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Author Topic: Brian comments on possibilities of a BB reunion  (Read 40334 times)
Dancing Bear
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« Reply #150 on: October 04, 2008, 12:06:33 PM »

Where exactly is Brian's solo career being commented or talked about? Nowhere but here and the other Beach Boys message boards. It's healthy, then, to accept all the range of opinions and views, cause they're what gives Brian's solo career a modest but respectable afterlife. I guess some opinions posted here may turn some stomachs, including mine, but hey, it could be worse. At least we don't have a huge meltdown every week like in the Record Room.  Grin

Everyone knows how things work here. Person A says Mike dumped on Pet Sounds while he had nothing to offer, Person B will reply that Carl did the same with 15 Big Ones and he's even praised for that etc. The blame threads are tipically Beach Boys. But when someone says that TLOS is Brian's best work since 1967, even though it's a minority opinion, it IS respected here. At least as far as I can see. On the other hand, whoever thinks that TLOS just plain sucks - I don't - should be free to do so as well.
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« Reply #151 on: October 04, 2008, 12:57:20 PM »

It's just bitching when you start going on about how he doesn't fake play his muted piano
Wrong. There's a difference between saying "Brian sits in front of a keyboard and doesn't play it" and "Damn, Brian Wilson sucks because he doesn't play his keyboard! I don't know why it's even there! He doesn't deserve to be on stage if he's not playing an instrument. He'd be better off playing the piano than singing, anyway. His voice sucks!" Mentioning something is not "going on about" it and "bitching".
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The Heartical Don
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« Reply #152 on: October 05, 2008, 01:17:05 AM »

I am all with Amy B. here. I had the fortune to shake Brian's hand in 2004, get an autograph, and say 'hello' and thank him. He was a bit awkward after the show, made the exchange very brief, and kept it to one autograph. 'Just the one', he said. Now, the crux of the matter for me is: with Brian, I can see totally how and why this is. On other days (I know that from people in person) he talks about the weather, music, takes his time for a few photos. Nothing wrong.
I would interpret the same behavior by Mike towards me in a different light. I'd think: he isn't really that interested. He's thinking of other things.
 
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #153 on: October 05, 2008, 06:40:36 AM »

I am all with Amy B. here. I had the fortune to shake Brian's hand in 2004, get an autograph, and say 'hello' and thank him. He was a bit awkward after the show, made the exchange very brief, and kept it to one autograph. 'Just the one', he said. Now, the crux of the matter for me is: with Brian, I can see totally how and why this is. On other days (I know that from people in person) he talks about the weather, music, takes his time for a few photos. Nothing wrong.
I would interpret the same behavior by Mike towards me in a different light. I'd think: he isn't really that interested. He's thinking of other things.

All of which has nothing to do with how their music/art/singing/piano playing/non-piano playing should be judged or criticized. But it is. Unfortunately...
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The Heartical Don
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« Reply #154 on: October 05, 2008, 06:50:05 AM »

I am all with Amy B. here. I had the fortune to shake Brian's hand in 2004, get an autograph, and say 'hello' and thank him. He was a bit awkward after the show, made the exchange very brief, and kept it to one autograph. 'Just the one', he said. Now, the crux of the matter for me is: with Brian, I can see totally how and why this is. On other days (I know that from people in person) he talks about the weather, music, takes his time for a few photos. Nothing wrong.
I would interpret the same behavior by Mike towards me in a different light. I'd think: he isn't really that interested. He's thinking of other things.

All of which has nothing to do with how their music/art/singing/piano playing/non-piano playing should be judged or criticized. But it is. Unfortunately...

I think Mike's persona really interferes with the way he comes across as a musician to me. That's precise the problem. I quite like the 'Knebworth 1980' live CD, although (or perhaps: even more because) the health of various group members was not good.
There's a nice rendition of 'Lady Lynda'. Sort of a highlight for Al. And then, during the nice (adopted from Bach) outro, Mike suddenly rips apart all the charm and shouts: 'A-A-A-A-L J-A-A-A-R-D-I-I-N-E'. That is evil. It is pure narcissism: to kill off the nice moment, and wanting to be the center of attention. And he adds insult to injury by calling the group after that to repeat the outro, this time sans interruption by the all-mighty, wonderful, charming, internet-inventing and legal-wunderkind Michael Love. Meh. And another big Meh. Mike Love is anti-art. Perhaps he is made of anti-matter that physicists sought for so long.
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #155 on: October 05, 2008, 07:03:54 AM »

I think Mike's persona really interferes with the way he comes across as a musician to me. That's precise the problem.

