Sgt. Pepper blew his mind?

[mikeyj]

I have read several things on various websites as well as in various books (like Derek Taylor's book It Was Twenty Years Ago Today for example) that after hearing Sgt. Pepper, Brian was so blown away that he went to bed for days/months (depending on what you read).... now I may have missed something but I don't think I've ever heard Brian praise Pepper to a great degree... it's always been Rubber Soul and after that "Strawberry Fields Forever" as far as I know... In that "The Making Of Sgt. Pepper" documentary Brian doesn't seem too amazed by it, he just says something like "I think of Pet sounds and Pepper and I think gosh, those two records don't sound alike at all... only in that they're very creative - they must have picked up on the creativity, not the sound."

And in particular, that Derek Taylor book said something like Brian Wilson ran to his room for a thumbsucking episode as he didn't know what to do about it." So I dunno, was he really blown away by Pepper that much? I know he likes She's Leaving Home... but still it just seems to me that he's always liked Rubber Soul SOOOO much more than Pepper.

[Dancing Bear]

The Beatles had been releasing great albums (almost) every six months. Pepper wasn't any different. Unfortunately, in June '67, Brian was.

[variable2]

Sgt. Pepper has consistently been on most of Brian's top album lists in interviews.  Didn't Paul play A Day In The Life for Brian when he was at the Vegetables recording session in 67?

[Sheriff John Stone]

I always felt that by the time Sgt. Pepper's was released, Brian was already blown away, the game was over, he had moved on....

[phirnis]

Without wanting to get into the old and equally tiresome Beach Boys vs. Beatles discussion, you really have to wonder why someone might be intimidated by Pepper who still had stuff like Surf's Up and Cabinessence up his sleeve.

[grillo]

Without wanting to get into the old and equally tiresome Beach Boys vs. Beatles discussion, you really have to wonder why someone might be intimidated by Pepper who still had stuff like Surf's Up and Cabinessence up his sleeve.

Yeah, I've always felt the same. Except for Strawberry Fields Forever and A Day in the Life I can't see any Beatles product from that era standing along side even the most minor SMiLE fragment. Pepper is more like Piper at the Gates of Dawn, which is an album I wonder if BW ever heard...

[The Heartical Don]

Without wanting to get into the old and equally tiresome Beach Boys vs. Beatles discussion, you really have to wonder why someone might be intimidated by Pepper who still had stuff like Surf's Up and Cabinessence up his sleeve.

Yeah, I've always felt the same. Except for Strawberry Fields Forever and A Day in the Life I can't see any Beatles product from that era standing along side even the most minor SMiLE fragment. Pepper is more like Piper at the Gates of Dawn, which is an album I wonder if BW ever heard...

I love this type of discussion, because it eludes us (well, me for one) how Brian indeed could feel intimidated by any other artist or band. But, and this is the $ 1.000.000 prize question, did he (ever) perceive himself as a great artist? With tricks up his sleeve? I'd say no. Many truly great artists didn't, don't have an inkling of an idea of how great their achievements are in the context of others' work. I'd go so far as to say that they don't have any urge to 'compete'. They don't create art in any conscious form, they do what they do (or what they feel they have to do), period. See van Gogh, see Beethoven, see Bach. Bach composed in the service of God with a strict discipline (apart from rearing a bunch of unruly kids). He worked his *ss off, but not to be celebrated by all generations after him, nor to impress other artists. He got his commissions and fulfilled his duties.
For me Mike Love was the competitive spirit in the band, which typifies the man for me. Being a very average composer himself, Love was keen on 'the formula', the image, the money, and making hits: i.e. being competitive, getting to #1. Brian was nothing of all that. He was insecure, didn't feel like a star ever, shied away from the stage, it's familiar territory. If he stated that he felt intimidated by the Beatles at any point, I think he meant the public and critical adoration, so: the validation. Perhaps he thought that if so many others worshipped the Fab Four, then he himself must be inherently inferior. Something like the democratic weight the masses put upon him.   
If this line of thinking/feeling held him back from finishing SMiLE in the end, then that is very, very sad.

[Dancing Bear]

I always felt that by the time Sgt. Pepper's was released, Brian was already blown away, the game was over, he had moved on....

