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Author Topic: Redwood- tell everything you know!  (Read 16588 times)
Jonas
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« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2011, 05:55:24 AM »

what if Brian had used Redwood to finish SMiLE

This can go either way right now, it dies here, or we go through 15 pages of arguing over whether or not Redwood had the capacity to finish SMiLE...annnnd go!
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« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2011, 06:05:15 AM »

what if Brian had used Redwood to finish SMiLE

This can go either way right now, it dies here, or we go through 15 pages of arguing over whether or not Redwood had the capacity to finish SMiLE...annnnd go!

Ahhhh.... the blending of those three dog voices, the good the bad and the ugly, would shirley have been able to handle all the nuances of Smile!
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« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2011, 07:36:03 AM »

what if Brian had used Redwood to finish SMiLE

He had the chance, he didn't. Next.
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« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2011, 07:47:18 AM »

What if he asks Andrew G. Doe to help him finish the vocals now? Grin
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« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2011, 07:58:41 AM »

In the Brian Wilson: Songwriter DVD, Hutton says that Mike was pissed when he found out that Redwood were recording Darlin' (and that he understood him being upset).  Danny suggests that the lyrics were written for him, as he was always calling people "Darlin'."  But didn't Mike write the lyrics?


Yes, Mike is credited, so I guess he wrote the lyrics.
The other story sounds like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlecMWk_lUU

As the spoken parts were read by Brian, the question is, who wrote those words and how accurate are they? Maybe they just needed a way to introduce the song and have it sung by TDN. Brian doesn't mention Danny Hutton when he talks about "Darlin'" on the Roxy-album interview (of course that doesn't mean very much).
I also wonder why Brian re-used "Thinking about you baby" for "Darlin" and then went back to the original with American Spring. Not that there's anything wrong with it, I love all three versions, but it seems kinda odd. How came he up with that idea?




Wikipedia has Negron's quote:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_to_Get_Alone

"It all came to a head...when Mike Love, Carl Wilson and Al Jardine came to the studio and heard our version of 'Time To Get Alone'...They manoeuvred Brian into the control booth and reduced him to tears. It was a cruel and pathetic scene. Danny, Cory and I were in the studio and could see it all happening through the control-booth window. It was as if Brian had turned into a little boy. The conversation appeared quiet and calm, but we could tell it was emotional and intense. The others were doing most of the talking, like overbearing, controlling parents. Brian would move away, and they would block his escape. We couldn't hear what was being said, but I think a good lip-reader would have picked up something like, 'We don't give a sh*t about these guys, and we want those songs for us.' We could actually feel Brian crumbling, and when he came out of the booth, a tear dropped down his cheek. His head was lowered and his shoulders sagged. It was the body language of a child who had just been scolded and punished. And this brilliant musical icon - whose songs defined one generation and influenced another - weepingly told us, 'We can't do this. I have to give the songs to them. They're family and I have to take care of my family. They want the songs. I'll give you any amount of money you want to finish an album, but I can't produce it. They won't let me.'"
« Last Edit: April 05, 2011, 08:02:46 AM by Rocker » Logged

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« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2011, 08:32:52 AM »

What if he asks Andrew G. Doe to help him finish the vocals now? Grin

I'd consider it.
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« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2011, 09:01:55 AM »

In the Brian Wilson: Songwriter DVD, Hutton says that Mike was pissed when he found out that Redwood were recording Darlin' (and that he understood him being upset).  Danny suggests that the lyrics were written for him, as he was always calling people "Darlin'."  But didn't Mike write the lyrics?


Yes, Mike is credited, so I guess he wrote the lyrics.
The other story sounds like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlecMWk_lUU

As the spoken parts were read by Brian, the question is, who wrote those words and how accurate are they? Maybe they just needed a way to introduce the song and have it sung by TDN. Brian doesn't mention Danny Hutton when he talks about "Darlin'" on the Roxy-album interview (of course that doesn't mean very much).
I also wonder why Brian re-used "Thinking about you baby" for "Darlin" and then went back to the original with American Spring. Not that there's anything wrong with it, I love all three versions, but it seems kinda odd. How came he up with that idea?




