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Author Topic: Sgt. Pepper blew his mind?  (Read 21888 times)
the captain
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« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2008, 06:10:02 PM »

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However I think VDP's lyrics are a little too arty for your average Joe, and this would have severely limited Smile's popularity had it been released in 67. Brian must have been worried about Smile's potential lack of popular appeal and like everyone else at the time was probably in awe of The Beatles' ability to be both avant-garde and have cross-generational appeal.

Dylan's lyrics were sometimes just as "out there" as VDP's, yet he still managed to sell shitloads of records.
Dylan did sell a lot of records, but unless I'm mistaken he wasn't in the Beach Boys or Beatles league in those days--not even close. He had more influence than sales.
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2008, 06:47:04 PM »

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However I think VDP's lyrics are a little too arty for your average Joe, and this would have severely limited Smile's popularity had it been released in 67. Brian must have been worried about Smile's potential lack of popular appeal and like everyone else at the time was probably in awe of The Beatles' ability to be both avant-garde and have cross-generational appeal.

Dylan's lyrics were sometimes just as "out there" as VDP's, yet he still managed to sell shitloads of records.
Dylan did sell a lot of records, but unless I'm mistaken he wasn't in the Beach Boys or Beatles league in those days--not even close. He had more influence than sales.

I don't have the figures in front of me, but, as far as album sales are concerned, I think Dylan was more "in the league" of The Beatles and especially The Beach Boys than you think.

However, I don't think most of Dylan's lyrics fall into that "psychedelic" category that we're discussing in this thread. Yeah, they were "out there", but in a different way than "Strawberry Fields Forever" or Sgt. Pepper's. Most of Dylan's lyrics were more poetic and biting than "druggy", although, obviously, some of his his words reached that area.

Again, keeping with the thread topic about Brian's mind being blown by Sgt. Pepper, I think Mike Love made the decision first, but Brian made the final determination. I'm paraphrasing Brian, who was talking about Mike's position, when he said, "It wasn't that SMiLE wasn't good, it just wasn't right for us (The Beach Boys)".

Brian obviously wanted the Beach Boys' fans to like the music, not be blown away by it. So he did Smiley Smile.... Tongue
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Jon Stebbins
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« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2008, 06:49:06 PM »

Dylan wasn't the big sales competition for The Beatles. Actually the top selling act in the U.S. in 1967 was The Monkees by a mile, they outsold The Beatles and The Stones COMBINED during '67.
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« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2008, 06:52:56 PM »

Dylan wasn't the big sales competition for The Beatles. Actually the top selling act in the U.S. in 1967 was The Monkees by a mile, they outsold The Beatles and The Stones COMBINED during '67.

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« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2008, 08:24:54 PM »

Dylan was never a major seller. In '65, '66 he was selling about 100 - 150,000 copies to every Beatles million. As far as George Martin (and/or Geoff Emerick), he was facilitating the music the Beatles were creating -- we've heard his spiel ad nauseum ever since. Even if 'Smile' had "beaten" 'Pepper' -- it would've made 'Pet Sounds' look like a blockbuster. Even when the world WAS "ready for it" -- with more pre-release press than ANY ALBUM IN HISTORY -- what was it, a Top 15 album in the States??? (Still -- eight positions higher than 'Give My Regards To Broad Street'- -- ANOTHER LP chock full of flaccid 1966 re-recordings.)

Short of maybe LISTENING to Brian, I personally think that there was nothing that Tony Asher did for 'Pet Sounds' that Mike Love couldn't have done. I think had Mike been taken more seriously by Brian as a lyricist, much of how that era played out might have panned out differently. Had the Beach Boys stayed "romantic," 1967 could have been a much, much different year. "Happy Together," the Association's singles... That niche could've been the BB's. It was competition and validation issues that f*ucked it up for the Beach Boys.