Exactly. I wonder if being "blown away by Pepper" wasn't a calculation by Brian of what he had to do so folks would stop bugging him about those unfinished tracks he had been working on for months.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Brian can be a paradox or a walking contradiction (to steal a Kristofferson phrase) in this area. Many times he will fall into his fake-humility mode when he will say, describing his records/concerts, in an amazed tone, "I couldn't believe everybody stood up", referring to his standing ovations. Or, about his old records, "Do people still remember them"? Like we would FORGET them? Or, about SMiLE, "I didn't know if people were going to like it". As if the people - who bought tickets to BWPS - wouldn't LOVE IT?

I believe, that while Brian didn't always write with sales/commercialism in mind, it was/is very important to him.  I think Brian measured a lot of his success - and failures - by record sales. While it might not have been the overriding factor, I think it was a factor. Yes, the quality of the Beatles' music was important, no denying that. But, when the Beatles were dominating the sales charts, right through Sgt. Pepper's, Brian must've thought, "I'll never win....." And that might've influenced him to not try as hard, or ultimately, give up trying.

[donald]

Brian was probably more like a young  artist who put his full creativity and talent into a work and wanted validation and recognition......uncertain of himself...needing the approval of others.  Wasn't that the deal with the Wilson boys?
Could never get validation from dad no matter how hard they tried?

[Amanda Hart]

Brian was probably more like a young  artist who put his full creativity and talent into a work and wanted validation and recognition......uncertain of himself...needing the approval of others.  Wasn't that the deal with the Wilson boys?
Could never get validation from dad no matter how hard they tried?

I agree with this entirely.  He was a naturally shy young man that found his voice in music and associated his music with his being; thus he equated sales of his records with his worthiness as a person.  When sales were down and people questioned what he was doing it was devestating to him because he felt like the whole world was rejecting him, not just as a songwriter or singer but as a man.

[punkinhead]

I believe Paul played She's Leaving Home at that vegetables session...

Also, when the Beatles 1 came out, there was a 2-hour documentry about the Beatles (change the world or something like that) on ABC & it had Brian talking about how great Sgt. Pepper sounded when it came out.

[buddhahat]

Without wanting to get into the old and equally tiresome Beach Boys vs. Beatles discussion, you really have to wonder why someone might be intimidated by Pepper who still had stuff like Surf's Up and Cabinessence up his sleeve.

Yeah, I've always felt the same. Except for Strawberry Fields Forever and A Day in the Life I can't see any Beatles product from that era standing along side even the most minor SMiLE fragment. Pepper is more like Piper at the Gates of Dawn, which is an album I wonder if BW ever heard...

But I don't think you can underestimate the brilliance of Pepper in that it had both artistic credibility and mass appeal. I agree that Cabinessence is the most magnificent piece of work and is musically more interesting to me than most of Sgt. pepper, but I think it's quite alienating to the average listener, as is almost every Smile song bar Good Vibrations, Surf's Up and Heroes & Villains. Pepper songs like A Day in The Life manage to be lyrically oblique, yet still resonate with the average listener. With A Little Help from My Friends has trippy, nonsense lyrics, yet is a song that a 5 year old or your gran can sing along with, which is quite astonishing when you think about it. However I think VDP's lyrics are a little too arty for your average Joe, and this would have severely limited Smile's popularity had it been released in 67. Brian must have been worried about Smile's potential lack of popular appeal and like everyone else at the time was probably in awe of The Beatles' ability to be both avant-garde and have cross-generational appeal.

[Shane]

"But I don't think you can underestimate the brilliance of Pepper in that it had both artistic credibility and mass appeal. I agree that Cabinessence is the most magnificent piece of work and musically it's more interesting to me than many Beatles tunes but I think it's quite alienating to the average listener, as is almost every Smile song bar Good Vibrations, Surf's Up and Heroes & Villains. Pepper songs like A Day in The Life manage to be lyrically oblique, yet still resonate with the average listener. I think VDP's lyrics are a little too arty for your average Joe, and this would have severely limited Smile's popularity had it been released in 67. Brian must have been worried about Smile's potential lack of popular appeal and like everyone else at the time was probably in awe of The Beatles' ability to be both avant-garde and popular."


