Steve Hoffman to remaster "Pet Sounds" again

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

But, to my ears anyway, much of Pet Sounds suffers by far from the worst recorded sound quality of all The Beach Boys albums, even worse than Wild Honey.  (Please note I'm talking about the sound quality of the much of the recording, not the quality of the recorded material!)  Overall, the album sounds very tinny to me, with way too much emphasis in the 2 to 4 KHz range (upper midrange and lower treble).  The modern day stereo remix has made significant improvements in this regard, but I've always been curious why much of Pet Sounds has what I consider to be a very irritating EQ - one found on no other Beach Boys recording.

Wow...worse than Wild Honey?! That's...wow. To my ears, WH has the worst sound of any of their albums as it just sounds too damn muddy. The tracks that have been remixed in stereo (whether legit release or boot) sound so much better.

[c-man]

But, to my ears anyway, much of Pet Sounds suffers by far from the worst recorded sound quality of all The Beach Boys albums, even worse than Wild Honey.  (Please note I'm talking about the sound quality of the much of the recording, not the quality of the recorded material!)  Overall, the album sounds very tinny to me, with way too much emphasis in the 2 to 4 KHz range (upper midrange and lower treble).  The modern day stereo remix has made significant improvements in this regard, but I've always been curious why much of Pet Sounds has what I consider to be a very irritating EQ - one found on no other Beach Boys recording.

Wow...worse than Wild Honey?! That's...wow. To my ears, WH has the worst sound of any of their albums as it just sounds too damn muddy. The tracks that have been remixed in stereo (whether legit release or boot) sound so much better.

Smiley Smile ain't much better.

[sockittome]

But, to my ears anyway, much of Pet Sounds suffers by far from the worst recorded sound quality of all The Beach Boys albums, even worse than Wild Honey.  (Please note I'm talking about the sound quality of the much of the recording, not the quality of the recorded material!)  Overall, the album sounds very tinny to me, with way too much emphasis in the 2 to 4 KHz range (upper midrange and lower treble).  The modern day stereo remix has made significant improvements in this regard, but I've always been curious why much of Pet Sounds has what I consider to be a very irritating EQ - one found on no other Beach Boys recording.

Wow...worse than Wild Honey?! That's...wow. To my ears, WH has the worst sound of any of their albums as it just sounds too damn muddy. The tracks that have been remixed in stereo (whether legit release or boot) sound so much better.

Smiley Smile ain't much better.

Agreed on everything here except the original quote.  I've never felt that Pet Sounds suffered from poor sound quality.  I've just always felt that with all the layers of instrumentation and vocals, this album was crying out for stereo from the very beginning.  I just have difficulty understanding why so many people disqualify the stereo remix, because it is not historically correct.  If mono is your thing, what's so bad about the original mastering?

[lance]

It sounds great in stereo. What sounds better in mono is the early, pre-today stuff. For some reason I like Surfin USA but the rest of that stuff sounds better in MOno.

[?]

I just have difficulty understanding why so many people disqualify the stereo remix, because it is not historically correct.

You answered your own question.  There's also missing double tracked vocals, either Mike is missing from the WIBN bridge or distractingly flown in from the mono mix depending on which version you're hearing, and too much digital reverb for my taste.

If mono is your thing, what's so bad about the original mastering?

Compression!  Besides, not everyone has access to vinyl and even if they did, why wouldn't they want the best sounding option?

[Shane]

A couple of comments, and a question:

"According to Steve, at Reprise Wouldn't It Be Nice suffers tape damage making it unusable - WIBN on the Reprise albums may be from the LA tape, and the damage occurred subsequent or concurrent with mastering the LP, or it's possible that Reprise damaged it before it could transfer the track and they had to use the NY tape as a source. When rights revert back to Capitol, the tape returns to Capitol, and WIBN is replaced by a copy of the New York tape WIBN (an aside – perhaps this WIBN IS the New York tape version, and a copy was substituted into the NY tape master?)"