And I understand that. I'm the same way with some artists. I really believe that many times, it's not so much the artist's music that turns us off or doesn't "grab us", but the persona of the artist. My point is, and obviously I haven't been articulating it effectively, is that, on this board and other BB/BW-related boards, it goes TOO MUCH both ways. God forbid there is any criticism, even honest, fair criticism, of Brian. But others aren't given the same prejudice. And I'm not talking about only Mike Love. And, as I stated somewhere above, I used to have a sympathetic shoulder myself. There's just something about THIS Brian from THAT Brian (if that makes sense) that doesn't want me to make excuses anymore.
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« Reply #156 on: October 05, 2008, 09:33:30 AM »

God, Did Brian run over your dog or something.
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Amy B.
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« Reply #157 on: October 05, 2008, 10:06:47 AM »

My point is, and obviously I haven't been articulating it effectively, is that, on this board and other BB/BW-related boards, it goes TOO MUCH both ways. God forbid there is any criticism, even honest, fair criticism, of Brian. But others aren't given the same prejudice.

I don't see criticism of Brian as being made into a problem except on the blueboard, where people are accutely aware that Brian might be watching. I don't know of any other board where it's not okay to criticize Brian. I think that when people start complaining about the criticism, it's because the criticism just seems relentless, like Brian can't do anything right. Then those same people can't do enough to praise Mike, like they're overcompensating both ways. Like, "Oh, I saw a Brian show in 2004, and he just sat there and waved his hands. And he didn't hit the high notes on God Only Knows very well. What happened to that beautiful falsetto? And even though the band played extremely well, somehow I detected that maybe they're getting tired. And the only rarities I heard were Sail On Sailor and Marcella. Come on, Brian. Time to hang it up. I'm done with Brian live." Then they see the Mike and Bruce show-- "I just saw the Beach Boys, and wow, what a show. Sure, Mike was kind of nasal, but he had fun, and so did the audience. The band took over a lot of the vocals that Mike can't handle, but that's okay. The band finally has a decent drummer! Mike winked at girls and told us to wave our cell phones around. He didn't mention Brian at all, but it was a great show! They even stopped the hits for a minute and played Sail on Sailor! Long live the Beach Boys!"

Double standard.
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carl r
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« Reply #158 on: October 05, 2008, 10:17:52 AM »

Dunno, people jumped on me on this board for having the temerity to suggest TLOS was less than perfect. Not to martyr myself - its a board on the internet for chrissakes, and nobody should get too upset - just that I thought I was being constructively critical.

This sort of hardened my attitude though. Surely when there is a favorite artist who releases a new product you can also think "If this was some person I'd never heard of, would I still buy, listen and like this album?" And for TLOS, my answer is a very half-hearted "I sort of guess so."

I don't really want a reunion or anything, but I agree with the Sheriff in some ways.
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Dancing Bear
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« Reply #159 on: October 05, 2008, 12:09:44 PM »

Double standards against Brian and pro Mike? I think my head will explode.  Grin
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« Reply #160 on: October 05, 2008, 12:21:45 PM »

I don't see criticism of Brian as being made into a problem except on the blueboard, where people are accutely aware that Brian might be watching.

Whoever's 'watching' on the Bloo, their initials sure aren't BDW.  Roll Eyes
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absinthe_boy
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« Reply #161 on: October 05, 2008, 12:31:04 PM »

As with any fan site/board, the people populating this site are likely to include some who are really fanatical in their support of Brian. If you criticise somebody's idol you get bitten.

This goes for any fan site, there are also people who will sometimes state their opinion as if it is fact. "Album X or TV episode Y are just awful"...but ther are bound to be people who disagree.