This statement really hits the nail on the head.  In Good Vibrations, Brian captured (for a brief moment) the ability to move forward artistically, while making something that was palatable to the masses.  The Beatles captured it for an entire album with Sgt. Peppers.

[buddhahat]

"But I don't think you can underestimate the brilliance of Pepper in that it had both artistic credibility and mass appeal. I agree that Cabinessence is the most magnificent piece of work and musically it's more interesting to me than many Beatles tunes but I think it's quite alienating to the average listener, as is almost every Smile song bar Good Vibrations, Surf's Up and Heroes & Villains. Pepper songs like A Day in The Life manage to be lyrically oblique, yet still resonate with the average listener. I think VDP's lyrics are a little too arty for your average Joe, and this would have severely limited Smile's popularity had it been released in 67. Brian must have been worried about Smile's potential lack of popular appeal and like everyone else at the time was probably in awe of The Beatles' ability to be both avant-garde and popular."


This statement really hits the nail on the head.  In Good Vibrations, Brian captured (for a brief moment) the ability to move forward artistically, while making something that was palatable to the masses.  The Beatles captured it for an entire album with Sgt. Peppers.

Absolutely. If only Mike Love and Brian could've sustained the perfect equilibrium of popular vs. avant-garde that they achieved with Good Vibrations, over an entire album - that would've been the record that blew Pepper out of the water! In reality however I don't think Love's lyrics would have had the depth necessary to compliment the complexity of Brian's Smile compositions.

[Dove Nested Towers]

It would have definitely been jarring to have Mike's Lyrics grafted onto the rest of the Smile
music. "Good Vibrations" was a unique, stand-alone piece of work, not intended for Smile.

"Sgt. Pepper's" had an originality and universality that undoubtedly intimidated Brian to some degree, because he knew that Smile couldn't compete with it on those terms. But if it had been
finished and released it would have withstood scrutiny on it's own merits, blew as many minds,
albeit minds with a more abstract and oblique bent, certainly received critical acclaim, and taken its place as a cerebral and utterly inspired and unprecedented album.

It would be truly fascinating to know precisely what the overall contemporary response and consensus would have been.

[Dancing Bear]

Penny Lane / Strawberry Fields Forever was released as early as Feb'67. What was Brian's reaction to it?

[mikeyj]

Penny Lane / Strawberry Fields Forever was released as early as Feb'67. What was Brian's reaction to it?

On the SMiLE documentary, Michael Vosse said he was with Brian in a car when they first heard it on the radio and then Brian just sat there all quiet and said "they did it already"... and then Vosse said he burst out laughing and then Brian did too... but he said that at the moment Brian said that he seemed very serious.

Anyway, thanks for the responses everyone... I myself have never really been a big admirer of Pepper... I've never seen what was so great about it... I mean there is some great stuff on it ("A Day In The Life", "With A Little Help...", "She's Leaving Home" etc..) but overall I don't think the songs are as good as they were on say Rubber Soul (my personal fav.) and Revolver, but that's just me

[buddhahat]

It would have definitely been jarring to have Mike's Lyrics grafted onto the rest of the Smile
music. "Good Vibrations" was a unique, stand-alone piece of work, not intended for Smile.

"Sgt. Pepper's" had an originality and universality that undoubtedly intimidated Brian to some degree, because he knew that Smile couldn't compete with it on those terms. But if it had been
finished and released it would have withstood scrutiny on it's own merits, blew as many minds,
albeit minds with a more abstract and oblique bent, certainly received critical acclaim, and taken its place as a cerebral and utterly inspired and unprecedented album.

It would be truly fascinating to know precisely what the overall contemporary response and consensus would have been.

I think had Smile been released in 67 it would have confused the record buying public - I don't think it would've been a commercial success at all, but I agree that it would've still blown a lot of minds (or those with more sophisticated tastes!) and, if not immediately, the critical response would have eventually have been very positive. I do think that Sgt Pepper's colossal success was in large part down to the inclusivity of the music, and that in being a piece of art that everyone, young or old, could appreciate, it reflected the utopian ideals of the time and captured the zeitgeist in a way that the exclusively intellectual Smile could never have done.

