Brian comments on possibilities of a BB reunion

[Jonathan Blum]

I try my best to respect opinions, all opinions, even when I don't agree with them. But I don't think my statement about Brian's reputation is an opinon. I believe it is a fact.

Now Brian is a solo artist, it's 1986. The word is out that he's working on his first solo album. There's a lot of buzz. Despite the failings of the last couple of Beach Boys' albums (that wasn't Brian's fault, right?), the optimism is almost unanimous. Brian Wilson - the genius songwriter, arranger, and producer of The Beach Boys, is finally going to "stretch out" and make the music he wasn't allowed to make in the Beach Boys. Except he didn't. However, it took a couple of more albums before people stopped saying those things about Brian. Oh, yes, the obligatory interviews conducted to promote the release of Brian's solo albums included the standard praise. But many more fans of music (what term do I use?) started to and continue to have their doubts.

Now it's 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and it is a fact that Brian Wilson is not viewed in the same idolitary, mind-blowing, guaranteed to produce something great tones. Not like 1966, 1976, 0r even 1986. That's all I was saying.

Can I just reach back to say that I think that this starts from a false premise?

Back in 1986-88, to me, Brian Wilson was irrelevant.  He wasn't a lost genius who'd done the greatest albums in history, he was a rock star who had gone nuts.  I knew who he was, but I didn't really care.  He wasn't even the most noticeable Beach Boy to me -- I liked "Getcha Back", I liked "Kokomo", I liked the old stuff, but when it came to the band the things us 14-16-year-olds were most likely to talk about was their drummer drowning.

There wasn't unanimous optimism about him doing a solo album.  Among the elite rock cognoscenti at the time, maybe.  But to the rest of the world, the people who thought that were the fringe dwellers.  It was only big news within a cult.

And I'd say that in the days since then, since the stereo Pet Sounds reissue and the box set, since Brian's two high-charting albums and the Smile story, that cult has grown exponentially.

Sure, to a lot of kids today Brian Wilson is still irrelevant.  But among the people who know his name, both true fans and casual people-who-know-his-name, the general perception is closer to "damaged artist, still out there" than "flakey has-been", which is what it was 20 years ago.

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[Jonathan Blum]

Just try going to a Doctor Who board..."Oh I wish every episode was like 'Love & Monsters' "........"Noooo that was crap, I think every one should be like 'The Empty Child' "......truth is you need a mixture of story styles in such a TV show and that musical artists have often come up with different styles of song throughout long careers.....and get this.....it is possible to love a music artist without liking 100% of everything they ever put out.

Ohh yes.  I would never have dared make that reference here.  :-)

ObBeachBoys:  "Love & Monsters" -- the "Beach Boys Love You" of Doctor Who...

Cheers,
Jon Blum
(Love & Monsters is what we need toniiiight...)

[Pretty Funky]

Speaking of Dr Who... Is this you Jonathan?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Blum

(insert Dalek smiley here)

[Sheriff John Stone]

And I'd say that in the days since then, since the stereo Pet Sounds reissue and the box set, since Brian's two high-charting albums and the Smile story, that cult has grown exponentially.

No, it hasn't.

[Wilsonista]

And I'd say that in the days since then, since the stereo Pet Sounds reissue and the box set, since Brian's two high-charting albums and the Smile story, that cult has grown exponentially.

No, it hasn't.

Yes, it has.

[the captain]

Oh yeah? Yeah. Oh yeah? Yeah! Nuh-uh. Uh-huh! Nu-uh. Uh-huh! Oh yeah? Yeah. Well my dad can beat up your dad. Guess I settled this one.

[Wilsonista]

Stone's response to Jonathan's post was sad and pathetic. I was just throwing my support to Jonathan.

[Jonathan Blum]

Speaking of Dr Who... Is this you Jonathan?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Blum

(insert Dalek smiley here)

Yup.  Speaking of flakey has-beens.  :-)

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[Pretty Funky]

You just knew if you waited long enough, one day there would be a BB/ Dr Who tie-in didn't you? 

[Dancing Bear]

And I'd say that in the days since then, since the stereo Pet Sounds reissue and the box set, since Brian's two high-charting albums and the Smile story, that cult has grown exponentially.

No, it hasn't.

I don't know. Between 1993 and 1997 people had access to the whole Beach Boys catalogue and then some (Smile and rarities in the box set). Brian Wilson had a real mystique between the hipsters. It was the peak of 'Pet Sounds is the best album ever', and he still had the Smile ace up his sleeve! The fans expected that, when free of the Beach Boys and Dr. Landy, Brian would show everyone what he was keeping to himself since he 'went to bed'.

