Sgt. Pepper blew his mind?

[lance]

I guess I like BWPS better than Sgt. Pepper's, but of course it would not have been released that way. But even if it had been released, sequenced that way(like say a finished purple chick mix) it would have not been a number one album. Other than Good Vibrations it would not have had a great single on it--well, Heroes and Villains, maybe, but that is not a top five hit, the kind that pushes an album to the top spot at an extremely competitive time. It pushed boundaries in a different way than SGT Pepper, which was sort of a triumph of production detail and engineering--I think both those elements are really what makes Pepper Pepper. With Smile it is more about the vibe and the eerie/beautiful feeling--yeah, that music moves me more, but Sgt. Pepper is infinitely more commercial.

[MBE]

I don't think that SMiLE would have been SMiLE with Mike's lyrics.  Mike has a talent for writing words that express straightforward, simple, everyday things, sometimes with a clever twist of phrase.  But obviously his words were too corny or straightforward for Brian at the time and weren't turning him on or in tune with the music he was creating - otherwise, Brian wouldn't have sought out another lyricist in the first place.

As for GV, I personally like some of Tony Asher's lyrics better than Mike's.  The stuff about "it's weird how she comes in so strong" and "I wonder what she's picking up from me" capture the whole vibrationessence thing better for me, and I'm glad Brian used them on BWPS.  I just wish that he'd gotten Tony or Van Dyke to give him a new opening line.  "I love the colorful clothes she wears" doesn't go smoothly into "and she's already working on my brain."

Anyway, I don't think that even letting Mike do some of the lyrics on SMiLE would've helped Brian.  Mike probably still would've hated that the music wasn't following the formula, and 1967-2003 would thus still have been the era of "Brian Wilson Prevents SMiLE."

Mike liked most of the music in truth, but Van Dyke is a big part of what makes Smile different. I think Mike could have added a few hooks to some of the tracks, but Van Dyke had a vision that was right for Brian at that moment. I love Tony Ashers work on Pet Sounds but nothing else he did with Brian impressed me. I think his Good Vibrations lyrics are very rough.

This isn't about your post really but I like to say this every so often. Brian ultimately expressed a lot of doubt himself once Van Dyke left the project so it's not fair to keep harping on Mike. Brian was the leader then and Mike didn't make many major decisions for the band until Murry died and his brother became manager. I just don't see that Smiley would have been OK if Smile wasn't. It doesn't make sense. Sure Mike had one or two more credits but it's not significant in that Smiley is very uncommercial. Brian lost faith in it and that's the final factor that ended Smile. Peter Aims Carlin made this point very eloquently in his book when talking about the Heroes Leid In Hawaii spoof.

[smile-holland]

Other than Good Vibrations it would not have had a great single on it--well, Heroes and Villains, maybe, but that is not a top five hit, the kind that pushes an album to the top spot at an extremely competitive time.

Speaking if singles. How many were pulled from Sgt. Pepper? Unless I'm mistaken that number was zero (although With A Little Help and Lucy got a lot of airplay I think).
Maybe it would've been one step too far for Capitol and/or the Boys, but except maybe for H&V, Brian could've been mainly aiming for a great album and not for a string of hitsingles. Sgt. Pepper didn't need one (a hitsingle), why would SMiLE?

[lance]

Good point.

[buddhahat]

Pepper can be an enjoyable listen, but it never grabbed me emotionally the way Pet Sounds did.

No this is true. I often listen to The piano demo of Don't Talk and just marvel at how, with BW's best songs, the emotion was already there before he even went near a studio. I always find that demo breathtaking. If only he'd done similar demos for other songs on Pet Sounds. Can you imagine a Brian piano demo of God Only Knows?! Beatles songs don't pack quite the same punch for me, although hearing early versions of Strawberry Fields and Day In The Life is pretty stunning.

[Howie Edelson]

There were no singles taken from PEPPER because "SFF/Penny" was pulled as a teaser, and "All You Need Is Love" followed only five weeks later. It was also part of the '67 EMI contract that no compilations or singles without their choosing could be slapped on the market without their complete consent. Never forget, going as far back as 1964 in the States, the Beatles were the first AOR group with their ENTIRE albums recieving saturation airplay on AM then eventually FM stations. 'The White Album' also had no singles pulled from it. A Beatles LP WAS a single.

Had SMILE come to fruition, I believe, "Vegetables" was Brian's ONLY shot at a Top Five.

[Ganz Allein]

This isn't about your post really but I like to say this every so often. Brian ultimately expressed a lot of doubt himself once Van Dyke left the project so it's not fair to keep harping on Mike. Brian was the leader then and Mike didn't make many major decisions for the band until Murry died and his brother became manager. I just don't see that Smiley would have been OK if Smile wasn't. It doesn't make sense. Sure Mike had one or two more credits but it's not significant in that Smiley is very uncommercial. Brian lost faith in it and that's the final factor that ended Smile. Peter Aims Carlin made this point very eloquently in his book when talking about the Heroes Leid In Hawaii spoof.

