Postcard From California

[SurfRiderHawaii]

A major part of the Beach Boys' legacy is all those beautiful voices singing together.

Let's face it, Brian's voice is pretty much shot!  It pales in comparison to even his early 90's voice.  Imagine 'TLOS' with Brian's 60s/70/s voice, Carl's voice, Al's voice, some Mike leads.  It would be a mind blower! It would even have sounded a lot better as a 2008 Beach Boys album.

I'd like to see a happy ending to the story.  A live DVD, releases from the archives (there is tons of great stuff), and fun collaborations like what Al is doing, what David is doing (it's Beach Boys together without the pressure).  You could compile that together even for a new Beach Boys album.  Worked pretty well for the Beatles on the 'White Album'.

[Howie Edelson]

Worked pretty well for the Beach Boys on 20/20, too.

[the captain]

I believe a lot of Brian's solo work is as good as or better than Dennis's. I must be ill-informed. Wow, the shame I feel.

[Jon Stebbins]

Carl R wrote "I think if we want good new music out of ex-Beach Boys members, solo Brian releases remain the best bet by a long way."
No. There's unreleased Dennis Wilson music left in the can that's better than anything coming out of Brian's camp. And don't say that isn't new...because Brian's "new music" often isn't new either.

Jon - What are the latest sales figures on POB/Bambu?  Is there any movement/talk from BRI/Capitol for a Beach Boys "Dennis" collection yet?  Alan Boyd posted about the 'thought' some months back.

I don't have any updated sales figures for POB/Bambu, I do think its safe to say that it outperformed whatever sales projections were expected. The number 16 placing on the UK chart blew the minds of a few record execs, as well as the number 8 on the Billboard Internet Sales chart in the U.S. It sold well over 20,000 units worldwide in the first week. Everyone thought the LP would do well as a cult classic, but no one thought it would compete with new pop releases, which it did for a couple weeks there. Once that initial rush subsided it has performed pretty much as expected.

[Jon Stebbins]

I believe a lot of Brian's solo work is as good as or better than Dennis's. I must be ill-informed. Wow, the shame I feel.

Admitting it to yourself is half the battle. If you need to, find a meeting in your area. There are plenty of examples of Brian solo fans who have not only survived the shame, but have recovered to live productive lives.

[the captain]

I believe a lot of Brian's solo work is as good as or better than Dennis's. I must be ill-informed. Wow, the shame I feel.

Admitting it to yourself is half the battle. If you need to, find a meeting in your area. There are plenty of examples of Brian solo fans who have not only survived the shame, but have recovered to live productive lives.

I wouldn't call myself such a "Brian solo fan." More a Dennis non-fan. I know I may as well be insulting your mother saying that to you, but it's the truth. Sometimes I like it. A lot of the time I'm ambivalent. Plenty of times I dislike it. Such is life.

[Howie Edelson]

Hey Luther --

You can keep "Market Place" and I'll keep "Cocktails" -- and we'll call it good.

[Jon Stebbins]

I believe a lot of Brian's solo work is as good as or better than Dennis's. I must be ill-informed. Wow, the shame I feel.

Admitting it to yourself is half the battle. If you need to, find a meeting in your area. There are plenty of examples of Brian solo fans who have not only survived the shame, but have recovered to live productive lives.

I wouldn't call myself such a "Brian solo fan." More a Dennis non-fan. I know I may as well be insulting your mother saying that to you, but it's the truth. Sometimes I like it. A lot of the time I'm ambivalent. Plenty of times I dislike it. Such is life.

My mother and Dennis are both dead...but Brian's Back... again. Truthfully i kind of like TLOS. Its nice to hear Brian singing something with an emotional and compositional quality that surpasses most of his post '88 stuff. And yes, Dennis blows my mind with each new revelation, and 25 years after his death there's still stuff in the can that is among his very best. Wish we could say that about Brian because listening to it would be so much fun...but the cupboard is pretty much bare in comparison.

[the captain]

And yes, Dennis blows my mind with each new revelation, and 25 years after his death there's still stuff in the can that is among his very best. Wish we could say that about Brian because listening to it would be so much fun...but the cupboard is pretty much bare in comparison.

Of course, part of the reason for that is that Brian's cupboard has been continuously raided for the past 30+ years. Maybe 40, considering the back-material being used from the non-appearance of Smile onward. Conversely, the exact opposite was going on with Dennis from when he began recording to the end of his life, pretty much.

[Alex]

Carl R wrote "I think if we want good new music out of ex-Beach Boys members, solo Brian releases remain the best bet by a long way."
No. There's unreleased Dennis Wilson music left in the can that's better than anything coming out of Brian's camp. And don't say that isn't new...because Brian's "new music" often isn't new either.