I hate to go into the Beach Boys/Beatles territory because as a member of both "camps," I really don't see how a Beatles fan can't equally be enamored of everything the Beach Boys have done (and vice versa) -- it's coming from the same place. The difference being that The Beatles are The Beatles. There's really The Beatles... and then everything else. All the Beatles needed to do was show up. As brilliant and groundbreaking and original and beautiful as Brian was, both then and now, he needs a mess of help to stand alone.
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« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2008, 09:21:54 PM »

Short of maybe LISTENING to Brian, I personally think that there was nothing that Tony Asher did for 'Pet Sounds' that Mike Love couldn't have done. I think had Mike been taken more seriously by Brian as a lyricist, much of how that era played out might have panned out differently. Had the Beach Boys stayed "romantic," 1967 could have been a much, much different year. "Happy Together," the Association's singles... That niche could've been the BB's. It was competition and validation issues that f*ucked it up for the Beach Boys.

I agree Howie... I think people tend to think of Mike's lyrics like Fun, Fun, Fun or even the later stuff like It's OK etc... but Mike wrote some great lyrics just before Pet Sounds... were they as good as Pet Sounds? Sometimes yes and sometimes no but they always suited Brian's songs perfectly... I mean think of some of Mike's lyrics throughout the 60's-70's in particular (not entirely sure if Brian contributed much to the lyrics): "The Warmth of the Sun", "All I Wanna Do", "Let Him Run Wild", "Good To My Baby", "When I Grow Up (To Be A Man)", "Please Let Me Wonder", "Kiss Me, Baby", "She Knows Me Too Well", "In The Back Of My Mind", "Good Vibrations", "I'm Waiting For The Day", "California Girls", "Help Me, Rhonda", "Wild Honey", "Darlin'", "Thinkin' 'Bout You Baby", "Let The Wind Blow", "Do It Again", "Only With You", "Sound Of Free" etc..

Again I don't know how much of those lyrics he wrote (except for a few of them like Warmth of the Sun which he wrote by himself) and I'm also not saying they are mind blowing lyrics, but they do just as good a job of suiting the songs than Asher's lyrics do for the Pet Sounds songs.

But yeah on another note, I kind of get frustrated when fans say "Pet Sounds is art, all that surf stuff is crap"... well this is just me, but to be honest a lot of times I get more of a kick out of some of the earlier stuff... it's more uptempo and easier to listen to no matter your mood... Pet Sounds, SMiLE etc.. are amazing pieces of art that you can admire and think "holy cow, how did Brian think up of this" but at times I'm not in the mood to listen to Caroline, No etc... I mean it's beautiful but so is a lot of the earlier stuff too.

I hate to go into the Beach Boys/Beatles territory because as a member of both "camps," I really don't see how a Beatles fan can't equally be enamored of everything the Beach Boys have done (and vice versa) -- it's coming from the same place.

Yeah I couldn't agree more Howie, I love both bands almost as much as each other (The Beach Boys slightly edge it) and I think it's stupid to think that you have to choose one and not like the other, both incredible bands... in my opinion, they are both so far ahead artistically of every other group.
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2008, 09:50:36 PM »

Short of maybe LISTENING to Brian, I personally think that there was nothing that Tony Asher did for 'Pet Sounds' that Mike Love couldn't have done. I think had Mike been taken more seriously by Brian as a lyricist, much of how that era played out might have panned out differently. Had the Beach Boys stayed "romantic," 1967 could have been a much, much different year. "Happy Together," the Association's singles... That niche could've been the BB's. It was competition and validation issues that f*ucked it up for the Beach Boys.

I agree Howie... I think people tend to think of Mike's lyrics like Fun, Fun, Fun or even the later stuff like It's OK etc... but Mike wrote some great lyrics just before Pet Sounds... were they as good as Pet Sounds? Sometimes yes and sometimes no but they always suited Brian's songs perfectly... I mean think of some of Mike's lyrics throughout the 60's-70's in particular (not entirely sure if Brian contributed much to the lyrics): "The Warmth of the Sun", "All I Wanna Do", "Let Him Run Wild", "Good To My Baby", "When I Grow Up (To Be A Man)", "Please Let Me Wonder", "Kiss Me, Baby", "She Knows Me Too Well", "In The Back Of My Mind", "Good Vibrations", "I'm Waiting For The Day", "California Girls", "Help Me, Rhonda", "Wild Honey", "Darlin'", "Thinkin' 'Bout You Baby", "Let The Wind Blow", "Do It Again", "Only With You", "Sound Of Free" etc..