You're right.  I shouldn't have put so much of the blame on Mike as he was only one part of the negativity Brian was experiencing.  When you listen to interviews about how the SMiLE songs were created, Brian always says that Van Dyke helped with some of the music and direction.  It makes sense that he really needed Van Dyke to help tie everything together back then, just as he did with BWPS, and therefore lost confidence and became filled with doubt once Van Dyke left.

It's kind of like "A Day in the Life" on "Sgt. Pepper."  John had the verses, Paul had the "I'd love to turn you on" bit and the bridge, and both had ideas about the orchestral freakout section.  That song wouldn't have turned out like it did without their ideas coming together.  Similarly, SMiLE just wouldn't have been what it was/is without the intimate association of Brian and Van Dyke.

[MBE]

Ganz Allein very good post. It's really hard to be objective because Smile is this big legend now. I understand why Mike was concerned about some of the lyrics as they are more poetic then almost anything done in rock up to that point. I also understand why Brian felt hurt about Mike's reservations, but after the Fire sessions he wasn't so sure about the album either. Van Dyke probably felt that Brian wasn't sticking up for him enough. As late as May Mike made a comment about Smile coming out, and Brian was holding some sessions so I don't know if there was one definite thing that stoped the album.  The Capitol lawsuit may be the answer as there was some question as to if the Beach Boys were even staying with the label. By the time the dust settled I think they just wanted to put an album out after so long a wait and thus we got Smiley. I mean there were still plans to issue Smile on brother in late 1967 so who knows really. I suspect that Brian and the others were moving in a different direction musically and simply wanted to record their new material.

[Sam_BFC]

I often listen to The piano demo of Don't Talk and just marvel at how, with BW's best songs, the emotion was already there before he even went near a studio. I always find that demo breathtaking.

While I agree with you on this, do you not think the reason we have this response to the demo could be because we already know the song and therefore relate it to the song?

I say this because I even found it a little thrilling hearing brian play the opening to Sail On Sailor on piano for the podcast series and if you seperate it from the song it probably wouldn't sound AS impressive.

[Summer_Days]

I just don't buy Derek Taylor's "Brian locking himself in his room" reaction to Sgt. Pepper, as someone else mentioned in this thread. Doesn't sound right. Sure, I'm betting the album blew Brian away, but good god, that's just hyperbole. The Beatles blew his mind once more, and then Brian worked on Smiley Smile. It's not like he locked himself away in depression and coping with his hangups, like so many say. That came later.

[Daniel S.]

I dont know if I agree. I dont think Mike is bad, but I dont know if he could have come up with something like IJWMFTT.  Listen to him laughing at the words to Hang on to Your Ego. He simply couldnt conceive of where rock was going, he had rocknroll and beach boys music in a little box. He still does. He cant think outside of the early sixties box that he helped create.

As I say, take a look at some of Mike's lyrics throughout the 60s (not so much the really early stuff but mostly from '64 onwards) and 70s and do you admit that pretty much all of his lyrics fit the songs really well? So who's to say he couldn't have written introspective lyrics like on Pet Sounds? He was writing some introspective lyrics on Today! anyway.... but yeah of course I doubt he could've written good lyrics for SMiLE (on the whole anyway), but I can imagine Pet Sounds.

I've got to tell you that I think Good Vibrations is one of the greatest pop songs in history and a lot of it has to do with Mike Love's lyrics, which he wrote by himself. I also feel that the lyrics to Good Vibrations are better than any of the lyrics Van Dyke Parks came up with for Smile EXCLUDING Surf's Up. The lyrics to Good Vibrations and Surf's Up are equally powerful.

[Aegir]

I'm a pretty big Mike Love apologist, but most people don't know the lyrics to Good Vibrations.

[Daniel S.]

I'm a pretty big Mike Love apologist, but most people don't know the lyrics to Good Vibrations.

 

[Chris Brown]

I've got to tell you that I think Good Vibrations is one of the greatest pop songs in history and a lot of it has to do with Mike Love's lyrics, which he wrote by himself.

Got to disagree with you a bit here.  Good Vibrations is indeed one of the greatest pop songs ever, but I don't think it had virtually anything to do with the lyrics.  The music and production was so innovative that I honestly don't believe the lyrics made any difference.  It would have been a hit with any lyrics, whether written by Mike, Tony Asher, Van Dyke, whoever. 

Don't get me wrong, I think Mike's lyrics are great (slightly better than Asher's, in my opinion).  But ultimately the song was so successful because it was musically inventive, and pushed the limits of how the recording studio could be used as an instrument in and of itself.  On the list of elements that make Good Vibrations a great song, the lyrics don't rank that high for me.

[Aegir]

I'm a pretty big Mike Love apologist, but most people don't know the lyrics to Good Vibrations.

 

I mean, I usually don't like it when people say Mike Love's contributions are worthless and Brian is the reason all the songs hit it big, but I think in the case of Good Vibrations, I believe that was the case. I like the lyrics, but before I became an obsessive Beach Boys fan I had no idea what they were and I think most casual fans don't know any of the words to the song other than "I'm pickin' up Good Vibrations".

[shelter]

I don't think casual listeners really care about lyrics at all. You can sing about taking out the garbage and as long as the song's got a good hook, people will be into it...