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Poll
Question: Rate Sunflower
5 - 155 (73.8%)
4 - 45 (21.4%)
3 - 8 (3.8%)
2 - 0 (0%)
1 - 1 (0.5%)
0 - 1 (0.5%)
Total Voters: 193

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Author Topic: Sunflower  (Read 168721 times)
Alex
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« Reply #150 on: December 03, 2007, 08:57:49 AM »

Bruce's songs are kinda "schmaltzy" (for lack of a better term), and it took me many many listens to get used to them. Bruce does have a good voice and is a good musician, I love the harmonies on Dierdre and Tears in the Morning, but his schmaltziness can be too much for some ears. There are still some days when I skip over Bruce's songs. Sunflower would've been even better with Soulful Old Man Sunshine and Loop De Loop in place of BJ's songs (Dierdre and TITM are still better than Disney Girls, IMO). I personally don't care if some of the songs sound dated. I like the sound of stuff from that period of time. It's About Time sounds just like any other hippie rock song from the time, and I love it. Our Sweet Love is a blatant God Only Knows ripoff, but Steve Desper's stereo mix absolutely saves it. If anything, its Desper's work along with all the Beach Boy harmonies that make me like Sunflower so much. The only downfall is that Brian didn't contribute any lead vocals apart from Cool Cool Water and one line and the (faux??) French in At My Window.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 07:05:11 PM by ascrodin » Logged

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carl r
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« Reply #151 on: January 26, 2008, 01:07:38 PM »

Sunflower is a tricky one : some fantastic numbers on here... others which do nothing for me. Like Surf's Up it seems to get better - a lot better -  towards the end. The BB often seemed to have a strangely anti-commercial commercial ethic. The efforts to draw in a proto-Manilow audience resulted in back-loaded albums as the syrupy ballads stack up.  A weird combination of Dennis, then cheese, Dennis, then more cheese.  It's like after "SMiLE" they still imagined they were playing the Pop Band board game but were actually kidding themselves. They Knew Too Much.

I'd say that this was the first album in the late 60s to actually contain weak Brian Wilson songs like "Add Some Music" - showing he was fallible, or simply keeping his best for other projects? Not sure anyone knows...

Anyway, when this album is good, the music is up there with the Beach Boys' best, as good as anything I've ever heard.

Hot - At My Window, Cool, Cool Water, It's About Time, All I Wanna Do, At My Window, Got To Know The Woman, Cool Cool Water, At My Window again.

Not My Tea - The rest.
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« Reply #152 on: January 28, 2008, 01:13:10 AM »

Missin a few good numbers, imo...but to each their own! Smiley
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« Reply #153 on: January 28, 2008, 01:50:24 AM »

This album is weird.....

I dig Slip on Through

I LOVE This Whole World

Add Some Music is too long and repetitive and hollow for me.......

Got To Know the Woman, Deirdre, Tears in the Morning do nothing for me..........

It's About Time is cool, I dig it......

All I Wanna Do is BRILLIANT.........can't get enough listens......my favorite Mike Love performance besides Meant For You

Forever is great

Our Sweet Love......eh, it works because it is Brian but it is so bland compared to their more creative works

At My Window.......a little weird, but they sing about a bird, so I like it

Cool Cool Water......a great feel in the Pet Sounds sense of the word, but the song sounds too dry compared to Da Da and Da Da's ingenious arrangement.........however Cool Cool Water serves it's purpose. Definitely cool. Always impressive, but doesn't sound quite right or fully developed. Beats the crap out of 90% of the rest of the BB catalogue....(Still prefer Da Da and Blue Hawaii though)

I still give it a 3......I think it is really overrated by BB fans, and not on the whole in the league of Pet Sounds and others.......however Despers work is UNREAL.........I'd give it a 10 just for his work...........
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carl r
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« Reply #154 on: January 28, 2008, 02:27:36 AM »

At My Window is very very strange.