Again I don't know how much of those lyrics he wrote (except for a few of them like Warmth of the Sun which he wrote by himself) and I'm also not saying they are mind blowing lyrics, but they do just as good a job of suiting the songs than Asher's lyrics do for the Pet Sounds songs.

But yeah on another note, I kind of get frustrated when fans say "Pet Sounds is art, all that surf stuff is crap"... well this is just me, but to be honest a lot of times I get more of a kick out of some of the earlier stuff... it's more uptempo and easier to listen to no matter your mood... Pet Sounds, SMiLE etc.. are amazing pieces of art that you can admire and think "holy cow, how did Brian think up of this" but at times I'm not in the mood to listen to Caroline, No etc... I mean it's beautiful but so is a lot of the earlier stuff too.

Great post(s).
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« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2008, 11:16:09 PM »

I dont know if I agree. I dont think Mike is bad, but I dont know if he could have come up with something like IJWMFTT.  Listen to him laughing at the words to Hang on to Your Ego. He simply couldnt conceive of where rock was going, he had rocknroll and beach boys music in a little box. He still does. He cant think outside of the early sixties box that he helped create.
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« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2008, 12:28:18 AM »

But Brian was absolutely right that day in Vosse's car. They DID do it first. LITERALLY in seven minutes the Beatles kicked "Smile's" ass.

I think this is a very good point which has a lot of truth in it.

This is probably just me being ignorant but I can't hear too much of a similarity between Penny Lane and Smile. What exactly did the Beatles do first with that? I can hear a bit of a similarity in Strawberry Fields though. Still, I can't see why this one would throw him out of the loop. Now if he had heard A Day In The Life in that car, that'd be a different story.
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Shane
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« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2008, 12:52:13 AM »

In my opinion, to hear the similarity to Penny Lane and Smile (or Pet Sounds, or GV), you have to take a look at the backing track.  I think this is the Beatles at their most Brian Wilson-ish moment.  There's the wide variety of instruments used in the production (i.e. there really isn't much of the Beatles on it... this isn't a two guitars, bass and drums song).  There's a bassline that just goes all over the place, just like Brian's stuff.  To my ears, this production sounds like something that could have been pulled off by the Wrecking Crew.

What would throw Brian out of the loop after hearing this in the car in 1967?  Because it's HIS sound, the sound he created on Pet Sounds...which is the album that had just finished going to #10 on the charts and then disappeared amidst Capitol's marketing push of a Greatest Hits album.  And here were the Beatles, riding towards the top of the charts with this song.
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« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2008, 01:32:03 AM »

What would throw Brian out of the loop after hearing this in the car in 1967?  Because it's HIS sound, the sound he created on Pet Sounds...which is the album that had just finished going to #10 on the charts and then disappeared amidst Capitol's marketing push of a Greatest Hits album.  And here were the Beatles, riding towards the top of the charts with this song.

Shane, this makes perfect sense to me, I hadn't thought of anything concerning Pet Sounds, just wondering where the specific connection with the music of Smile might be. If BW indeed lived in permanent fear of public failure, I can totally see this being quite a damaging experience.

Do we know what Brian's reaction to the Beatles breaking up was?
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« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2008, 01:55:39 AM »

Yes I hear a lot of similarities between the rhythm, and the bass' relationship to the chords in Penny lane and God Only Knows. I think PL was heavily inspired by that particular Pet Sounds song.

As for Strawberry Fields Forever, it's just the most astounding psychedelic song ever. It shares the prettiness of parts of Good Vibrations but has an undermining queasiness to it, which reminds me of the type of counterpoints Brian was doing in songs like Cabinessence, where a beautiful Bacharach type melody is married to the jarring 'Who ran The Iron Horse' section. I think Brian felt that pretty melodies alone were no longer enough to hold the interest of the new 'turned on' audience. Maybe that's why he wasn't entirely satisfied with the original Smile version of Wonderful - it needed some sort of counterpoint to its sweetness. I think with Strawberry Fields, The Beatles had achieved this very effectively - it was a beautiful, melodic pop song, which had a subversive quality which perfectly reflected the LSD experience of not being able to trust one's own senses.
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« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2008, 03:02:29 AM »

Well Brian was in pretty good shape in 1970 compared to any time later but I don't know if the Beatles break up had anything to do with it. I read a quote from shortly before Lennon died that Brian thought they would get back together and tour with the Beach Boys. Like I said Brian was in better shape in 1970 then any time later Grin.
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« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2008, 04:48:26 AM »

I dont know if I agree. I dont think Mike is bad, but I dont know if he could have come up with something like IJWMFTT.  Listen to him laughing at the words to Hang on to Your Ego. He simply couldnt conceive of where rock was going, he had rocknroll and beach boys music in a little box. He still does. He cant think outside of the early sixties box that he helped create.

