Caroline No” and other classics tracks as well as the Bonus Track, “Hang On To Your Ego”.   Audio Fidelity is using the original analog 1966 mix by Brian Wilson for the purest sound in 24 Karat Gold.  Faithful to the original release in all respects, this new version will be the ultimate PET SOUNDS. This disc has been mastered by Steve Hoffman.
 
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Bicyclerider
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« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2009, 08:07:57 AM »

That still doesn't tell us what the source is, the U-matic digital transfer of the original analog tape or the analog tape copy.  I wonder if Steve will "tweak" the sound of this release - he's expressed reservations in the past about not shaving off some of the bass from the DCC CD release.
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chris.metcalfe
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« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2009, 09:46:08 AM »

The picture accompanying the above blurb also states 'From the original master tapes'.
http://www.audiofidelity.net/upcoming_releases.html
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The Heartical Don
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« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2009, 10:50:00 AM »

I will purchase the new AF Pet Sounds Gold CD. I would like to have #00001. And I hereby retract any ironical, cynical, critical, or otherwise non-devotional remark about Steve Hoffmann I ever made, make, or will make.
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Bicyclerider
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« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2009, 07:45:08 AM »

Posted by Steve Hoffman today on the forums:  (he is apparently using his anaolgue tape copy of the master tape to master this new release)

Mastering BEACH BOYS "Pet Sounds" again, leaving the "2 db step fades" intact...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So I'm working on PET SOUNDS again and it's been a long time since I've played the album from start to finish. I've enjoyed hearing it again in order and I am picking up on stuff on the original mixes that I have not heard before, the subtle stuff that is buried but nonetheless audible when listening on a high quality playback system. Let's face it, this album will never, but never be a sonic masterpiece but it is one of the greatest albums ever made so we must take it at face value. Since Brian Wilson worked so hard on it, what is on the tape (even the most subtle stuff) is there for a reason. I have made sure that the new Audio Fidelity Gold CD (and hopefully 180 gram LP in a few more months) is as true to the original 1966 LP release and the ORIGINAL INTENT as humanly possible.

Since the mono original album mix is the only authentic version of the album in existence I've tried to keep as true to what Brian Wilson wanted as possible this time. It's poison to second guess some sonic decisions that were made in the good old year 1966 but one thing Brian didn't seem to be bothered by were the famous (infamous) "drop fades" that the old pots at Western Recorders had implanted on the fade-outs of most of the songs.

In other words, the fades have the volume dropping two db every turn of the knob until the sound just is killed at the end. If you've heard CALIFORNIA GIRLS on the DCC Gold CD I did of "Endless Summer" you have heard a "drop fade". I left it in there because I felt it was charming and I didn't want to do a smooth fadeout and gyp you of every bit of audible sound. Same goes for PET SOUNDS.

I have our half-inch mono head-stack 30 IPS AES Agfa full-bandwidth transfer that I made back in October or so of 1992 and consider it the best and most accurate version of the original release, having cobbled it together with the correct mixes for WOULDN'T IT BE NICE and a few bits and pieces that needed mending and my new HDCD transfer is stone FLAT (neutral) as being played back on an ATR 100 with special vacuum tube electronics into our new A/D converter.

Point is with all of this, I left the fades "STRAIGHT". So you will hear exactly what Brian Wilson heard in the studio during the fade outs of all the songs. I did NOT help the fades at all. They are exactly like Chuck Britz did them at Western, sort of a bouncing down to quiet and then a drop-off. I find it totally authentic and (as I said earlier) quite charming but a few of you might find it disarming or just weird so I wanted to warn you about it in advance.

On the various cuttings I have heard of this album the mastering engineer always "helps" the fades of the songs by starting them early to avoid the two db drop offs but the consequence is that each song is shorter by a few seconds or even more. I can't stand that. Give me the entire song, as long as possible and then fade ON leader, not before it..

So, there you go. When you hear the new Audio Fidelity PET SOUNDS you will hear the wacky fades just as they were done in the studio by Chuck Britz and Brian Wilson (and incidentally just as they appear on the ORIGINAL first Capitol LP cutting). I have used NO noise reduction of any kind and no compression, limiting or anything of a compromising nature on this mastering. It is as pure as possible; there isn't even a mastering console in use, just the playback deck to the recorder with nothing in between.

Hope you dig it. Other than furnishing you with your own Altec 604 speaker to listen on and a McIntosh 60 to play it back through the regulation Universal Audio 610 module, this is the best I can do to bring you the Beach Boys wonderful PET SOUNDS as close as possible to Brian's vision. The first Capitol LP mastering (that was approved by Brian) sounds similar to this but the sonic compromises necessary at the time (in the minds of some Capitol execs) to cut a phonograph record that would play on the kiddie machines of the day meant that the top end on the record was filtered at 10,000 cycles above and 50 cycles below (sort of a flat, dead sound on the original LP was the result) and the compression ratio was 2:1 (at least). No such sonic compromises were put in to place during this new mastering (or the old DCC version). Let's not take authenticity too far!

We at Audio Fidelity hope you will enjoy the new PET SOUNDS.
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Cal
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« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2009, 10:23:53 AM »

Point is with all of this, I left the fades "STRAIGHT". So you will hear exactly what Brian Wilson heard in the studio during the fade outs of all the songs. I did NOT help the fades at all. They are exactly like Chuck Britz did them at Western, sort of a bouncing down to quiet and then a steep and sudden drop-off. I find it totally authentic and (as I said earlier) quite charming but a few of you might find it disarming or just weird so I wanted to warn you about it in advance.