I seem to remember Steve Hoffman making some comment to the effect that the version of WIBN he found on the tape in 1991 was a duophonic version that somebody spliced on there.  He went on to say that somebody remembered the  existence of the NY tape, and he ended up using that for the missing parts.

"For the DCC the NY tape was used for WIBN (a new transfer) and the train & dogs bit.  Apparently the train and dogs ending was damaged or in some other way not as suitable as the NY tape version.  No splicing in from the multitracks. At the time a 30 ips flat transfer analogue copy of the reels was made and that was used to cut the DCC LP that came out a few years later. The DCC CD was released in 1993."

Forgive my ignorance, but do these master tapes typically have a "side one" and "side two"?  If that were the case, it would make sense that WIBN (the beginning of side one) and the end of Caroline No (the end of side two) would occupy the same damaged area of tape.

"For the 40th anniversary release, Mark used a 16 bit digital copy of the master tape made in 1987 in preparation for the first Pet Sounds CD.  I think this may be the worst sounding version of the mono Pet Sounds, whether it be the 1987 digital technology, the state of the digital tape, or the mastering of this version.  I much prefer the P S box set NY tape version, and, of course, the DCC."

Interesting... I always thought the 40th anniversary was fairly good sounding, just in the fact that it seems to be almost a flat transfer, with plenty of hiss intact.

[The Heartical Don]

But, to my ears anyway, much of Pet Sounds suffers by far from the worst recorded sound quality of all The Beach Boys albums, even worse than Wild Honey.  (Please note I'm talking about the sound quality of the much of the recording, not the quality of the recorded material!)  Overall, the album sounds very tinny to me, with way too much emphasis in the 2 to 4 KHz range (upper midrange and lower treble).  The modern day stereo remix has made significant improvements in this regard, but I've always been curious why much of Pet Sounds has what I consider to be a very irritating EQ - one found on no other Beach Boys recording.

Wow...worse than Wild Honey?! That's...wow. To my ears, WH has the worst sound of any of their albums as it just sounds too damn muddy. The tracks that have been remixed in stereo (whether legit release or boot) sound so much better.

Smiley Smile ain't much better.

Agreed on everything here except the original quote.  I've never felt that Pet Sounds suffered from poor sound quality.  I've just always felt that with all the layers of instrumentation and vocals, this album was crying out for stereo from the very beginning.  I just have difficulty understanding why so many people disqualify the stereo remix, because it is not historically correct.   If mono is your thing, what's so bad about the original mastering?

I am contemplating punctuating my right eardrum to hear it the way Brian hears it. Makes me the coolest BW nutter in the universe.

[c-man]

The cool thing about the DCC (and this upcoming release) is that it is as close to the master tape prepared by Chuck and Brian as you can get - NO EQ was applied, this is how the Pet Sounds master would sound if you were in the control room listening to the final mix on the master with Brian.  And were using the same studio speakers.  And the master tape is now gone, so there won't be another mastering of the tape.

Mark Linett has vigorously debated the claim that Hoffman's remaster used no EQ. 

[Dr. Tim]

I seem to remember Steve Hoffman making some comment to the effect that the version of WIBN he found on the tape in 1991 was a duophonic version that somebody spliced on there.  He went on to say that somebody remembered the  existence of the NY tape, and he ended up using that for the missing parts.

"For the DCC the NY tape was used for WIBN (a new transfer) and the train & dogs bit.  Apparently the train and dogs ending was damaged or in some other way not as suitable as the NY tape version.  No splicing in from the multitracks. At the time a 30 ips flat transfer analogue copy of the reels was made and that was used to cut the DCC LP that came out a few years later. The DCC CD was released in 1993."

Forgive my ignorance, but do these master tapes typically have a "side one" and "side two"?  If that were the case, it would make sense that WIBN (the beginning of side one) and the end of Caroline No (the end of side two) would occupy the same damaged area of tape.

"For the 40th anniversary release, Mark used a 16 bit digital copy of the master tape made in 1987 in preparation for the first Pet Sounds CD.  I think this may be the worst sounding version of the mono Pet Sounds, whether it be the 1987 digital technology, the state of the digital tape, or the mastering of this version.  I much prefer the P S box set NY tape version, and, of course, the DCC."