As I say, take a look at some of Mike's lyrics throughout the 60s (not so much the really early stuff but mostly from '64 onwards) and 70s and do you admit that pretty much all of his lyrics fit the songs really well? So who's to say he couldn't have written introspective lyrics like on Pet Sounds? He was writing some introspective lyrics on Today! anyway.... but yeah of course I doubt he could've written good lyrics for SMiLE (on the whole anyway), but I can imagine Pet Sounds.
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« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2008, 06:10:51 AM »

What would throw Brian out of the loop after hearing this in the car in 1967?  Because it's HIS sound, the sound he created on Pet Sounds...which is the album that had just finished going to #10 on the charts and then disappeared amidst Capitol's marketing push of a Greatest Hits album.  And here were the Beatles, riding towards the top of the charts with this song.

Great point Shane, I didn't think of it like that... but I couldn't agree more... I guess that must've been pretty heartbreaking for Brian

By the way, on a semi-related note, I was reading the NME issue that is solely on the Beatles and it has clippings of letters that people have sent in from the time period and it's pretty funny to read some people's opinion of SFF. I mean this for example: "At last the Beatles have outdone even 'Yellow Submarine' with their worst production to date. 'Strawberry Fields Forever' and 'Penny Lane' are drivelling nonentities of meaningless lyrics and elementary harmonies and music. 'Strawberry Fields' sounds like out of wrk street-corner buskers."

And the response is generally pretty bad to it for some reason... so maybe SMiLE wouldn't have been the success that some people like to believe?
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« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2008, 08:59:02 AM »

Those NME letters are completely anecdotal and really meaningless in the overall picture. PL and SFF were a GIANT success both commercially and critically, there's no disputing that. Using that as an example of why Smile might not have been a success just seems out of context to me. I do think Smile would have gotten the same occasional put-down from fans wanting the BB's innocence to remain as it was in '64...but there were far more people who were looking forward and wanting their art to reflect the horizon and the breaking down of old stereotypes and barriers. I have no doubt the BB's would have been better off had Smile been released in early '67.
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« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2008, 10:15:05 AM »

As usual Jon, you're perfectly informed. Having lived through the waiting period for SMiLE with my classmates in freshman and sophomore years in college and seeing the total let down when SS came out, whyI was laughed out of the dorm! I never gave up though and when 20/20 came out I was revived for life.
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« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2008, 07:10:55 PM »

I think Mike could have stepped up to fit in with whatever Brian threw at him if he had been given the chance. I'm Waiting For The Day sits shoulder to shoulder with any of Tony Asher's great lyrics on Pet Sounds; Good Vibs lyric nails it. All IMHO of course.
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« Reply #43 on: December 03, 2008, 07:14:55 PM »

Those NME letters are completely anecdotal and really meaningless in the overall picture. PL and SFF were a GIANT success both commercially and critically, there's no disputing that. Using that as an example of why Smile might not have been a success just seems out of context to me. I do think Smile would have gotten the same occasional put-down from fans wanting the BB's innocence to remain as it was in '64...but there were far more people who were looking forward and wanting their art to reflect the horizon and the breaking down of old stereotypes and barriers. I have no doubt the BB's would have been better off had Smile been released in early '67.

Yeah you're right Jon... I was just saying that The Beatles are the Beatles, in their heyday they could've released anything and people would've bought it even if they didn't like it... I think PL/SFF got to #1 on the charts but that doesn't mean people liked it...and of course it wasn't the same for the Beach Boys who didn't have huge success with everything they did... and in my opinion some of SMiLE was even further out there than SFF and especially PL (which of course isn't really out there), so maybe a lot of people wouldn't have been ready for it? I dunno, that's sort of what I was getting at... obviously probably wrong (hey, I didn't grow up in that era of course Undecided)
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« Reply #44 on: December 03, 2008, 07:20:41 PM »

Do we know what Brian's reaction to the Beatles breaking up was?