Personally I don't think Brian is the messiah, and there are strange things that sometimes happen in the Brian Wilson camp. Witness the "bad burrito" incident. We all ought to know that Brian isn't all he once was, and that he has good and bad days. But I do believe that he still has great music within him, and that TLOS is a great and cohesive album. But I can be OK if somebody disagrees -  as long as they come up with reasons for their opinion and state it as an opinion.

Just try going to a Doctor Who board..."Oh I wish every episode was like 'Love & Monsters' "........"Noooo that was crap, I think every one should be like 'The Empty Child' "......truth is you need a mixture of story styles in such a TV show and that musical artists have often come up with different styles of song throughout long careers.....and get this.....it is possible to love a music artist without liking 100% of everything they ever put out.
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John
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« Reply #162 on: October 05, 2008, 01:48:25 PM »

God, Did Brian run over your dog or something.

This is just a lame, rote non-point, all ways round. It's right up there as a credibility killer with "You're just jealous!" and "I'd like to see YOU make an album / movie / whatever!"
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The Heartical Don
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« Reply #163 on: October 06, 2008, 12:00:19 AM »

I don't see criticism of Brian as being made into a problem except on the blueboard, where people are accutely aware that Brian might be watching.

Whoever's 'watching' on the Bloo, their initials sure aren't BDW.  Roll Eyes
\

I thought so. I'd bet on MLW, or MDM, or both. I claim my $ 0.23 now. Through Paypal, please.
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Amy B.
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« Reply #164 on: October 06, 2008, 04:45:42 AM »

I don't see criticism of Brian as being made into a problem except on the blueboard, where people are accutely aware that Brian might be watching.

Whoever's 'watching' on the Bloo, their initials sure aren't BDW.  Roll Eyes

I don't see how anyone could have proof of that, short of observing Brian during times when "his" posts pop up on the board. Personally, I have no idea who is really posting in Brian's name-- Brian, Melinda or someone else. Regardless, the perception among many fans is that it's Brian, and therefore, they don't want to say anything that might hurt his feelings. When you look at it that way, it's like going up to Brian at a signing and saying, "Not your best show tonight, Brian, huh?" I think of it this way: Criticism is not the purpose of the blueboard-- or really anyone's fan board.
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The Heartical Don
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« Reply #165 on: October 06, 2008, 07:29:51 AM »

I don't see criticism of Brian as being made into a problem except on the blueboard, where people are accutely aware that Brian might be watching.

Whoever's 'watching' on the Bloo, their initials sure aren't BDW.  Roll Eyes

I don't see how anyone could have proof of that, short of observing Brian during times when "his" posts pop up on the board. Personally, I have no idea who is really posting in Brian's name-- Brian, Melinda or someone else. Regardless, the perception among many fans is that it's Brian, and therefore, they don't want to say anything that might hurt his feelings. When you look at it that way, it's like going up to Brian at a signing and saying, "Not your best show tonight, Brian, huh?" I think of it this way: Criticism is not the purpose of the blueboard-- or really anyone's fan board.


I appreciate your take on things. The Blueboard perhaps is a bit of a Fantasy Island, in that the sentimentality factor is more than maximal, and qualities like irony or humoristic sarcasm don't go down well and people may get banned for that (the sadly deceased Michael Lenz is an example of that).
By the way: your made-up 'comment' to Brian at a signing... I have a feeling in the back of my mind (sic) that Mike Love may actually have said that to Brian in the eighties many times...
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carl r
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« Reply #166 on: October 06, 2008, 08:22:05 AM »

That's cool, I don't want to take what you say out of context but there's a whole section on this board which is album reviews, so I guess that sort of means criticism from some people, especially in the case of Imagination or SIP.

I like reading that someone hates a song I love, and vice versa, this happens a lot here. The BBs covered a lot of ground culturally in their long existence. So we're all baggage that they picked up along their way (post-dated in many cases)

In terms of this, Brian's career is kind of a pleasant cul-de-sac which I guess people can take or leave (I like a lot of it, but I would say it's generally not vital or particularly relevant to how music's evolved, unlike his/their earlier stuff). And if people feel it's bringing them diminishing returns, well, it's their call, really.

I don't see criticism of Brian as being made into a problem except on the blueboard, where people are accutely aware that Brian might be watching.