Then.... 1998. Imagination. GIOMH. BWPS. WDIRWFC. TLOS.

Gone is the mystique around Brian AND Smile. No one's expecting a comeback anymore. That was vital to his image since the seventies. The live tours are well attended but they are more a opportunity to pay tribute to one of the greats than to apreciate Brian's performing skills.

But I wouldn't say his cult has dwindled either.

[carl r]

Hey Jonathan, sure it's occurred to you before. But a Doctor Who story - combining sea monsters, surfing, sewerage, sibling rivalry, female hair loss, shock therapy, the ghost of Amadeus, droll men dancing the chicken, cults of beautiful women... surely it's just waiting to be written?

[absinthe_boy]

Speaking of Dr Who... Is this you Jonathan?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Blum

(insert Dalek smiley here)

Yup. 

Then you and I have conversed via the net before....back in the 90's....when I used a different name!

And back then I *never* thought I'd witness Brian Wilson performing a completed SMiLE live. But it's happened...and that has incrased his profile. Heck, even the CNN ticker had "Former Beach Boy Brian Wilson performs lost SMiLE album for the first time in 37 years at London's Royal Festival Hall" the whole day of the premiere.

[The Heartical Don]

Speaking of Dr Who... Is this you Jonathan?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Blum

(insert Dalek smiley here)

Yup. 

Then you and I have conversed via the net before....back in the 90's....when I used a different name!

And back then I *never* thought I'd witness Brian Wilson performing a completed SMiLE live. But it's happened...and that has incrased his profile. Heck, even the CNN ticker had "Former Beach Boy Brian Wilson performs lost SMiLE album for the first time in 37 years at London's Royal Festival Hall" the whole day of the premiere.

...but didn't Fox News run: "Former Commie Pothead Brian Wilson Disappoints Dwarfed But Well-paying Conservative Fanbase In Labour-led London"?

[absinthe_boy]

...but didn't Fox News run: "Former Commie Pothead Brian Wilson Disappoints Dwarfed But Well-paying Conservative Fanbase In Labour-led London"?

Probably. Nothing like that would surprise me from Fox "News".

[Shady]

Incredible how cynical people like Sheriff John Stone are about Brian.

Don't mind him, it's all just opinions, no love lost

[The Heartical Don]

Incredible how cynical people like Sheriff John Stone are about Brian.

Don't mind him, it's all just opinions, no love lost

With all due respect, but I doubt whether 'cynical' is the operative word here (well, for me it isn't, for you it may well be). Let me try to clarify my views a bit: I recall 1988 extremely well. The 'revitalisation' of Brian Wilson, or 'revivification', or 'comeback', or 'back from the brink event', or whatever... the press had a field day. Everyone, but everyone was highly sympathetic towards Brian, with good reasons, and Landy smoothly blended in with all the good cheer. There was that fine article in Rolling Stone (by Michael Goldberg) with a beautiful photo of Bri, clad in bluejeans and a yellow shirt (see, that's how well I recall those days). The UK press went into overdrive and produced one hagiographic article after another. I bought it all (literally, at the newsstands, and figuratively, I believed every letter). Then the LP was released. I saw it for the first time in the store, and thought: 'my, what a beautiful sleeve...' (and it was; much better than was the case with later efforts).
I played the album endlessly and was utterly overwhelmed. I thought that 'Rio Grande' was a masterwork. I tired many others with my eulogies. Like, oh. perhaps thousands of other BW fanatics did. He could do no wrong at age 46 with me.

Now, 20 years later, I think that my power of judgment and sensibilities were quite out of normal working order then. I don't mind that. It happens. In recent years, I chatted with many others who went through exactly the same feelings. We tend to agree about the following:
- yes, the comeback of BW was something special, even given the involvement of Landy, his awful pretense and out-of-line control madness, and the doings of the Love Brotherhood;
- no, the LP was not quite what others, and we ourselves, cracked it up to be at the time;
- it had about three or four really good songs on it;
- the thousands of collaborators and guests on it did it no good at all;
- now, the sound is very dated and tinny, and compressed (no thanks to über-king of schmaltz synth pop with a highly limited sell-by date, Jeff Lynne;
- what exactly did Terence Trent D'Arby do on it?
- finally: our judgment (and I don't mean 'objective' judgment, that does not exist in art) had failed us because we so much wanted the whole enterprise to succeed - the world at large now did have to understand how great Brian Wilson was, and still could be.