Goin' Home, SMiLE, half of GIOMH, 4 songs from Imagination, for starters.

HCWSBD is an Imagination Outtake.

I thought it was from the Paley era. Dancin' the Night Away aka Baywatch Nights.

[Jon Stebbins]

And yes, Dennis blows my mind with each new revelation, and 25 years after his death there's still stuff in the can that is among his very best. Wish we could say that about Brian because listening to it would be so much fun...but the cupboard is pretty much bare in comparison.

Of course, part of the reason for that is that Brian's cupboard has been continuously raided for the past 30+ years. Maybe 40, considering the back-material being used from the non-appearance of Smile onward. Conversely, the exact opposite was going on with Dennis from when he began recording to the end of his life, pretty much.

I'd say that's pretty much the whole reason, which is very frustrating for people like me...considering the underlying reasons are more political than commercial. I can't believe we're hashing this out on a Postcards from California thread.

[the captain]

I'd say that's pretty much the whole reason, which is very frustrating for people like me...considering the underlying reasons are more political than commercial. I can't believe we're hashing this out on a Postcards from California thread.

I'm not too worried about it; it's far from the first thread to go way off topic for a few pages here or there. I'm sure it all makes sense somehow in the big context. Let's see ... vaults raided a la Brian? "Don't Fight the Sea." Ignored talent a la Dennis? Hmmm ... not so much. Postcards From California pretty much shows me Al got what he deserved in terms of songs per album. Or more than he deserved.

[Alex]

Obviously it's a case of apples and oranges, but in MY OPINION to think that Brian's post 1980s work is on par with the best (or even not-quite best) of Dennis Wilson's is just ill-informed.

It's even unfair to Brian. Just "River Song" destroys any song Brian wrote in the last 30 years.

A better deal could be:

- compare their works from the same year, Brian'77 vs Dennis'77
- compare Brian's first decade as a songwriter ('61-'71) with Dennis' ('68-'78)

Don't you mean '64-'74 as Dennis' first decade? Denny's Drums, anyone?!

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Yeah, but was that really Dennis?

I thought it was from the Paley era. Dancin' the Night Away aka Baywatch Nights.

Just that one part of the song. The rest is from Imagination or the period immediately after.

[MBE]

That was Dennis, he played on most of the 1964 sessions. Hal did a few but it was really on Summer Days that the Wrecking Crew became more dominent.

[Alex]

Yeah, but was that really Dennis?

If anything, it was at least written by Dennis. I consider it to be his first song. I love Denny's Drums, and if someone considers it to be filler, that's their loss.

[shelter]

Obviously it's a case of apples and oranges, but in MY OPINION to think that Brian's post 1980s work is on par with the best (or even not-quite best) of Dennis Wilson's is just ill-informed.

I've heard both TLOS and POB countless times and it's my opinion that TLOS is a better album than POB. If you think that means I have bad taste: no problem. But how exactly does that make me ill-informed?

[Dove Nested Towers]

Everyone is entitled to their own subjective opinion. It's comparing apples and oranges, of course.

I feel compelled to add mine: POB (especially with bonus tracks) is a devastatingly melancholy,
sometimes joyous (Rainbows), above all timeless and richly emotional (and completely idiosyn-
cratic and original) slice of ethereal brilliance. TLOS has strong points and is a very good piece of work overall but I don't think it really stacks up favorably against POB.

It's kind of ridiculous to make an attempt at objective judgement in these matters, but there it
is, that's my opinion. Dennis' solo work is almost uniformly excellent, except for much of "Bambu"
when he was palpably deteriorating, but the pieces that were restored to it in the reissue are,
I think, the best things on it, and very powerful. Brian's solo work is a little more inconsistent.

Dennis' music is very intense, some bordering on maudlin, and can be depressing if you're sensitive or just in the wrong mood, but its intrinsic quality can't be denied.

[Howie Edelson]

I think it's ill-informed because Dennis Wilson is more than just POB, and POB is the work of a man's life and Brian's post '80s work, although a lot of it is amazing, is churning out product. Although I know there were MANY, MANY, inspired musical moments for him, I do not believe that Brian Wilson -- between 1980 and 2008 -- was ever as passionate about any music he made as Dennis Wilson was from 1975 to 1978 while making POB/BAMBU.

TLOS is, well, LITERALLY an LP cobbled together with trace elements of Brian Wilson. Let's call it for what it is. It's like, imagine if GIOMH was a "grand slam" instead of a "bunt." And it sounds great... and it's as nutritious as a marshmallow peep.