[matt-zeus]

I love this type of discussion, because it eludes us (well, me for one) how Brian indeed could feel intimidated by any other artist or band. But, and this is the $ 1.000.000 prize question, did he (ever) perceive himself as a great artist? With tricks up his sleeve? I'd say no. Many truly great artists didn't, don't have an inkling of an idea of how great their achievements are in the context of others' work. I'd go so far as to say that they don't have any urge to 'compete'. They don't create art in any conscious form, they do what they do (or what they feel they have to do), period. See van Gogh, see Beethoven, see Bach. Bach composed in the service of God with a strict discipline (apart from rearing a bunch of unruly kids). He worked his *ss off, but not to be celebrated by all generations after him, nor to impress other artists. He got his commissions and fulfilled his duties.
For me Mike Love was the competitive spirit in the band, which typifies the man for me. Being a very average composer himself, Love was keen on 'the formula', the image, the money, and making hits: i.e. being competitive, getting to #1. Brian was nothing of all that. He was insecure, didn't feel like a star ever, shied away from the stage, it's familiar territory. If he stated that he felt intimidated by the Beatles at any point, I think he meant the public and critical adoration, so: the validation. Perhaps he thought that if so many others worshipped the Fab Four, then he himself must be inherently inferior. Something like the democratic weight the masses put upon him.   
If this line of thinking/feeling held him back from finishing SMiLE in the end, then that is very, very sad.

Though Brian has said on numerous occasions that he is/was very competitive, he would hear something and then try do better to 'beat' the other bands, hearing 'Rubber Soul' is a case in point of his competitive nature. Brians competitive nature might have a lot to answer for with regards to some of his problems.
Mike might be competitive, but his desire not to progress musically or to go along with Brians progression shows that though he wanted to better other bands he didn't actually invest in trying to be one step ahead of everyone else which would have been better than sticking with the formula.

[Howie Edelson]

I think that "Strawberry/Penny" is a tremendous factor in the demise of "Smile" that's often overlooked. That said, I don't think that Brian was ever NOT blown away, or felt as if he was chasing the Beatles. Even now. Never forget that the WORLD was in love with the Beatles. And they were cool -- in EVERY ERA. Everything about them was fascinating. And although Brian went "symphonic" first, the Beatles trumped that because they were a real band with real roles. They didn't need Lyle Ritz. They didn't need a guy who wasn't friends with the majority of the band to convey their message. No slight against VDP -- or Tony Asher for that matter -- but "Pepper," with all the trickery and studio overdubs, is still wholly imagined and executed by the Beatles. Their words, their music, their fingers on the steel, skin, and wood. John Lennon's words were beloved because it was coming out of his mind. He thought of them.

I love the 1966/1967 "Smile." Probably more than "Pet Sounds" -- not as much as "Wild Honey." But Brian was absolutely right that day in Vosse's car. They DID do it first. LITERALLY in seven minutes the Beatles kicked "Smile's" ass.

[buddhahat]

But Brian was absolutely right that day in Vosse's car. They DID do it first. LITERALLY in seven minutes the Beatles kicked "Smile's" ass.

I think this is a very good point which has a lot of truth in it.

[John]

Awesome post, Howie.

[grillo]

"Pepper," with all the trickery and studio overdubs, is still wholly imagined and executed by the Beatles. Their words, their music, their fingers on the steel, skin, and wood. John Lennon's words were beloved because it was coming out of his mind. He thought of them.

I love the 1966/1967 "Smile." Probably more than "Pet Sounds" -- not as much as "Wild Honey." But Brian was absolutely right that day in Vosse's car. They DID do it first. LITERALLY in seven minutes the Beatles kicked "Smile's" ass.

Ehh...Anybody ever hear of George Martin? Pretty sure he kinda pulled that one together. Just a little something you might want to chew on...

[Alex]

However I think VDP's lyrics are a little too arty for your average Joe, and this would have severely limited Smile's popularity had it been released in 67. Brian must have been worried about Smile's potential lack of popular appeal and like everyone else at the time was probably in awe of The Beatles' ability to be both avant-garde and have cross-generational appeal.

Dylan's lyrics were sometimes just as "out there" as VDP's, yet he still managed to sell shitloads of records.