Interesting... I always thought the 40th anniversary was fairly good sounding, just in the fact that it seems to be almost a flat transfer, with plenty of hiss intact.

An original or safety LP master tape would be in one direction only, one-track mono or two-track stereo, on one or two reels depending on what speed the master was made at (7.5 ips, 15 ips, etc.).   That would not explain the damage reported in the quote to WIBN or the end of Caroline No.

My questions:  if there was a 30 ips analog tape copy made of the New York safety master for the DCC release, where is that?  Why wasn't it used for the 40th anniversary mono disc?  Is it proprietary to Mr. Hoffman?  Is it going to be used for this new super-duper transfer?

[Bicyclerider]

"My questions:  if there was a 30 ips analog tape copy made of the New York safety master for the DCC release, where is that?  Why wasn't it used for the 40th anniversary mono disc?  Is it proprietary to Mr. Hoffman?  Is it going to be used for this new super-duper transfer?"

Because it would belong to Mr. Hoffman - and either it or the digital copy made at the time would be the source of the new CD.

"I seem to remember Steve Hoffman making some comment to the effect that the version of WIBN he found on the tape in 1991 was a duophonic version that somebody spliced on there.  He went on to say that somebody remembered the  existence of the NY tape, and he ended up using that for the missing parts."

Yes, I do recall something about a duophonic WIBN being substituted on the master, but I don't have any archived quotes on that.

"Mark Linett has vigorously debated the claim that Hoffman's remaster used no EQ."

Yes, Mark has said that all versions of Pet Sounds have EQ'd the master tape, including the DCC - yet Steve has been insistent that his was a flat transfer, and has shared what equipment he used and how he did it.  Don't see the point in Steve lying about that - it's not like all he does is flat transfers - in fact, other than this one I don't know of any of his rock releases being flat transfers.  Fresh Cream, Wheels of Fire, the recent Forever Changes 70's mix, etc. were all EQ'd or tweaked in some way.  Steve has even mentioned that he sometimes wished he shaved off some of the bass (the master is bass heavy) in mastering Pet Sounds.  So I have to believe Steve.  Doesn't mean you have to like the flat transfer though.

"Interesting... I always thought the 40th anniversary was fairly good sounding, just in the fact that it seems to be almost a flat transfer, with plenty of hiss intact."

I found the 40th anniversary mono mix very harsh on my system, and fatiguing to listen to - in a head to head comparison with the PS box set mono (NY tape) and the DCC (LA tape) I found both of them to be far superior.  But that's just my ears, and my system.

[sockittome]

why wouldn't they want the best sounding option?

My point, exactly!  Problem is, we just don't agree on which one sounds best!

[c-man]

Maybe this has already been covered, but is there any way to tell if a 1966 pressing of "Pet Sounds" was made from the L.A. or the N.Y. master?  For instance, by looking at the number stamped in the runout grooves?

[c-man]

Here are reposts of a couple of relevant postings, in case anyone missed or forgot them (interesting that a "bunch of bass" was shaved off, yet to some people's ears...not necessarily mine...the album still sounds "bass heavy"):

Question for AGD or Mark Linett or Brian Wilson RE: Pet Sounds
(posted by Maui_Brian_Fan on January 9, 2006)
Message:
In a recent thread at Steve Hoffmans website, someone asked where Brian Wilson mastered Pet Sounds. Steves reply was as follows: The album was mastered at Capitol, minus Brian Wilson, per the late John Kraus. PET SOUNDS was assembled and the ref cut at the Capitol Tower on 4/4/66 by E.F. (whoever he or she might be). The first set of parts were cut the next day (4/5/66) by E.F. and then another set was cut for the East Coast by W.T. on 4/19/66. On 4/7/66 a protection master was made (marked N.Y. copy). I can't read anything else on my Xerox copy of the original fact sheet, too faint, probably pencil lines, sorry. As for "LPI", EQ and limiter settings, that information is unfortunately lost to time. I can tell you that according to my ears, Mr. or Ms. E.F. added about 3 db at 5K to everything, shaved off a bunch of bass (probably 5 db off at 100 cycles) and filtered the top end at 10k. The limiter was set around "medium" with something like a crunching 2:1 ratio, typical for Capitol of the time. AGD, Mark, Brian, any idea's who E.F. or W.T. were?
WT was probably...
(posted by Andrew G. Doe on January 9, 2006)
Message:
... Wally Tragott (or Traugott), an engineer who, I think, worked on PET SOUNDS (it's late, I'm tired and just in from work, this is top of the head stuff). EF - I have no idea... but I'll do some sleuthing.