Why did I write all this? Because I tried to empathize with the Sheriff, although I don't share his point of view. What one wants, desires an event to be can seriously color one's judgment of that very same event.

Does this help?

[absinthe_boy]

Perhaps the Sheriff is not from the UK? It is my observation that Brian is often held in different regard in other territories. Its worth noting that Pet Sounds Live charted here....and Brian has had a handful of hit singles as a solo artist here...whereas only "Caroline, No" charted in the USA. Indeed every one of Brian's solo albums has charted in the UK...including "Live @ The Roxy".

My POV.

As a 15 year old in 1988's UK I can confirm what the Don says. There was a LOT of coverage. Brian was already known over here not merely as a Beach Boy but as the man largely responsible for Pet Sounds - which was already recognised as a truly great milestone in popular music. Indeed from what I have been able to discover, Pet Sounds was always seen that way this side of the pond.

But, things went into overdrive with the release of BW88. There was a lot of media interest, Brian was in the mainstream newspapers (ie not the music press), on TV and so on. A good looking, fit looking Brian. OK so Landy was in the shadows and saying "I did this! I brought Brian back!" but we wanted to believe it...as the Don said.

So the LP came out. I didn't actually buy it at the time, I was at school and sharing tapes with friends. We couldn't all afford to buy everything. So we shared...much the same way kids bluetooth MP3s to each other today. OK so I went to an unusual school (private "progressive" establishment where Sgt. Pepper and Never Mind The Bollocks were on the syllabus) but for sure...BW88 was one of the tapes swapped around the playground. And as the Don says...I recall people initially thinking it was great...and later tempering their enthusiasm, realising it was merely good with a few outstanding moments (Rio Grande among them). As an aside, being given tapes in the playground is how I first heard Pet Sounds and the 1966 SMiLE recordings...

The press probably wanted BW88 to succeed just as much as we did. And quietened down when it was a comparative failure articstically and commercially.

Forward a few years to 1995 and Brian is again in the headlines and on TV thanks to Don Was. I remember seeing a documentary on the Theramin where Brian talked about its use in Good Vibrations, then a few weeks later I think Channel 4 actually showed the whole "I Wasn't Made For These Times". It was suggested by one continuity announcer after that Brian might be working on a second solo album...his colleage replied something like 'I hope so, but I have doubts about a man who's taken so many drugs he hardly knows his own name'.

Clearly they knew about Brian, and expectations were low.

I was living in the USA when Imagnination came out...there was quite a lot of media interest. I asked friends back in the UK, and the story was the same. But after the album came out, all the media interest kind of melted away in teh USA...because the album was not a great success. The story would have been "Brian back at the top of the charts" but it merely sold OK.

But....the prospect of touring...I remember (back in the UK by mid 1999) an article in the Guardian (mainstream non music newspaper, left of centre)...a long interview with Brian saying he wanted to tour and the interviewer clearly familiar with Brian saying that although Brian was better mentally and physically than he'd ever seen him...that touring seemed a pipe dream.

But Brian did tour. And we in the UK got wind that his shows were pretty good. We didn't get to see Brian ourselves until the royal party thing in 2000...where he performed in front of the Queen and a gazillion people and live TV. He looked uncomfortable but the voice was OK.

THen came the Pet Sounds tour. I cannot exaggerate how much media interest that generated. Brian was on the TV, in the mainstream news media...everyone without exception saying this was the real deal...a true pop legend at his best, a show that exceeded expectations.

Of course SMiLE took things up several gears into overdrive.

So...that was a long post...but I'd say that Brian's career certainly from IJWMFTT onwards *has* cemented his legacy and boosted his visibility to the public. It can't have gone un-noticed amongst music enthusiasts that Mojo Magazine gave him gig of the year award in 2002 and 2004, and listed a SMiLE show as among the top 10 gigs of ALL TIME....up there with seeing the Beatles or the Stones (in their prime) or Hendrix.

Sure, had Brian put on his slippers and given up after the comparative failure of BW88 he'd still be talked about....but I genuinely believe not as much as he is now.

[Amy B.]

HD, I think a lot of us know that views of Brian can be extremely colored by sympathy/empathy for him and by the hope that he's still that great genius from the 60s. But I take issue with a couple of your points:

--I think BW 88 is a fantastic album, even 20 years after its release. Is it perfect? No. But that it is as good as it is, under the circumstances, is what deserves the praise.
-- I don't think your viewpoint is as extreme as SJS's viewpoint. I think a refusal to see anything positive in BW's current state is as bad as, if not worse than, a refusal to see anything negative.