I have 2 possible explanations:

a) alien abduction

b) a visitation of the Holy Spirit

or perhaps a combination of the above.

Is the bird there simply to throw us off the scent?  Smiley
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« Reply #155 on: January 28, 2008, 08:57:32 AM »

I can't help but wonder how At My Window would sound if Brian sung lead instead of Bruce. Bruce's voice makes it kind of like a cutesy kid's song, but I think with Brian singing lead it would end up sounding like another Busy Doin' Nothin' or I'd Love Just Once to See You... a man who is not "all there" singing about his life.
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« Reply #156 on: January 28, 2008, 11:01:18 PM »

"At My Window" is such a sublime, beautiful song and underrated by a lot of people who say they love this record when for me it's one of the best on it.  I think I'd probably prefer Brian singing it, just because I find his voice to be more soothing and less irritating than Bruce's.  In a way I like that he only pops up for the backing vocals and the brief little passage in French, which never fails to give me chills.

Like most of the mid to late period stuff, Sunflower's an awesome, if flawed endeavor.  One of my greatest wishes would be to listen to the original masters, track by track, just to hear how some of these beautiful songs were constructed.  I hope someday we get the chance.
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« Reply #157 on: January 29, 2008, 12:18:02 AM »

Actually this is my favorite LP period. It sounds so good, they were at their peaks vocally, as songwriters, and producers. The songs all flow together and I wouldn't change a thing (except maybe the overly long fade of Tears).
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« Reply #158 on: January 29, 2008, 02:29:50 AM »

The songs all flow together and I wouldn't change a thing (except maybe the overly long fade of Tears).

Yeah plus it is too quiet. But yeah I really have to disagree with some people. This album for me is the groups peak as a creative force. As MBE suggests, they were all at their peaks vocally, as songwriters and producers. Well maby not all at their peaks but as an overall entity the group was at it's peak. Basically every song on this album has something good to offer and I really can't pick out a bad track.

And for those who say "Bruce doesn't have a rock and roll bone in his body" etc.. well I agree. But then, not all of Brian's or Denny's or Carl's stuff is what I would call straight out rock and roll, but I still like it. I actually like some of Bruce's songs like "Tears...", "Deirdre", "Disney Girls", "The Nearest Faraway Place" etc.. And don't think that I'm saying that I love his songs and listen to them all the time, I just don't sit there screaming "STOP!!" when his songs are playing. They aren't THAT bad. As I say I like them at times and they certainly aren't as bad as some people suggest. His songs aren't mind-blowing in the way that some of Brian's and Denny's finest work can be but they are still pleasant enough. I'd sure rather listen to some of Bruce's songs than a lot of other garbage out there. I'm sure there are people who will strongly disagree with me and that's fine as everyone's entitled to their opinion of course.
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carl r
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« Reply #159 on: January 29, 2008, 04:56:16 AM »

We can agree to differ, I reckon... as has been pointed out, the Beach Boys had different peaks, and they sounded differently each time.  George W Bush is a fan - who knows, maybe he even reads this forum - something tells me he's not a fan of "Cabin Essence" or "Brian Fell Into The Trombone" or rants about smog ... but who knows? People can pick and choose between their different phases and albums, and there's no right or wrong, even if I don't like "Barbara Ann," it is still the Beach Boys. So, I don't see Sunflower as the highest point, but it is a very good album by any measure other than that applied to "Today" or "Pet Sounds" - or even "20/20".

And we will never know if Bruce would have been successful as a solo artist or not. Maybe he could have joined the Bee Gees ?  Smiley
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« Reply #160 on: January 29, 2008, 05:32:56 AM »

Sunflower is probably my favourite album (not just among Beach Boys albums), although sometimes I like Wild Honey about as much. Actually I love every album and track they released from "Today" to "Holland" except "Bull Session with the Big Daddy" so it's hard to decide best albums.