[c-man]

Oh...and didn't someone "in the know" post awhile back the assumption (or fact) that WIBN was pulled from one of the master tapes (either L.A. or N.Y.) so as to be used for the single release, and at that point it was replaced by the duophonic version?  Which, if it did indeed happen, would also have happened to GOK...unless it happened in the mid-'70s, when Reprise released a WIBN single (backed with Caroline, No...which could possibly be when THAT song's master was damaged, as well)...??

[Shane]

"Maybe this has already been covered, but is there any way to tell if a 1966 pressing of "Pet Sounds" was made from the L.A. or the N.Y. master?  For instance, by looking at the number stamped in the runout grooves?"

There is a way to tell the difference between an East Coast pressing and a West coast pressing.  HOWEVER, keep in mind, that if you carefully read Steve Hoffman's post you copied, you'll find that BOTH sets of parts were made off of the LA master, and then sent to each pressing plant.  The NY copy was simply used for safety, and put away for posterity.  It is basically what happened at the pressing plants that made the difference in sonic quality between the two pressings.  West Coast pressings have an asterisk etched in the trail-off.  East Coast pressings have the letters "IAM" in a triangle stamped in the trailoff.  West Coast pressings generally sound better than East Coast pressings, but they are made from the same master.


"Oh...and didn't someone "in the know" post awhile back the assumption (or fact) that WIBN was pulled from one of the master tapes (either L.A. or N.Y.) so as to be used for the single release, and at that point it was replaced by the duophonic version?  Which, if it did indeed happen, would also have happened to GOK...unless it happened in the mid-'70s, when Reprise released a WIBN single (backed with Caroline, No...which could possibly be when THAT song's master was damaged, as well)...??"

I know that Capitol used what they call "singles reels", where each single was assigned a number, and then added onto a spool of tape.  Therefore, you might have a Beach Boys single on a spool of tape that would have singles by a variety of other Capitol artists on it.  It's all based on the time the single was released... single number 5000, then 5001, then 5002, etc.  My impression is that these singles are copied off the (mono) LP mastertapes, but I'm not sure. 

As far as the Reprise singles are concerned, I just checked my record price guide.  Reprise released WIBN/Sloop John B........ and God Only Knows/Caroline, No as singles.  WIBN/Caroline No was never released as a pair.

Another point... most of us have heard that "wrong" version of WIBN that was used on the Still Cruisin' album, and others.  I believe this was the result of WIBN missing off the Pet Sounds master tape.

[c-man]

"As far as the Reprise singles are concerned, I just checked my record price guide.  Reprise released WIBN/Sloop John B........ and God Only Knows/Caroline, No as singles.  WIBN/Caroline No was never released as a pair."

So Brad Elliott's book is wrong about RPS 1336 ?

[Custom Machine]

"Maybe this has already been covered, but is there any way to tell if a 1966 pressing of "Pet Sounds" was made from the L.A. or the N.Y. master?  For instance, by looking at the number stamped in the runout grooves?"

There is a way to tell the difference between an East Coast pressing and a West coast pressing.  HOWEVER, keep in mind, that if you carefully read Steve Hoffman's post you copied, you'll find that BOTH sets of parts were made off of the LA master, and then sent to each pressing plant.  The NY copy was simply used for safety, and put away for posterity.  It is basically what happened at the pressing plants that made the difference in sonic quality between the two pressings.  West Coast pressings have an asterisk etched in the trail-off.  East Coast pressings have the letters "IAM" in a triangle stamped in the trailoff.  West Coast pressings generally sound better than East Coast pressings, but they are made from the same master.