So, there you go. When you hear the new Audio Fidelity PET SOUNDS you will hear the wacky fades just as they were done in the studio by Chuck Britz and Brian Wilson (and incidentally just as they appear on the ORIGINAL first Capitol LP cutting). I have used NO noise reduction of any kind and no compression, limiting or anything of a compromising nature on this mastering. It is as pure as possible; there isn't even a mastering console in use, just the playback deck to the recorder with nothing in between.


When I saw that PET SOUNDS was being remastered again, I was leery about another relesae, even if it was from Steve Hoffman.  I figured that the last version on the DVD-A couldn't be topped. But--the quotes above sold me and I look forward to purchasing this release as it will be like the original mono lp release in '66-- and for purests it hits the right tone and attitude about how to approach an archival remaster.

Kudos to Hoffman!

Is there a release date set?

Regards,
Cal aka "Beatle Bob"
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« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2009, 12:34:24 PM »

Sounds great, literally!
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buddhahat
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« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2009, 02:03:48 PM »

When is this available in the uk?
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petsite
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« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2009, 08:35:49 PM »

Wonder why he doesn't use the digital 1630-U-Matic flat copy. No generational loss.
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« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2009, 08:57:51 AM »

Wonder why he doesn't use the digital 1630-U-Matic flat copy. No generational loss.

I guess he figures (and perhaps rightly so) that a new hi-res (24 bit, 96k) transfer of an analogue copy of the original is better than an old 16 bit, probably 44.1k digital transfer of the original. 

I assume the original 1966 mono mixdown master is on 1/4"...Steve's 1992 analogue transfer is 1/2", so that alone should aid in keeping much of the fidelity intact during the transfer.
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petsite
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« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2009, 09:03:40 AM »

I guess I always miss that point. To me, if you have a digital copy (44 hz) of an analogue source, is that always better that an analogue copy of an analogue copy? I understand that professional equipment is unlike copying a cassette to another cassette. I mean, I have a DAT recorder that I have copied my cassettes to. And I have copies of those cassettes on other cassettes. I would use a DAT before I used a cassette copy.
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« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2009, 09:25:36 AM »

Once again the answer is "it depends".  From what Hoffman says, he did a careful high-resolution analog transfer of the most-original 1/4" source tape he could borrow at the time.  Doing it to 1/2" mono of course doesn't ADD any resolution back that isn't already in the source tape, but it is the best analog medium for preserving everything copied from the source tape.  The U-matic is a perfectly fine (though now antiquated) digital back-up device, but it too is only as good as the source it was made from.  Then there is Capitol's own digital copy, made under what conditions we do not know.    It may have been done with care or it may not.  If you use that as the source you can't squeeze any more resolution out of it either, though once copied onto a modern hard drive, it could be upsampled and tweaked a little, maybe.  Also the jury is still out on the shelf life of these earlier versions of digital storage media.  At least we know Hoffman's transfer was done with care and so it is probably the best source for a modern mono remastering forty-two years later, even if it is a second-generation copy, keeping in mind that the sound of even the best analog tape can change a little bit over time, no matter how well it has been preserved.
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petsite
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« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2009, 12:24:52 PM »

Thanks for that explaination!
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c-man
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« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2009, 08:06:35 PM »

What tape was used to master the 1989 Japanese CD (the first PS CD ever)?  Was it the same digital U Matic tape that Linett used for the 1990 U.S. Capitol release, or a copy of it, or what...?  Reason I ask is b/c it sounds decidedly different...just listen to the opening snare shot in WIBN and compare the difference between the two. 
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Andreas
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« Reply #44 on: January 17, 2009, 03:37:51 AM »

What tape was used to master the 1989 Japanese CD (the first PS CD ever)?  Was it the same digital U Matic tape that Linett used for the 1990 U.S. Capitol release, or a copy of it, or what...?  Reason I ask is b/c it sounds decidedly different...just listen to the opening snare shot in WIBN and compare the difference between the two. 
I don't know the answer, but there was a Japanese CD release of Pet Sounds before the 1989 Pastermasters CD, released in 1987.
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c-man
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« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2009, 07:50:31 AM »

What tape was used to master the 1989 Japanese CD (the first PS CD ever)?  Was it the same digital U Matic tape that Linett used for the 1990 U.S. Capitol release, or a copy of it, or what...?  Reason I ask is b/c it sounds decidedly different...just listen to the opening snare shot in WIBN and compare the difference between the two. 
I don't know the answer, but there was a Japanese CD release of Pet Sounds before the 1989 Pastermasters CD, released in 1987.

That's the one I'm talking about, the pre-PastMasters edition.  Even though it says it was mastered in 1987, it didn't actually appear until early '89.  It was quickly withdrawn, and the PastMasters edition came out some months later. 
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Andreas
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« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2009, 10:01:08 AM »

What tape was used to master the 1989 Japanese CD (the first PS CD ever)?  Was it the same digital U Matic tape that Linett used for the 1990 U.S. Capitol release, or a copy of it, or what...?  Reason I ask is b/c it sounds decidedly different...just listen to the opening snare shot in WIBN and compare the difference between the two. 
I don't know the answer, but there was a Japanese CD release of Pet Sounds before the 1989 Pastermasters CD, released in 1987.

That's the one I'm talking about, the pre-PastMasters edition.  Even though it says it was mastered in 1987, it didn't actually appear until early '89.  It was quickly withdrawn, and the PastMasters edition came out some months later. 
Here is some discussion about it: http://stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=166468
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