But every track on Sunflower is amazing. I always liked Bruce's songs too: the different styles are a good thing on Sunflower. The production is great: 1970 was in a great period anyway I think and I don't know why they had to make such inferior productions later on. Deirdre is beautiful, and the drums are amusing and I like the flutes. I don't care for the lyrics but then I rarely bother with them anyway. "At My Window" is a highlight, especially Brian's Spanish bit-he was writing amusing songs at this time. I like Mike's singing on this album: he only started to go wrong from "15 Big Ones" onwards I thought. And Cool, Cool Water is sublime-I'm very glad they dug that out. Personally I like the ending of "Tears In The Morning" but I do notice how it seems to end the same way as "The Nearest Faraway Place" or "Bluebirds": they all seem to have some musical effect in common. Plus if you examine it there is very little of "Tears In The Morning" really: it just repeats the same few notes of tune in different keys. It is still a good piece of music though.
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« Reply #161 on: January 29, 2008, 05:58:06 AM »

"At My Window" is a highlight, especially Brian's Spanish bit-he was writing amusing songs at this time.

tiny detail, I know.... but it's French, not Spanish....
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« Reply #162 on: January 29, 2008, 06:07:49 AM »

"At My Window" is a highlight, especially Brian's Spanish bit-he was writing amusing songs at this time.

tiny detail, I know.... but it's French, not Spanish....

I think people get confused because from memory it says that its Spanish in the twofer liner notes. Well it says it somewhere anyway.
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« Reply #163 on: January 29, 2008, 07:20:31 AM »

in the 2-fer? Have to check that out...

Le moineau est venu
se poser a ma fenêtre

The sparrow has come
(and set down) at my window

....is that the correct translation?
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Rule of thumb, think BEFORE you post. And THINK how it may affect someone else's feelings.

Check out the Beach Boys Starline website, the place for pictures of many countries Beach Boys releases on 45.

Listening to you I get the music; Gazing at you I get the heat; Following you I climb the mountain; I get excitement at your feet
Right behind you I see the millions; On you I see the glory; From you I get opinions; From you I get the story
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« Reply #164 on: January 29, 2008, 11:17:02 AM »

Thanks very much. So it's French then. I read somewhere that it was Spanish, even before I heard the song. I know no Spanish, but a bit of French and for some reason I thought that Brian wasn't saying the French word "fenetre" (I don't know how to type the accent) because it sounded something like "foonetre" to me and so I thought "there's your Spanish" and left it at that!
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« Reply #165 on: January 29, 2008, 12:35:47 PM »

in the 2-fer? Have to check that out...

Le moineau est venu
se poser a ma fenêtre

The sparrow has come
(and set down) at my window

....is that the correct translation?

Your translation is correct, and the correct sentence with all the accents at the right places is:

 "Le moineau est venu se poser à ma fenêtre".

...And even though I'm French, I had to listen to this part quite a few times before understanding what Brian was saying!  Grin
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« Reply #166 on: January 29, 2008, 01:52:05 PM »

This album for me is the groups peak as a creative force. As MBE suggests, they were all at their peaks vocally, as songwriters and producers. Well maby not all at their peaks but as an overall entity the group was at it's peak.

I agree that at this time they were as a group somewhat peaking in terms of involvement, ideas, teamwork, and vocal prowess......however there are lots of other tunes from this era that could have and should have IMO replaced the weaker tunes on this record....it would have made Sunflower better, more popular, and more meaningful. Why is it that this band kept so much of their best material off the record store shelves???


And we will never know if Bruce would have been successful as a solo artist or not. Maybe he could have joined the Bee Gees ?  Smiley

...or the Starland Vocal Band....



Got To Know the Woman, Deirdre, Tears in the Morning do nothing for me..........