Interesting info, Shane.  Do you know if  the vinyl pressing parts for both the LA and Scranton, PA pressing plants were always made in LA?  Were tapes ever shipped to the Scranton, PA plant and then the vinyl pressing parts made there?  If so, did they always use the LA tape, or was the New York safety copy ever used?  Did Capitol ever enlist other (non-EMI owned) pressing plants, if needed, if their own plants were running at capacity?

And, most importantly, can you explain what factors cause west coast pressings to "generally sound better than east coast pressings," especially if they were made from basically similar parts?  Did the west coast plant use cleaner vinyl?  Were the east coast presses older and thus somehow generally made inferior records?

[Chris Moise]

The cool thing about the DCC (and this upcoming release) is that it is as close to the master tape prepared by Chuck and Brian as you can get - NO EQ was applied, this is how the Pet Sounds master would sound if you were in the control room listening to the final mix on the master with Brian.  And were using the same studio speakers.  And the master tape is now gone, so there won't be another mastering of the tape.

Mark Linett has vigorously debated the claim that Hoffman's remaster used no EQ. 

Mark is critical of every Beach Boys CD he wasn't personally involved in. To bolster his opinion more weight he often says "Brian didn't like that version" or "Brian didn't approve it".

[LeeDempsey]

The cool thing about the DCC (and this upcoming release) is that it is as close to the master tape prepared by Chuck and Brian as you can get - NO EQ was applied, this is how the Pet Sounds master would sound if you were in the control room listening to the final mix on the master with Brian.  And were using the same studio speakers.  And the master tape is now gone, so there won't be another mastering of the tape.

Mark Linett has vigorously debated the claim that Hoffman's remaster used no EQ. 

Steve has admitted on his board that you can "shape" the sound of a recording being mastered through tube equipment without using EQ, by swapping out different brands of tubes in the equipment (referred to as "tube rolling").  For instance, Telefunken tubes could introduce a slightly different bass, midrange and treble presence into the mastering than RCA tubes or Sovtek tubes, etc.  That allows you to maintain a direct equipment chain in mastering, but still tweak the sound.

Lee

[Shane]

"As far as the Reprise singles are concerned, I just checked my record price guide.  Reprise released WIBN/Sloop John B........ and God Only Knows/Caroline, No as singles.  WIBN/Caroline No was never released as a pair."

So Brad Elliott's book is wrong about RPS 1336 ?"


I stand corrected... to some extent.  I just checked my guide again.  Evidently Reprise had two different series of 45s.  Originally, God Only Knows was paired with Caroline, No in 1973 on Reprise 0102.  Then in 1975, WIBN/Caroline No was issued on 1336 as a reissue of sorts (with a different pairing than the original Reprise issue).  These dates, however, may not be 100% correct, as I have found errors in this book before (I'm using an older Goldmine guide for 45s).

Frankly, while I'm a record collector, I'm not too up on my Reprise 45rpm reissues of 1960s Beach Boys material because I hardly run across them.  Guess they didn't sell too well.


"Interesting info, Shane.  Do you know if  the vinyl pressing parts for both the LA and Scranton, PA pressing plants were always made in LA?  Were tapes ever shipped to the Scranton, PA plant and then the vinyl pressing parts made there?  If so, did they always use the LA tape, or was the New York safety copy ever used?  Did Capitol ever enlist other (non-EMI owned) pressing plants, if needed, if their own plants were running at capacity?"

Honestly, I'm still trying to figure out how the Scranton PA plant played into the Pet Sounds scenario.  I know other Capitol LPs were pressed there, but I'm not sure about Pet Sounds.  I've never seen a Scranton pressing of the album.  Capitol did contract pressings out to other non-EMI pressing plants, but I believe it was only in cases where they couldn't keep up with demand... for instance, there are Beatles records out there that were pressed by RCA for Capitol.  If I remember correctly, these LPs can be identified by a deep ring-shaped indentation underneath the label, about 3 inches in diameter.  45s will say "RCA" in the trail-off.