BRIAN'S BACK, SHELTER!!!

As far as Dennis' output, there's a multitude of great stuff from his work with the band (literally everything he did with the BB's is major) -- as well as POB/BAMBU -- and another ton of great unreleased stuff as well. It's MY OPINION that if all of that material was considered against TLOS it would be an insanely comical no-brainer. I guess not. But, like George Harrison sang, "It's all up to what you value."

Apples and oranges: You dig Scotty Bennett. I dig him too. I just dig Dennis Wilson a lot more.  There's room for us all.

[MBE]

Dennis' work remained consistently great in my eyes. not counting the last five years where he was too burnt to do much of anything. He coped with the loss of his voice better then Brian, mainly because he was never a pristine singer but a soulful one. Sure I like his vocals before 1974 or 75 better, but the songs didn't decline whatsoever. In fact he continued to grow as a writer and producer.

Brian...well since 1975 the loss of his voice has hurt his records. Even something like Barbie works for me because he sings it so darn good. He's been professional vocally since he resumed touring, but the singing can't be called spectacular too often. Beyond that though if you take 1975-2008 and average it out the consistency just hasn't been there for me. There have been highlights. Adult Child had some very creative moments and some passion in the big band numbers. The 88 LP and the Paley sessions had some very good compositions. Smile was better then I could of hoped. and so was LOS. Heck even the Xmas LP wasn't too shabby. Yet for every LOS there are five Sweet Insanity's or Beach Boys 85's.

I really do like LOS a lot, to hear an artist his age win over a live audience with new material is something rare and special. On most standards I think LOS is in all ways successful, but if you pin me down and ask me if Brian as good as ever I would have to say no. Dennis while he was an active writer still was able to do things as important as when he first started. Again his vocal damage did hold him back a little, but with rare exception (like say his leads on Love You)  he made it work.

[punkinhead]

Speaking of Dennis' output, how did the POB/Bambu set do in sales? Enough to possibly make more of a demand for DW?

[punkinhead]

Speaking of Dennis' vocals in that late 77-78 era, I can think of all his vocals as somewhat of a treasure and how he made them work. Songs like It's trying to Say, My Diane, I wanna pick you Up, Sea Cruise (actually 75-76 era) and Mona

[smile-holland]

Speaking of Dennis' output, how did the POB/Bambu set do in sales? Enough to possibly make more of a demand for DW?

for part of the answer, check page 8 of this thread:
http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,6226.msg103167.html#msg103167

[the captain]

I think it's ill-informed because Dennis Wilson is more than just POB, and POB is the work of a man's life and Brian's post '80s work, although a lot of it is amazing, is churning out product. Although I know there were MANY, MANY, inspired musical moments for him, I do not believe that Brian Wilson -- between 1980 and 2008 -- was ever as passionate about any music he made as Dennis Wilson was from 1975 to 1978 while making POB/BAMBU.

Churning out product is often every bit as important--if not more so--than awaiting that damn inspiration that too many people believe in. I prefer the Bob Dylan / Lou Reed / Andy Warhol / Prince / Frank Zappa approach: go to work. Do your work. People who believe themselves to be inspired tend to create overly dramatic sh*t. (Kind of like Dennis often did, in my opinion, which I realize is in a minority.) Music, like all art, is largely craft. Acquired skill. Not just hanging out till some god breathes into you. Now, I'm not saying it isn't beneficial for someone to throw himself into his craft, and if you call that inspired, well, ok. Terminology. But passion only takes you so far, in my book. And I'd rather have a Brian Wilson putting out "cobbled together" albums than Dennis's inspired one. But I don't see the need to call anyone else ill-informed for disagreeing with me. 

As far as Dennis' output, there's a multitude of great stuff from his work with the band (literally everything he did with the BB's is major) -- as well as POB/BAMBU -- and another ton of great unreleased stuff as well. It's MY OPINION that if all of that material was considered against TLOS it would be an insanely comical no-brainer. I guess not. But, like George Harrison sang, "It's all up to what you value."

Calling all of Dennis's BBs output "major" just means you're the Dennis version of a Brianista, as far as I'm concerned. "It's About Time" is major? It's crap, as far as I'm concerned. And I think similarly of almost all of the Bambu stuff I've heard. Insanely comical no-brainers? I agree. I'd take Brian Wilson's output of the 1970s against Dennis Wilson's, no doubt about it. And I'd say TLOS is right up there near POB in terms of quality: pretty good.

[Howie Edelson]

Y'know Luther, there are Beatles fans out there who actually prefer RINGO RAMA to ALL THINGS MUST PASS. Are you a Beatles fan too?