Whoever's 'watching' on the Bloo, their initials sure aren't BDW.  Roll Eyes

I don't see how anyone could have proof of that, short of observing Brian during times when "his" posts pop up on the board. Personally, I have no idea who is really posting in Brian's name-- Brian, Melinda or someone else. Regardless, the perception among many fans is that it's Brian, and therefore, they don't want to say anything that might hurt his feelings. When you look at it that way, it's like going up to Brian at a signing and saying, "Not your best show tonight, Brian, huh?" I think of it this way: Criticism is not the purpose of the blueboard-- or really anyone's fan board.

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Magic Transistor Radio
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« Reply #167 on: October 06, 2008, 08:38:41 AM »

Double standards against Brian and pro Mike? I think my head will explode.  Grin

The only explaination that I would have is that people go to Brian's shows with sky high expectations. Instead of 10/10 they get 7/10 thus are disappointed. Then they go to Mike's show with very low excpectations. Instead of a 1/10 they get a 4/10. Thus they are thrilled.

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Mike Love autobiography (pg 242-243)
The Heartical Don
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« Reply #168 on: October 06, 2008, 10:54:33 AM »

Double standards against Brian and pro Mike? I think my head will explode.  Grin

The only explaination that I would have is that people go to Brian's shows with sky high expectations. Instead of 10/10 they get 7/10 thus are disappointed. Then they go to Mike's show with very low excpectations. Instead of a 1/10 they get a 4/10. Thus they are thrilled.



Hm. I went to the London Pet Sounds show in 2002. I didn't have any idea what to expect, apart from a few written hints of Americans who saw him with 55 piece orchestra in outdoor shows (hope I'm correct here). Prior to the show, I got somewhat disappointed after hearing that he'd bring a extended Wondermints backing band with him, but no symphony orchestra. I can honestly say that it was the finest show I ever saw (on a par with SMiLE, 2004, same venue). 10 out of 10, unqualified. Had you asked me before: 'what do you hope to hear?' and afterwards: 'what did you actually hear?', you'd see that both answers were/are absolutely equal.
Finest moment for me: when Brian took a brief rest whilst the band did 'Pet Sounds', the track. He'd turned his back on us and sat there, peacefully, and very obviously enjoying his achievement.
Finest. Moment. Ever.

(Next show that I'll attend: Van Dyke Parks with Inara George. Jealous? I thought so... Evil
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Dancing Bear
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« Reply #169 on: October 06, 2008, 11:13:07 AM »

The only explaination that I would have is that people go to Brian's shows with sky high expectations. Instead of 10/10 they get 7/10 thus are disappointed. Then they go to Mike's show with very low excpectations.
I don't know about those numbers, I've never been to a Brian Wilson concert. Anyway: Latter day Brian and too many expectations don't mix well. I agree with that.
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absinthe_boy
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« Reply #170 on: October 06, 2008, 12:29:25 PM »



I don't see how anyone could have proof of that, short of observing Brian during times when "his" posts pop up on the board. Personally, I have no idea who is really posting in Brian's name-- Brian, Melinda or someone else. Regardless, the perception among many fans is that it's Brian, and therefore, they don't want to say anything that might hurt his feelings. When you look at it that way, it's like going up to Brian at a signing and saying, "Not your best show tonight, Brian, huh?" I think of it this way: Criticism is not the purpose of the blueboard-- or really anyone's fan board.


For what it's worth, I have always assumed that it is Melinda or somebody else actually at the keyboard (she seems PC savvy)....but that she is actually talking to Brian at the time. I have always assumed that it is Brian's words, just that he's not typing.

Brian clearly does interact with fans, those phone calls for chairty were not faked after all. And I've never heard him say "I have a website? Jeez I never saw that!". So I expect he's aware of what goes on there...and of course, being his official board, nobody criticises too heavily. When "he" started posting about the master plan for SMiLE, I do not imagine for one moment that was posted without his say-so.

We do have no actual evidence either way, at least none that I recall. I don't think anyone has ever actually outright asked Brian in an interveiw, "Hey, those posts on the board...are they you or your wife/manager?". THat doesn't prove that Brian never views the board himself, never types his own messages. We simply don't know and have to draw likely conclusions from the available evidence.