Wikipedia has Negron's quote:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_to_Get_Alone

"It all came to a head...when Mike Love, Carl Wilson and Al Jardine came to the studio and heard our version of 'Time To Get Alone'...They manoeuvred Brian into the control booth and reduced him to tears. It was a cruel and pathetic scene. Danny, Cory and I were in the studio and could see it all happening through the control-booth window. It was as if Brian had turned into a little boy. The conversation appeared quiet and calm, but we could tell it was emotional and intense. The others were doing most of the talking, like overbearing, controlling parents. Brian would move away, and they would block his escape. We couldn't hear what was being said, but I think a good lip-reader would have picked up something like, 'We don't give a merda about these guys, and we want those songs for us.' We could actually feel Brian crumbling, and when he came out of the booth, a tear dropped down his cheek. His head was lowered and his shoulders sagged. It was the body language of a child who had just been scolded and punished. And this brilliant musical icon - whose songs defined one generation and influenced another - weepingly told us, 'We can't do this. I have to give the songs to them. They're family and I have to take care of my family. They want the songs. I'll give you any amount of money you want to finish an album, but I can't produce it. They won't let me.'"
I remember reading that story in the Domenic Priore Smile book (not LLVS) - if that account of events is true (and it doesn't seem implausible) then that's very sad...
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« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2011, 10:13:40 AM »

In the others defense, they'd just had the first big flop album of their career. Timing wise, Brian giving the (by far) 2 best songs he had lying around to another group was not the smartest thing he could do.
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« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2011, 10:19:05 AM »

In the Brian Wilson: Songwriter DVD, Hutton says that Mike was pissed when he found out that Redwood were recording Darlin' (and that he understood him being upset).  Danny suggests that the lyrics were written for him, as he was always calling people "Darlin'."  But didn't Mike write the lyrics?
WOW! I was unaware that Redwood was discussed on that doc!
Though I haven't seen it yet, this excites me even more to get it.
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« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2011, 11:55:16 AM »

I also wonder why Brian re-used "Thinking about you baby" for "Darlin" and then went back to the original with American Spring. Not that there's anything wrong with it, I love all three versions, but it seems kinda odd. How came he up with that idea?

Didn't he explain this is in that weird long interview with Diane Brian did to promote the spring album?  I seem to recall that it was Diane's idea, who must have remembered the song from the first time, and that Brian just went along with it?  Someone correct me if I'm wrong. 
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« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2011, 12:00:07 PM »

Wikipedia leaves out the part where Negron says he doesn't blame the other Beach Boys for wanting those songs for themselves and would have done the same thing if he were them...... Also, if Mike did indeed write the lyrics for Darlin, then he indeed had every right to want his own group to record the song. I'd like to know how this song came about exactly. So, Brian wants to write a song about Danny Hutton called Darlin so he grabs Mike who writes some words???
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« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2011, 12:03:20 PM »

In the others defense, they'd just had the first big flop album of their career. Timing wise, Brian giving the (by far) 2 best songs he had lying around to another group was not the smartest thing he could do.

The purpose of setting up Brother Records was to discover, promote, and be successful with other artists which would then put more capital back into the parent company...at least that was the initial thought, much like Apple Records and The Beatles. It was as much an outlet for the band members to work outside the label "Beach Boys" and make their own mark. Mike Love tried it and failed too. Brian just happened to have a pocketful of killer, catchy "new" songs which he thought would work for another group, and Brother was set up for him to do just that.

I think it was smart of him if he was going with the intent of Brother Records as an outlet for this kind of thing. If the Beach Boys got jealous, that's their problem, IMO, not Brian for actually finding a band and having good songs to record with that band. What did Al or Carl bring to Brother at that same time? That's my point.

Brian was doing outside production and writing songs for other artists since the Beach Boys first got big. Find the post about the land deal Nick Grillo tried to work for them at this same time - the "Boys" were not lacking for money at this time at all. The issue of family loyalty is huge in this particular story, and Brian caught the most hell for it.
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« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2011, 12:41:38 PM »

Wikipedia leaves out the part where Negron says he doesn't blame the other Beach Boys for wanting those songs for themselves and would have done the same thing if he were them...... Also, if Mike did indeed write the lyrics for Darlin, then he indeed had every right to want his own group to record the song. I'd like to know how this song came about exactly. So, Brian wants to write a song about Danny Hutton called Darlin so he grabs Mike who writes some words???