Interesting question, one I have contemplated several times, and it relates to this thread.

Assume that Brian was in a real competition with the Beatles. Is it a coincidence that the BEGINNING of Brian's major retreat coincides with the breakup of The Beatles, right after the recording of Sunflower in late 1969?

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« Reply #45 on: December 03, 2008, 07:33:58 PM »

But Brian was absolutely right that day in Vosse's car. They DID do it first. LITERALLY in seven minutes the Beatles kicked "Smile's" ass.

I think this is a very good point which has a lot of truth in it.
6

Can't really say I agree with Howie's statement here, at least not all of it.  Yes, the Beatles got there first in terms of actual release dates.  Brian's repeated delays kept Smile in the can for too long.  Independent of release dates, I wouldn't say the Beatles "got there" first.  Brian was recording brilliant material in the 6 months prior, stuff that was (in my opinion anyways) every bit as mindblowing as Strawberry Fields.  I would put "Surf's Up" above anything the Beatles ever did, and the crazy section in "A Day In The Life" was very similar to "Fire," which Brian recorded several months before Pepper came out.

Those seven minutes didn't kick Smile's ass, but I think they shook Brian's confidence enough to escalate his increasing self doubts.  Like another poster said, "Penny Lane" was essentially a Beatles attempt at a Pet Sounds track.  I can't imagine this bothering him nearly as much as "Strawberry Fields," which was much more in the "Smile" vein.  I think he heard that song and felt that what he was trying to do was pointless now because it would seem like he was ripping off the Beatles.  It was an overreaction, in my opinion, but given how fragile his mental state was at the time, his mind made it seem catostrophic.  
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« Reply #46 on: December 03, 2008, 09:04:07 PM »

I think they beat him in several ways. Like you point out, a lot of what Brian was trying to accomplish musically with 'Smile' was achieved with "SFF." The whole reason why he enlisted VDP is because he wanted lyrics EXACTLY LIKE THAT. Like he did with Asher on the romantic/personal '66 tunes, for 'Smile' he wanted words as deep as his music was heavy. By late '65, with Lennon/McCartney and Dylan's lyrics, Brian was undoubtedly feeling pretty suburban. As mindblowingly gorgeous as "Surf's Up" is, he's singing another dude's words. "Surf's Up" is LITERALLY perfect on every level, but -- like with 'Smile' as a whole -- there is a slight self-consciousness in it, a need for it to be "important" art that the Beatles (or previously Brian) never needed to chase down. "SFF" is pretty real. It's personal -- and was able to be universally personal. So much of 'Smile' is abstract, which in no way lessens the work or the achievement, but it makes it a far tougher listen than any of the Beatles' music.

The biggest Beach Boys hits -- "Fun," "I Get Around," "Rhonda," "California Girls" "Good Vibes" connected because Brian and Mike's words were coming from the same place as the music.  The same is true of Brian and Asher's work on 'Pet Sounds.' You couldn't see the seams, it sounded and felt effortless. 'Pepper' sounds effortless, fun and loving. 'Smile' is many things -- but not that. "Pepper" was able to hit the world's sweet spot. "Penny Lane" was 'Pet Sounds' on ecstasy -- with the unique thing that always eluded the Beach Boys -- sophistication. The Beatles were European. Stebbins and I were talking a while back about how even in '64 the Beatles seemed so much OLDER. They smoke, they drank, they were that much more hipper than everyone else. They were already men in Hamburg. "Penny Lane" has a European sophistication. They also weren't competitive about their art outside of the band.

I think Brian heard that single and thought -- "not only did they top what I just did, they're nailing what I'm doing NOW."