However.....70% of my brain would trust AGD's opinion Smiley

I'm still somewhat disappointed by people's lack of understanding of depression as an illness. Brian will have to be poked in the right direction by those who live with him and love him. As Melinda fully admits, sometime in 1996 she said to him "Come on Brian, time to get your butt of the chair and play music". And you know what? With a depression sufferer that's sometimes how it is....for years on end. Trust me...and trust anyone who's ever lived with a partner suffering clinical depresion.
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The Heartical Don
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« Reply #171 on: October 06, 2008, 12:44:37 PM »

That's a really great call, absinthe_boy. You hit it on the head: chronic depression often is marked by what's known as 'catastrophic expectation'. That sounds louder than it actually is. What's meant by this is: the patient has very low expectations of what will be the outcome of his or her actions. Like in: 'oh, why should I bother, I am not that important, and if I try, it might fail miserably, and if people act as if I succeed, they might be simply cheating on me because they think I am a loser anyway and want to cheer me up a bit, but they don't like my efforts in reality, that's how it is and how it shall be forever...'. These thoughts often hijack the brain and feelings of a depressive, and are probably the cause of his avoidance behavior and procrastination. A terrible numbness makes the sufferer a true prisoner of his own negative thoughts and sensations.
It is, sad to say, almost impossible to break up the vicious circles and downward spiralings entirely. Well-tuned medication and gentle, caring prodding can do a lot, but the right balance is often found only after years of trying.

I think we must accept that non-depressives often can't emphathize like we'd want them to. Simply because they are used to see a task as something to be done and succeed in. Their worldview is profoundly different.
It is not really becoming, from a moral point of view, to mark persons as being 'normal' and 'abnormal', because there is no absolute standard. Yes, the depressive may have a distorted view on what he or she can accomplish and how much that accomplishment is worth in human terms. But then: one could also say that 'normal' folks have a wild and blissfully ignorant optimism about them in everyday life; and they aren't even vaguely aware of the sheer luck they have that not a single one of the, oh, 1 million fragile parameters that determine their life all of the time go terribly wrong at any given point in time.
There are no 'set truths' in these matters. And depression is a real illness, not a temporary 'dip' or 'whim'.
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theduke
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« Reply #172 on: October 06, 2008, 01:15:26 PM »

When Brian first started posting on his site, I told him there was no way we could be sure it was actually him (this was before the color-coding). So he asked for my phone number then called me...twice...on his birthday! He told me that Melinda reads messages to him, and he dictates responses to for her to type.

 Cool pwh
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Amy B.
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« Reply #173 on: October 06, 2008, 02:10:14 PM »

He told me that Melinda reads messages to him, and he dictates responses to for her to type.

 Cool pwh

Yes, he has said that more than once. He said he doesn't know how to use a computer or apparently want to learn, so Melinda does the typing as he dictates. And this seems reasonable. Once, someone posted and Melinda said hello to the person, only under Brian's name. Some people used this as proof that Melinda was posting without Brian's knowledge, as Brian. Someone questioned her, and she said, "It's me typing, but Brian's words. I just wanted to say hello." I don't see any reason to doubt that, and I can totally see Brian VERY occasionally wanting to see what the fans are saying. I would think a message board is a welcome way for him to interact with the fans-- totally not threatening. And obviously he knows the board exists... the Katrina calls started that way, and I can assure you it was him on the phone. He's not THAT out of it. He did claim in a recent interview that he had never heard of his Web site. I assume it was just one of those weird misunderstandings or blips.
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« Reply #174 on: October 06, 2008, 06:28:00 PM »

Heartical Don, that's such an excellent point.

The issue, such as there has ever been an issue, is a simple one. Brian is mentally ill. Because that doesn't present as any other illness or disability would (a pianist missing an arm would only be able to play with one hand, for instance), people so often mistrust him and the people around him.

I think, honestly, everyone is trying their best. Does greed and manipulation enter the picture? Maybe at times and with certain people. They enter the picture in virtually all human affairs. But I have always been inclined to give BW and those around him the benefit of the doubt. Even Landy, at certain points. It's an imperfect situation, filled with imperfect people. The result will likely be imperfect.
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