........Agreed.
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« Reply #167 on: January 29, 2008, 03:14:55 PM »

Frankly I still think nothing should have been taken off. Really they could have made it a 2 LP set if they included, I'm Going Your Way, Back Home, Good Time, Loop De Loop, I Just Got My Pay, Games Two Can Play, Susie Cincinnati, Walkin, San Miguel, Lady, and Carnival. I think Break Away, Celebrate, and Cottonfields would have worked too but I doubt Capitol would have leased the cuts in the US at least. The only song I left out is When Girls Get Together, which I consider the only miss from this era.
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« Reply #168 on: January 29, 2008, 04:41:57 PM »

....however there are lots of other tunes from this era that could have and should have IMO replaced the weaker tunes on this record....it would have made Sunflower better, more popular, and more meaningful. Why is it that this band kept so much of their best material off the record store shelves???

You know, Sunflower (I think it was first called Add Some Music) was originally REJECTED, and, supposedly, the weaker songs WERE TAKEN OFF.

When I first became a BB fan (1976), you couldn't find Sunflower in the record stores. I had to order it as an import and paid big bucks for it.
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« Reply #169 on: January 29, 2008, 04:56:21 PM »

....however there are lots of other tunes from this era that could have and should have IMO replaced the weaker tunes on this record....it would have made Sunflower better, more popular, and more meaningful. Why is it that this band kept so much of their best material off the record store shelves???

You know, Sunflower (I think it was first called Add Some Music) was originally REJECTED, and, supposedly, the weaker songs WERE TAKEN OFF.


Yeah, thats what they say....but they could've done a better job...imo
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« Reply #170 on: March 23, 2008, 10:17:42 PM »

I recently ripped this album from my original vinyl pressing and it re-affirmed my love for Sunflower. I love it all, even Bruce's numbers. Love the production, such crisp, powerful sound! Faves: Our Sweet Love, At My Window, Add Some Music, Cool Water.

But, I think Holland holds up a little better than this as a cohesive album, IMO.

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« Reply #171 on: March 30, 2008, 08:20:03 AM »

Frankly I still think nothing should have been taken off. Really they could have made it a 2 LP set if they included, I'm Going Your Way, Back Home, Good Time, Loop De Loop, I Just Got My Pay, Games Two Can Play, Susie Cincinnati, Walkin, San Miguel, Lady, and Carnival. I think Break Away, Celebrate, and Cottonfields would have worked too but I doubt Capitol would have leased the cuts in the US at least. The only song I left out is When Girls Get Together, which I consider the only miss from this era.
Can't forget Soulful Old Man Sunshine, quite possibly the greatest non-SMiLE related unreleased (until Endless Harmony) song in their catalog.
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« Reply #172 on: April 01, 2008, 08:24:53 AM »

I'd say there are 5 or 6 good tunes, the rest filler, some really unlistenable.  Still, the photo of Mike Love in the toga is compensation.
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« Reply #173 on: April 02, 2008, 02:00:05 AM »

I'd say there are 5 or 6 good tunes, the rest filler, some really unlistenable.  Still, the photo of Mike Love in the toga is compensation.


Just out of interest, which songs are "good tunes" and which ones are "filler"... sorry to me I can't hear any filler (that is reserved for such titles as Denny's Drums, Boogie Woodie, Bull Session..., Our Favorite Recording Sessions, Cassius Love vs. Sonny Wilson etc..) so I'd be interested to hear what you deem "filler"?
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« Reply #174 on: April 02, 2008, 07:01:58 AM »

I was using the term "filler" in a more global sense rather than in a Beach Boys-centric way, i.e. to describe content that is half-baked, unfinished sounding, or just plain bad - or any combination thereof.  And, you're right, LP/CD filler in most genres of music doesn't sink to the depths of "Denny's Drums" or "Bull Session with the Big Daddy."  So we don't get hung up on the term, I'll revise my statement to say that about half of Sunflower is really great, and the rest half-baked or just plain bad (or a combination thereof).

I always thought you could get a single killer LP by combining the best of Sunflower and Surf's Up.
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