Perhaps Brian wrote all the lyrics to "Darlin'" himself and gave Mike credit since they had written "Thinkin' About My Baby" together. Or, Brian came up with the new chorus and Mike wrote the new verses. This could have been just another collaboration between them and Mike was unaware (or didn't initially care) that the track would go to Redwood.
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« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2011, 01:32:43 PM »

That's a good possibility. I'd venture to guess that Brian had the title and concept and Mike wrote the lyrics with Brian having input on the chorus. Just my best guess.
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« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2011, 01:34:36 PM »

And yeah, I'd assume Mike thought he was writing another song for The Beach Boys with Brian. I doubt Brian said "Hey come here, Mike! I got this great melody and want to turn it into a killer song and give it to these Redwood guys! Wanna help me with it"?
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« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2011, 02:07:30 PM »

I don't know, depends. Hadn't Mike and Bruce written a song for another group like a year or two before?
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« Reply #41 on: April 05, 2011, 02:11:44 PM »

Also remember, in his book he also claimed that his manhood split open like a hot dog due to using it so much. Believe what you will.
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« Reply #42 on: April 05, 2011, 02:31:19 PM »

Also remember, in his book he also claimed that his manhood split open like a hot dog due to using it so much. Believe what you will.

It's just possible that he had his manhood figured bass-ackwards
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« Reply #43 on: April 05, 2011, 07:56:57 PM »

Perhaps Brian wrote all the lyrics to "Darlin'" himself and gave Mike credit since they had written "Thinkin' About My Baby" together. Or, Brian came up with the new chorus and Mike wrote the new verses. This could have been just another collaboration between them and Mike was unaware (or didn't initially care) that the track would go to Redwood.

Considering that Brian had just written the stunningly gorgeous lyrics to time to get alone without the help of Mr. Love, I wouldn't put it past him to have written the Darling lyrics by himself. 
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« Reply #44 on: April 05, 2011, 08:02:29 PM »

Sure, but why would he then go and credit the lyrics to Mr. Love? Especially considering he had no problem pulling the opposite on Mike here and there for whatever reasons.
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« Reply #45 on: April 05, 2011, 08:56:37 PM »

Because its based on Thinking About You Baby which was co-written with Mike Love. Perhaps.
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« Reply #46 on: April 05, 2011, 09:45:11 PM »

Because its based on Thinking About You Baby which was co-written with Mike Love. Perhaps.

That's what I was thinking.  Also, just to clarify, I am not trying to denigrate Mike, I think he's a fantastic lyricist and fully deserves probably more credit than he's gotten for his lyrical and musical contributions to the band.  It just seems odd in this particular case that Brian would offer an outside group not just one of his best songs, but a song recently co-written with someone else in the Beach Boys - an idea lent some credence perhaps by the fact that he wrote time to get alone by himself, and apparently called on Van Dyke Parks for another potential Red Wood song.
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« Reply #47 on: April 06, 2011, 02:29:38 AM »

For all we know, Brian rewrote the song with Mike, but the chorus used the word "baby" instead of "darling" (considering that the original title was "Thinkin' 'Bout You Baby") . Then, when Brian was thinking of songs to record with Redwood, he thought of that song, and thinking of Hutton, decided that "darling" was better for the chorus than baby. Either way, it's still a Brian & Mike cowrite.

I mean, if we want to make some meaningless conjectures on events we have no firsthand knowledge of.
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« Reply #48 on: April 06, 2011, 04:55:51 AM »

Perhaps Brian wrote all the lyrics to "Darlin'" himself and gave Mike credit since they had written "Thinkin' About My Baby" together.
Sure, but why would he then go and credit the lyrics to Mr. Love? Especially considering he had no problem pulling the opposite on Mike here and there for whatever reasons.

Maybe for the same reasons that he credited Van Dyke on She's Goin' Bald.  That is, if you believe that Van Dyke wrote the He Gives Speeches lyrics.  Which he says he didn't. 

Just thinkin' 'bout it......baby. 
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« Reply #49 on: April 06, 2011, 05:15:08 AM »

Again I want to point out how well The Beach Boys were working together in the fall of 1967. Brian and Mike co-wrote nearly a whole album worth of songs, surely it's possible that Darlin' was one of them? They sound like Mike lyrics to me, Time To Get Alone being a little more airy.
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