The main difference is that in 1967 (as they were able to do in every year they were in existence) the world listened to the Beatles and sighed "That's ME." It was as if their music was a sixth sense, or an extention of your own thoughts. There are many reasons why in 1967 a very, very, very small percentage of the world was listening to "Wonderful" and saying "That's ME." The Beatles had the blessing and luxury of being both timeless and timely. Brian was both of those things too, but in 1967 -- sadly, not at the same time. The Beatles beat everybody. It f*cked Brian up because he was the only one else in that "race." Due to their respective audiences and the nature of the business, the world at large wasn't eying Dylan or Holland-Dozier-Holland for the "Next Big Thing." By early 1967 I think it's safe to say the Brian was realising how very 1966 'Smile' was.
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« Reply #47 on: December 03, 2008, 09:43:21 PM »

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, Howie.  Especially your last line about Brian realizing how "1966" Smile was...like I said before, the constant delays harmed Smile far more than Brian probably thought they would.   

I guess I just don't see something like "Strawberry Fields" as being universal and accessable.  Compared to "Surf's Up" or "Wonderful," sure, but I don't really hear any clear message in the lyrics.  I've always thought that it was the production that makes that song fly, not the lyrics.  With songs like that and "A Day In The Life," I think the Beatles were in the same self-important "artsy" place that Brian and Van Dyke were at when creating Smile. 

You seem to be suggesting that the Beatles "beat" Brian because they not only came first, but that they did it in a more effortless fashion with more accessable music.  I suppose I just don't really buy that.  Rather, I think that from the very beginning, the music world was more willing to accept growth and sophistication from the Beatles than they were from the Beach Boys.  The Beatles were free to do whatever they wanted artistically, and they certainly took advantage and constantly pushed the artistic envelope.  Pepper coming from the Beatles was an easier sell than Smile from the Beach Boys would have been. 
 
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« Reply #48 on: December 03, 2008, 09:47:29 PM »

'Pepper' sounds effortless, fun and loving. 'Smile' is many things -- but not that. "Pepper" was able to hit the world's sweet spot. "Penny Lane" was 'Pet Sounds' on ecstasy -- with the unique thing that always eluded the Beach Boys -- sophistication. The Beatles were European. Stebbins and I were talking a while back about how even in '64 the Beatles seemed so much OLDER. They smoke, they drank, they were that much more hipper than everyone else. They were already men in Hamburg. "Penny Lane" has a European sophistication. They also weren't competitive about their art outside of the band.

Again this is just me but with the exception of a few tracks (like SFF, A Day In The Life etc..) I have always thought that some of their stuff from around this time was over-rated...not saying I don't like it (I like almost all of the Beatles stuff to some degree) but I really don't understand Pepper... heck, George Harrison and Lennon weren't all that keen on the album either... And you also stated "The main difference is that in 1967 (as they were able to do in every year they were in existence) the world listened to the Beatles and sighed "That's ME.""... well I'm not so sure on that either... so people heard I Am The Walrus and thought "gee that's me"? Don't get me wrong I love I Am The Walrus but I think you are giving the Beatles too much credit in some cases... I just think The Beatles were better (on average) at making more catchy pop tunes that people could sing along to and dance to... but to me, that doesn't make it better.

I think Brian heard that single and thought -- "not only did they top what I just did, they're nailing what I'm doing NOW."

Again, I dunno Howie, I thought SMiLE was him trying to do a whole album similar to Good Vibrations (and obviously that came out long before SFF)... I just think it's true that Brian was growing paranoid around this time. I mean think of the story with Mrs. O'Leary's Cow, him thinking he was being spied on by Murry, him seeing that movie that he thought Phil Spector made to get at him etc... I also reckon (as other people have said) that Brian just wondered "how do the Beatles seem to go to the #1 spot all the time"... I've heard him say he doesn't understand what all the fuss was over I Want To Hold Your Hand etc.. so as someone else said earlier for Pet Sounds to fail must've been heartbreaking after he put so much effort into it and yet the Beatles do the same sort of arty stuff and it flies to #1.... as Chris says, people were willing to accept growth and sophistication from the Beatles moreso than the Beach Boys.... and that (to me anyway) is SOOO damn true.... plus the Beatles were just better decision makers in terms of what to release and what not to release and they had better promotion etc...
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Howie Edelson
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« Reply #49 on: December 03, 2008, 10:12:39 PM »

Mikey -- a BILLION more people were thinking/feeling/saying "I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together" than "Though it's hard I try not to look at my wind chimes" or "She'll return in love with her liberty."

This isn't opinion. It's history.



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