Most of the apologists tend to be newer fans. Among people who have been at this for at least a couple of years, most are in the middle and are able to see that the situation is a lot more nuanced than some of the press would have us believe. (Good and evil sells magazines.) I suppose if your expectations or beliefs have been let down one too many times, you develop a very jaundiced view of the whole thing, but I think there are positive aspects to Brian's current output and state of mind that need to be acknowledged. I think some insiders end up overstating the negative in an attempt to cloud the rose-colored glasses of newer fans. I'm not going to apologize for loving TLOS (or even the X-Mas album) or thinking Brian was having a good time in the Black Cab or even thinking at Melinda basically has Brian's best interests at heart. Or for thinking that Mike is a bastard with some good qualities but limited talents rather than a misunderstood and neglected lyrical genius. The arguments in support of my opinions are legitimate. The truth is that no one will ever know what the truth is. It's too complicated for there to be one truth.
 

[Bicyclerider]

I liked BW 88, about half of it was great, but my expectations weren't high because of my knowledge of Brian's history and his recent work with the Beach Boys (BB 85 was dreadful).  The fact it was as good as it was gave me hope that Brian's next work would be even better.  But it wasn't - Sweet Insanity, IJWMFTT, Imagination, GIOMH were all disappointments.  If he had followed up the 88 album with TLOS, I think people would have seen that Brian had REALLY "come back."  That it's taken this long to get an album that is even a worthy successor to 88 is sad, and a testament to the poor care that was given to Brian in the 90's.  (I'm excluding Smile of course, as it is not a "new work')

[Andrew G. Doe]

Indeed every one of Brian's solo albums has charted in the UK...including "Live @ The Roxy".

Care to share those figures - i can't find any chart positions for the following UK BW releases:

Orange Crate Art
Live at the Roxy
Pet Sounds Live
What I Really Want For Christmas

[lance]

I sort of agree with Amy. I like the 88 album quite a lot and Ive only just heard it about six months ago. At first the eighties thing put me off a bit, but I like it quite a bit, but I got over it and even kind of enjoy it now.

I do agree with the Sherriff that if it had been a Beach Boys album==one with the same arrangements and production but different lead vocals--it would have been even better; but I still think it was very good. NOt the best album of 1988, but, really one of the best IMO. There is more creativity in the arrangements of nearly any of those songs than some artists put on whole albums.

Also, the new album is very, very good. Perhaps better than 88, perhaps not. The sound is less dated. What's the deal? One thing, though: I do not think TLOS would have been better as a BB album. In fact, I don't think it would work at all. If anything, I would say Brian's voice is more pleasing to me now than it was 20 years ago.

[absinthe_boy]

Indeed every one of Brian's solo albums has charted in the UK...including "Live @ The Roxy".

Care to share those figures - i can't find any chart positions for the following UK BW releases:

Orange Crate Art
Live at the Roxy
Pet Sounds Live
What I Really Want For Christmas

Orange Crate Art is not a Brian Wilson solo album....it's a Van Dyke Parks album on which Brian sings...you know that!

Live @ The Roxy UK chart position 199

Pet Sounds Live UK chart position 107

I made a boo-boo with Christmas, it didn't chart in the UK.

I didn't say top 40, I said they charted.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Indeed every one of Brian's solo albums has charted in the UK...including "Live @ The Roxy".

Care to share those figures - i can't find any chart positions for the following UK BW releases:

Orange Crate Art
Live at the Roxy
Pet Sounds Live
What I Really Want For Christmas

Orange Crate Art is not a Brian Wilson solo album....it's a Van Dyke Parks album on which Brian sings...you know that!

Live @ The Roxy UK chart position 199

Pet Sounds Live UK chart position 107

I made a boo-boo with Christmas, it didn't chart in the UK.

I didn't say top 40, I said they charted.

Nor did I... and they didn't chart - the official UK album chart only recognises the top 100. Check out the UK LP chart book - they're not in it.

[endofposts]

This might be only semi-related to the thread, but does anyone know how much Brian's '88 solo album cost  to produce and why?  I recall once reading it cost $1 million dollars.  Considering it was nearly all done with synthesizers, how can that be?  Maybe the $1 million included marketing costs, but even if it cost one-quarter of that for production, I'm not sure how.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Wasn't it recorded in like 11 studios? Also, a lot of the time was wasted.

You know what is sad,though? All that money was spent...and Gary Usher saw barely any of it.