"And, most importantly, can you explain what factors cause west coast pressings to "generally sound better than east coast pressings," especially if they were made from basically similar parts?  Did the west coast plant use cleaner vinyl?  Were the east coast presses older and thus somehow generally made inferior records?"

All I can say is that the West Coast Capitol 1966 pressings of Pet Sounds have clearer, less "grainy" sound.  This may be due to a better transfer from making the metal parts, or possibly better stampers.  I know that stampers tend to degrade with use, but every West Coast copy I've ever heard has been consistently better than the East Coast copies.   

[Dr. Tim]

Not quarreling with any of the above, but do keep one additional factor in mind:  the sound of analog tape changes with age, no matter how well it's archived.   I have seen this happen enough (when music folk I know went to re-master their old stuff) to know it is not just an urban legend among engineers, or due to loss of high-frequency hearing in their aging ears.  So whether you apply analog or digital EQ, or do the "tube EQ" Mr. Hoffman uses, some treatment is necessary or the resulting new master will sound unnaturally dull.   This is why the CATP two-fer Pet Sounds is the best vinyl pressing: it was done with more care than the original, using a much younger master tape. *

*younger than now, of course - in 1973 it was only 7 years old

[Shane]

What Dr. Tim has to say is very true.  A teacher in college once told me that after about 80-100 years, the magnetic field on tape will theoretically break down to the point that the tape will begin to become blank.  The invention of magnetic tape isn't 100 years old yet, so we still have some time before that will show to be true in the real world or not.  I also heard of some sort of blank cassettes that were somewhat popular in the 1980s... I seem to remember they were the ones marketed as the "metal" variety of magnetic tape... supposedly those go blank after about 10 years.


While we're discussing Beach Boys master tapes, I wonder what exists or has been lost for some of the other 1960's Beach Boys albums.  I'm particularly curious about the Today album, as that is one of my favorites.  About 5 years ago, I saw the New York copy of the duophonic master for the Today album for sale on ebay... no joke!!  The auction was pulled after about two days, but I was smart enough to keep the seller's ebay ID handy.  Unfortunately, they refused to sell it to me because they were told it was illegal to do so.  Of course, I was trying to buy it with the idea in mind of getting that tape back into the right hands.      

Who knows where that tape is now.

[buddhahat]

So I just ordered this Steve Hoffman Gold CD from Amazon US:

http://www.amazon.com/Pet-Sounds-Beach-Boys/dp/B001KNUQ64/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1239225710&sr=1-2

I have the release of Pet Sounds from a year or so ago, and The PS box. Am I wasting my money?

Is this Gold version worth shelling out for? I heard it's the best way to hear the album, short of seeking out the original vinyl, but if it doesn't sound much different from previous releases then I'd rather cancel my order and not waste the cash.

Anybody have any opinions on this?

[Steve Mayo]

  I also heard of some sort of blank cassettes that were somewhat popular in the 1980s... I seem to remember they were the ones marketed as the "metal" variety of magnetic tape... supposedly those go blank after about 10 years.

odd.....i recorded many a beach boy show i went to on those metal tapes, most 25 years old or so, and they still play just fine.

[petsite]

Reading this old posting, I just had to reply.

When an album had been submitted to Capitol and a single was released from that LP (rather than the 45 being released first, Like Help Me Rhonda before Summer Days), Capitol would pull the LP master out, cut off the track, and return the LP master back either without that track or with a copy. That way, the single (which was way more important to them back then) would come from the master tape. Now, when you wanted to reconstitue the original LP with the original tapes, you pulled the single reels out and use them along with the rest of the LP master. But some one had "lost" WIBN within Cap's library so the East Coast safety copy was called for and delivered to the West Coast for the first CD release.

Now here is what I find interesting. In 1982 (Sunshine Dreams) and 1984 (Pet Sounds tape and LP), WIBN is in mono, and not a fold-over mono. So when exactly was the master reel lost? Also, WIBN released by Warners in the 70's was duophonic. SO who knows what happened there.

Bob